Pyra-tan?


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Løra (Lolla) said:
Sexism is unacceptable on every level in every way.
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While I agree on this, I dont see where there are sexism in this thread. Okay, there's a few drawing showing imaginary girls wearing reveling clothes. But I would say : so what ? It's not as if one cannot walk across a girl wearing clothes that reveling. I surely see girls reveling as much every summer in Paris.


Beside, it's not as if using cute girls was *not* used to boost sales everywhere. You're going to see this in cars show, but you're also going to see them in ad for women products or even died ads.


If the few drawing posted in this thread are sexist, then the *whole* advertizing and commercial industries are sexists. and then, what to think about such ad :

<img src=https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/98/59/77/9859773aacbc9d2f5553c21858eda2b3.jpg />

?


Once men also are displayed in underwears, it's not sexist anymore to show a girl in underwears : men are treated the same ways girls are.


Which leave us with this : the only one seeing something sexists here are the one seeing anythig related to sex in theses images...There's none. It's just an image adjusted to the current society we're not living in the 19th centuary anymore...
 
Løra (Lolla) said:
@sebt3: But I do think sexism is used in advertising and marketing - for both males and females (more often females); that doesn't make it morally or ethically right.
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But somehow I don't feel offended by all these (half)naked and muscular men in advertisings at all. ;)   No, I'm not gay. ^^"


Please don't forget that morality, ethics, and the overall definition of what "sexism" really is, varies very much for everyone. You feel offended by alot of things that shows sexy females etc. I can accept that. But I don't like to be put into an sexism corner just because I like such things. This feels like people who like the fictional anime/manga culture  in general are put in the same place like real sexism and anti-female people or even worse real life subjects. Not fair. There is alot of shadings between these things. And at least for drawings I'm very tolerant when it comes to how females are drawn. I prefer the tough ones though.  


Reality is another thing of course but you can't forbid any girl to show what she want's IF she wants it (we hade the cosplay discussion recently). Again, people and their opinions are very different and we are not supposed to speak for everyone.


Overall I agree that there is alot of sexualisation in the advertising and commercial industry. I also don't like the reduction of people to only "objects"  but I personaly never see woman as objects (I just can't understand stuff like Kantai Collection -WTF!?! XD ). I would also prefer more decent erotic and less plain sexualisation (big difference!).
 
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I would agree that sexism is unacceptable, but I fail to see how any of the images in this thread are sexist.
is this sexist:


http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/deathbattle/images/0/06/Deadpool.jpg.png/revision/latest?cb=20141128192136
or this:
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/9/93770/2364796-snes_streetfighteriiturbo.jpg


Is every female cartoon character objectification, why not? If it's their outfit what do they need to wear to not be objectified, a burka?
I just don't follow the logic
 
I actually find these images less offensive than images of popular macho male game characters.


I feel quite insulted by the glorification of these architypes... but do I go around complaining? (oh well I guess I do sometimes )


Where I draw the line is where people come in and tell me that how I see things or how I choose to express my perspectives is somehow wrong.


Really REALLY?


You don't like how I think? You don't like what I do?


Well feckoff and put your attention elsewhere... because my universe, my rules.


Go live in your own universe.


I promise to leave you to your own reality, provided you don't piss me off.


Humans and your sexuality... what a cess pitt of insecure drama.


Adjust your perspectives to be more tolerant.


I had no choice but to do it or kill myself from my miserable sense of the wrongness of everything. It's just juvenile attempting to change the world 'to be a better place'.


The world is the world


It's both loads of fun and full of shit.


Get used to it, and take a shower when you get too stinky...


If that is too much to ask... go find another planet.
 
@ Faeminx: Firstly,  I stated my opinion; I didn't call you anything, per se.


Secondly; if everybody didn't bother to at least try and make the world a better place, then we'd be back to fascism and slavery and women that couldn't vote etc. I don't see how voicing my opinion and speaking up about things that offend me, is anything bad or annoying. So kindly don't be rude, be tolerant to the fact I have an opinion and that I have expressed that said opinion. Also, you're flying off the handle when this discussion was about a mascot, and I agreed with why these sort of pics should not be used as a mascot.  As benoitb basically said; if it offends then it probably shouldn't be used. This is an open topic in a thread that is discussed by the community for the community.  I have every right to speak up and say what I would like to say, without having to worry about a backlash. Thank you. 
 
If I were 100% myself.... absolutely everyone would take offense.  ;)


I guess you took my post personally as if it were directed at you. I'm sorry to say, but that *is* something to worry about.


I've been called rude before. It happens when I couldn't be bothered with tippy toes.


But with enough tippy toes I can express anything I like in a politically correct manner.


Limitation of perspective and subsequent censorship is highly irritating.


I Am an artist, in my work, my life, in everything I do.... thank GOD I'm provocative.
 
