Promoting The Pandora Via Youtube

[WizardStan]

I think that on the emulators front the ipod defence should be used, if emulation (ie playing your old games) is illegal, then so is copying your old CDs, tapes and records on to an ipod and playing them on that.
Making a copy of a game can successfully be defended as a backup or... I forget the proper word; alternate platform something or other? So you can continue to use your original content on modern systems.
It's the downloading of a ROM (even if you own the original) that's in question, with some very good arguments as to why it is illegal.
Just like you say, moving music off CD to iPod is legal: you own the CD, you can copy that CD and put it onto your iPod. However, ripping a CD you own is different from downloading a song off the internet from a CD you own, and falls back into the legally questionable area.

 

[Esn]

DOS games and SCUMM games would be safe to show off, though.

The trouble with console games is that downloading a ROM is pretty much the only way people are going to be able to get them, even if they do own the originals, whereas with DOS games the files can easily be transferred over by anyone.

 

[Tom`]

that's in question, with some very good arguments as to why it is illegal.
Just like you say, moving music off CD to iPod is legal: you own the CD, you can copy that CD and put it onto your iPod. However, ripping a CD you own is different from downloading a song off the internet from a CD you own, and falls back into the legally questionable area.

In the US, at least, though, you can still run into problems if the game/media is encumbered with any kind of copy protection, because then you're breaking the DMCA. Most games for old systems probably wouldn't be a problem, but PSX games could be defined that way (see the thread on ripping PSX games for more information), and probably other systems too (I think there may be a few SNES games, also), enough that Sony/Nintendo could probably make trouble if they felt it was worthwhile.

 

[christo930]

that's in question, with some very good arguments as to why it is illegal.
Just like you say, moving music off CD to iPod is legal: you own the CD, you can copy that CD and put it onto your iPod. However, ripping a CD you own is different from downloading a song off the internet from a CD you own, and falls back into the legally questionable area.

In the US, at least, though, you can still run into problems if the game/media is encumbered with any kind of copy protection, because then you're breaking the DMCA. Most games for old systems probably wouldn't be a problem, but PSX games could be defined that way (see the thread on ripping PSX games for more information), and probably other systems too (I think there may be a few SNES games, also"], enough that Sony/Nintendo could probably make trouble if they felt it was worthwhile.[/quote]The worst part of this whole thing is that the emulators have made the big boys many millions of dollars.
It was pc emulators that showed the labels how much interest there is in the older content and told them exactly what consumers wanted and when they delivered, they got rich.
You could see the same thing with mp3's. The year that Napster was really big was one of the biggest years the music industry ever had. Many people were turned on to music they would have NEVER had otherwise heard and then went out and bought cd's, concert tickets, memorabilia...
They never stop shooting themselves in the foot.

Nevertheless, it would probably pay to be very cautious.

Chris

 

[PokeParadox]

DOS games and SCUMM games would be safe to show off, though.

The trouble with console games is that downloading a ROM is pretty much the only way people are going to be able to get them, even if they do own the originals, whereas with DOS games the files can easily be transferred over by anyone.

Not true... there are those amongst us that do actually prefer to make our own dumps...

 

[PoisonedV]

DOS games and SCUMM games would be safe to show off, though.

The trouble with console games is that downloading a ROM is pretty much the only way people are going to be able to get them, even if they do own the originals, whereas with DOS games the files can easily be transferred over by anyone.

Not true... there are those amongst us that do actually prefer to make our own dumps...

Even if you have proper equipment, why? what's the benefits to it? and even still, the amount of people who do do that is such an extremely small minority its not a worthy defense

 

[danielliu88888]

earthbound! nintendo can't make anymore money from it, and we can spite them for not releasing it on virtual console or something. earthbound zero too, it was never released, nintendo can't make any money from that too.