Løra (Lolla) said:
More objectification of women - which is actually a form of sexism indeed. But I'm getting the feeling that that is the 'norm' for the males in this community too.
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It's not objectification unless you make it serve that pourpse or shoehorn it into appearing that way. Which as was stated several times before - is not the intention of what's being presented here.


Had these images were created with sexist intentions at mind, why wouldn't the artists just pose the girls in a more sexual position or dress them in more bluntly revealing clothes (yes that could have been a thing) that would escentally classify the images as Ecchi? 


Instead (as i see it at least), the girls in the images have their own (cyber/techno/rave-like) style which represent the Pandora using a human-form in a (seperate) vision different from what our commonly-mutual reality looks like. They're not presented in an environment that forces them into becoming sexual subjects, serve as a sexist propoganda of any sort or be used as anything other than the anthropomorphic women they are, that being pretty girls as Pandora-like characters - not sex objects by any stretch.

Løra (Lolla) said:
this discussion was about a mascot,
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Again, that's not the pourpse here (read what i posted before for more details). The idea behind the thread is to have an Artistic vision of what the Pyra might look like if it were represented in human form, which was demonstrated in a general (and loose) example using a previous vision of human-like Pandora girls.
 
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@FaeMinx: my replying to your post worries you? Oh dear, best not to post in a public forum then. I replied from my point of view - not taken personally, but on the behalf of anyone you basically told to "feck off" as you so eloquently put it lol. Also, I've looked at your past artwork and I rather liked them, personally.                                                                                                                                                                          


                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Now back on topic, because this is getting ever-so-slightly irritating and tedious. You know my opinion on what we were debating. I stand by it. Kindly take note of it from a female member of this community and an individual - I can't speak on behalf of all the females of the world, just myself.  End of.                                                                                                              


                                                                                                                                                                                                        As a mascot; like it's been said a few times before - I thought the Dragonbox dragon was a mascot. Also, I think a creature of some sort would be better suited for the community - male and female :). Faeminx makes some good creature like pics.


Edit: Darn, please excuse my post. My phone messed up the layout of my post :p
 
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Why thank you!  :D


Not really wanting to argue, except to say that if you are responding to my post on behalf of *everyone* that it may be directed at.... then I stand by my post as you stand by your opinion. 


As far as I am concerned, we are all pieces of art.


I have a voice. It speaks.


Hear my language.


Or don't.


As a matter of pure educational interest, you should note that the subject matter of my post was directed at the manner of being.... not directly taking any stance on the matter to which you are so offended... except to call the entire scope of it a 'cesspit of insecure drama'.


I was leveling an attack at perspective itself.


If your particular perspective is so important, then by all means defend it.


You are what you choose to be in this world.


You are what you choose to see in this world.


End of.


In ref. to potential mascots... I wouldn't presume... I have a unique view that I will take great pleasure in expressing - perhaps to the delight of the community, perhaps to distaste and disapproval....


Either which way, I am doing it.


;)
 
Løra (Lolla) said:
@ Faeminx: Firstly,  I stated my opinion; I didn't call you anything, per se.


Secondly; if everybody didn't bother to at least try and make the world a better place, then we'd be back to fascism and slavery and women that couldn't vote etc. I don't see how voicing my opinion and speaking up about things that offend me, is anything bad or annoying. So kindly don't be rude, be tolerant to the fact I have an opinion and that I have expressed that said opinion. Also, you're flying off the handle when this discussion was about a mascot, and I agreed with why these sort of pics should not be used as a mascot.  As benoitb basically said; if it offends then it probably shouldn't be used. This is an open topic in a thread that is discussed by the community for the community.  I have every right to speak up and say what I would like to say, without having to worry about a backlash. Thank you. 
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You have never been on topic in this thread. This was NEVER, NEVER, at any point about attempting to craft an "one mascot to rule them all™" to be splayed across all advertising and to dominate. I never mentioned anything of the sort. I never said "mascot" at all. This WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A THREAD ABOUT A CERTAIN TYPE OF HARMLESS FAN ART(do you understand what that means?), You and several others hijacked the thread and decided to use it as your podium to advance the GRAND, ObViOuSlY ONGOING STRUGGLE FOR GENDER EQUALITY AND WOMEN'S RIGHTS... If you so truly feel so severely oppressed, what the hell are you doing here complaining about and perverting someone else's forum thread? I don't know how it works where you live, but perhaps you should be airing your grievances with your local government. If you are serious about your struggle, take it seriously yourself and deal with it in an appropriate manner. Otherwise, you shouldn't ever expect to be taken seriously, it makes you seem like an SJW...
 
I'm fairly certain that I recall one pandora-tan which, in an effort to add a keyboard to her (as that is a distinguishing feature of the pandora) the author added breasts - one for each key on the keyboard. Can't find the original thread, but it really was pathetic.


And if that's not sexually orientated, I don't know what is.


Sexism and the objectification of women is unacceptable, not because it's wrong in and of itself, but because it teaches males that women are there for their use and gratification. A woman may act like a total slut when in private with a man that she has chosen to be with, but that's her choice - the male does not dictate how she should dress or behave. By removing the onslaught of media-based and societal sexism, we can start to teach young males that women may choose to do whatever they want, and they will grow up to be responsible adults that are not a threat to females. 


By creating images of women in clothing of dubious utility, with unrealistic proportions and attitudes that are plainly there to serve men, we're sending the wrong message and preventing women from taking their place in society as our equals. They've been fighting for this for many decades now, and it's time we started to support them rather than view them merely as things to take pleasure in.


D.
 
ZXDunny said:
I'm fairly certain that I recall one pandora-tan which, in an effort to add a keyboard to her (as that is a distinguishing feature of the pandora) the author added breasts - one for each key on the keyboard. Can't find the original thread, but it really was pathetic.


And if that's not sexually orientated, I don't know what is.


Sexism and the objectification of women is unacceptable, not because it's wrong in and of itself, but because it teaches males that women are there for their use and gratification. A woman may act like a total slut when in private with a man that she has chosen to be with, but that's her choice - the male does not dictate how she should dress or behave. By removing the onslaught of media-based and societal sexism, we can start to teach young males that women may choose to do whatever they want, and they will grow up to be responsible adults that are not a threat to females. 


By creating images of women in clothing of dubious utility, with unrealistic proportions and attitudes that are plainly there to serve men, we're sending the wrong message and preventing women from taking their place in society as our equals. They've been fighting for this for many decades now, and it's time we started to support them rather than view them merely as things to take pleasure in.


D.
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No argument.


Except that I take offense at having to choose between


'support them or view them merely as things to take pleasure in'.


I don't take pleasure in them, or males... but I also refuse to support their struggle. (or anyone's)
 
ZXDunny said:
I'm fairly certain that I recall one pandora-tan which, in an effort to add a keyboard to her (as that is a distinguishing feature of the pandora) the author added breasts - one for each key on the keyboard. Can't find the original thread, but it really was pathetic.


And if that's not sexually orientated, I don't know what is.


D.
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CONGRATULATIONS! You managed to recall one example to suit your view... I HIGHLY doubt ANYONE was championing THAT image back then..I bet it was REMOVED for being inappropriate. What does that have to do with THIS thread?? You are reaching...

Moxie said:
Amen.
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Amen? To what? Why? :huh:
 
Løra (Lolla) said:
 As benoitb basically said; if it offends then it probably shouldn't be used. 
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This is really what it comes down to.  We already have people that said they are uncomfortable with it.  There are possibly others that have not spoken up.  


It doesn't matter if any of you feel the depictions are sexist or not.  Some current members are bothered by this.  Potential future members interested in the Pyra may also feel uncomfortable with them.  Unless the goal is to drive away these people it is probably best to avoid having them on public display.  Just because you like something, or want to say/show/share something, doesn't mean this is the best place for it (I tone down my shit and avoid discussing many things because they will offend others).  


If you want to work on these pics together you can do it in PM.  If you feel that is to restricting then continue here, but understand that they offend some people.  Don't be surprised when these people say so.  Understand that it will have a negative impact on future users and participation in these forums.


Intent doesn't matter.  If others are offended/uncomfortable does.
 
ImmaculateChimp said:
CONGRATULATIONS! You managed to recall one example to suit your view... I HIGHLY doubt ANYONE was championing THAT image back then..I bet it was REMOVED for being inappropriate. What does that have to do with THIS thread?? You are reaching...


Amen? To what? Why? :huh:
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That was the most extreme, but neither of the images posted so far are acceptable as the face of the Pyra (nor were they acceptable for the Pandora) for the reasons I stated. You might like to look at those sorts of images. There's nothing wrong with that, what goes on in the privacy of your own head is your affair. There were many, many others in the original GP2X forum that were as bad.


I suspect that the "Amen" was agreeing with my reasoning. By creating and distributing these images you're promoting the idea that females are here to serve and pleasure males. And that is wrong.


D.
 
rygD said:
Intent doesn't matter.  If others are offended/uncomfortable does.
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This discussion offends me. Please remove and never show it to the public again.
Oh wait, I shouldn't go around and tell people what to post? 
As long as it doesn't break the forum rules (I'd love to quote them, but I seriously can't find a link to them), no one here is in the position to tell them to not post their art. It's seriously not my problem if you get offended by all anime-styled art, no matter how tame it is.
Next is that we're not allowed to draw female characters, but wait, that would be sexist again, wouldn't it?
 
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