 

[valhalla]

Ok, this might blow your mind, but Emulation is pretty much piracy.
I know someone is going to come on here and say 'but you're allowed a backup of stuff you own, this stuff is just for novelty purposes, thats just a serving suggestion man!' but I don't honestly think that many people have a complete snes/genesis/neogeo/gba games selection .

not everybody who emulates keeps a complete collection of every game for the platform; many just keep on playing their old favorites, and they own the original games. And with dos games and consoles that used CDs instead of cartriges, there is no real need to download roms, either, since the game files can be easily ripped with commonly available hardware.

there are no games whose copyright has expired, at least in countries that signed the Berne convention: the minimum term is author life + 50 years and there are no computer games older than 50 years

 

[Game_over]

Emulation in general is legal, reverse engineering is legal. downloading unauthorized copyrighted media is illegal from a third party, (however is protected by more of a fence rather then a wall.....think the boarder of Mexico). Now that said, let's be honest, at the end of the day people well get what they want and the best companies can do is either slow it down or embrace it while finding alternative or creative means to turn does eyeballs into money. (rule number one- the consumer always win)

I agree Craig the that would be a pretty weak defense on your part, and I would stay away from showing any psx games especially now, Sony Computer Entertainment holds more PSX titles then you guys think (and when I say that I mean including even many third party via deals) and they will be released on the Playstation Store, most notably for the new version of the PSP being announce during E3. I'll probably say more on the issue later, but heading to bed for now.

Cheers,

 

[MaxSteiner]

Ok, this might blow your mind, but Emulation is pretty much piracy.
I know someone is going to come on here and say 'but you're allowed a backup of stuff you own, this stuff is just for novelty purposes, thats just a serving suggestion man!' but I don't honestly think that many people have a complete snes/genesis/neogeo/gba games selection .

not everybody who emulates keeps a complete collection of every game for the platform; many just keep on playing their old favorites, and they own the original games. And with dos games and consoles that used CDs instead of cartriges, there is no real need to download roms, either, since the game files can be easily ripped with commonly available hardware.

This issue isn't that important when you're just pirating/emulating old stuff where the copyright has run out, or is unlikely to be enforced, (..."]

there are no games whose copyright has expired, at least in countries that signed the Berne convention: the minimum term is author life + 50 years and there are no computer games older than 50 years[/quote]
Ok, first of all, I predicted someone would spout exactly what you're saying, and its tosh to be honest
You're hypothetical person who only emulates games he owns, rips his own roms etc, etc represents such a small portion of the market, that you cqannot honestly use it to deny wrong doing.

Secondly, copyright needs to be enforced to remain in effect.
Games produced by companies which are no longer in existance, are unlikely to be enforced, and hence are out of copyright as far as I understand it.

 

[WizardStan]

Secondly, copyright needs to be enforced to remain in effect
No it doesn't. Copyright is always in effect and can be enforced whenever and however the copyright holder decides. If the original copyright owner no longer exists, the copyright is moved to any possible heir that wants to fight over it. Eventually it becomes property of the government (who can still charge you with copyright infringement if it so desires), until 50 years passes and it becomes public.
Trademark needs to be enforced to remain in effect, and that's only if they're aware of the violation.

 

[BaDToaD]

I may be stating the obvious here but aren't there plenty of open source apps and games to showcase the Pandora's capabilities. If anyone is impressed they'll do the digging to find out more and discover the emulation possibilities for themselves.

ToaD

Quick Edit before I get back to work. What about showing off emulators with PD roms instead. You can always include a disclaimer along the lines of. We are unable to show commercial roms running on the emulators due to copyright etc etc.

There's nothing stopping other users posting vids of commercial roms running.

Just a thought

 

[haptagud]

In the UK it is still illegal to rip your own CD's to your iPod.

Though I have no idea what the law says about other media, such as playing a "backup" of a game you own via emulation...
As ToaD says the open source catalog is large.

/

 

[fusion_power]

-use a tripod
-shoot the Videos in a neutral, clean environment, "white room" a huge table or something like this so the focus is clearly onto the Pandora.
-Videos showing cathegories: a video shows Pandora doing "Desktop" Applications (with full Keyboard action) Drawing, Writing, browsing...another Video shows Multimedia skills, Music, Videos, Pictures... the focus should be more onto freeware/Homebrew games and ports, instead of Emulators.
-a clearly visible FPS display (MHz too if possible) when games/emu's are running is always a good Idea...
-not forgetting to mention the Battery runtime when playing or listening music...

 

[quartercast]

Yay, welcome to the biannual copyright debate thread!

Please insert random scaremongering here --->|

 

[Poem58]

I agree Craig you should be cautious about what you show in the promo video's. Right now in the U.S. The MPAA is arguing that ripping a DVD for classroom use is illegal. But if a teacher wants to use DVD footage they are welcome to set up a camera on a tripod and record the video from a TV.

Also, the RIAA still to this day claims that ripping your personal CD for playback on your Mp3 player is illegal. In their view you should have to purchase the digital versions of that album from legal digital music sales site. Obviously they cannot control this which is the only reason they cannot stop it. However they were able to stop Napster and others when they had no legal solution available.

Also aside from the MPAA and RIAA ,most game companies including Sony and Nintendo have publicly (sometimes in game packaging etc.) maintained the position that copying a game even for your own personal backup is NOT legal. Making any kind of ROM illegal. Like CD's however this also could not be controlled. But if you start showing off the fact that someone can play a Playstation game while Sony is trying to sell PSP's to sell more PS1 games or that you can play SNES etc. while Nintendo is using those games on GBA/DS. I could see that as being an advertisement for a powerful computer designed to thwart the need for their systems.

If you were to post say a Dreamcast game, maybe, you might be OK. Depends if Sega would want to port or are selling for another console. Kinda a gray area there. Still not wise to connect it to the sales of the device anyway.

Please let's play it safe. Once the Pandora is in our hands, with TV out, You wil get all the press you need about emulation on Youtube especially seeing the progress these talented coders have made without even having the full power hardware.

Brilliant, these coders are - Yoda.

 

[mosschops]

i would be tempted to go with the channel idea and have various people using/demo the pandora aimed at different markets

for starters there are plenty of spectrum, c64, cpc, amiga, ST, pcdos games that are available for free as rom/disk/tape images to the general public, these can be used for demoing emulators for starters.
Show some email use either via a client or through a web browser.
Lets see an RSS/twitter client being used.
lets see some youtube, iplayer, divx video being played. it only needs to be seconds just to show it working.
lets see/hear mp3 playing with it using standard playlist files (for the higher level user you can use the same video but VO something like.. "this is using xx DAC, yy speaker at such, with such output per headphone. product zz uses this DAC also)
lets see a couple of simple standard doc types viewed and/or edited.

There is nothing wrong with shooting footage and making 2 or 3 videos aimed at : joe public, gamers who flood boards begging for roms & more discerning gamers who know that if x and y can be emulated then sms/gg/megadrive can be emulated also.
There is nowt wrong with showing off Amiga emulators and stating that emulator x and y(ps1 or whatever) is running (x and y can be shown in the channel but not from OP Ltd).

it would be nice to see (for instance) a mouse plugged in, a joystick plugged in and configured, something running then plugging in tv/out with voice overs saying that of course you can have 2 joypads and plug it into the tv, saying that it works on the amiga (look). with that then backed up by someone else showing a 2 joypad setup playing puzzle bobble or whetever.

 

[craigix]

I think some of those ideas could be put in the 'Introduction to Pandora'

Got 10mins to get the message across.

A little about the history of the machine, what it can do, and why it is unique.

We could cover games, wifi, web, docs, the size, the usb. Yeah. This is sounding good.

 

[dflemstr]

I think some of those ideas could be put in the 'Introduction to Pandora'

Got 10mins to get the message across.

A little about the history of the machine, what it can do, and why it is unique.

We could cover games, wifi, web, docs, the size, the usb. Yeah. This is sounding good.

Sounds good, but such a video would of course draw all the media attention available to it, so if you make such a video, think about:
- Video and audio quality: no breathing in the mic P), no background-buzzing from the camera, have a neutral background (a white/light blue sheet for example)
- Professional video transitions and effects, no MovieMaker-style transitions please
- A very clear overview about what you cover in the video (introduction image with all the topics covered, clear indications that you're moving on to the next topic, no anecdotes that don't belong, etc)
- Make a script (the non-computer kind) or something before filming.

I'm sure you're already aware of this; just making sure, since it's almost a commercial we're talking about here so it has to be good to make any positive difference.

 

[craigix]

Well, I'll probably keep it quirky, otherwise it's going to look like everything else. But I'll also make it look more professional.