[poll] Vote For Nulldc Dreamcast Emulator On Pandora!

Do you want to see the nullDC Dreamcast emulator on the pandora?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 2 100.0%
  • No! - I just dont want it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No! - I don''t think its possible / reasonable

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2

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'ZeZu' said:
Since everyone is concerned about the analogs, most games use them as nothing more than on/off, so emulating them on a digital button is ok. For other games, it will still work, but you wont get as much control out of them.
Just wanted to add that I am absolutely thrilled that you are trying to port/code a DC-Emulator! It's just that I like the game "Hitman" on the Dreamcast very much and it would be really hard to play without analogue shoulderbuttons, but there are plenty of other games to play. When my Pandora arrives, I'll gladly donate a few euros. Thank you very much for your future work, people like you make the gaming controls on this device worthwhile.
 
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'Miknal' said:
Why would anyone not want the dc ported? They don't have to play it.

Are people worried about attracting dreamcast fans? Do they smell?

People on this forum confused me :/
The most sensible and interesting post I've seen on the topic. So I'll try to at least partially consider it and maybe address some of it, as best I can.

People are strange, and trying to understand their motivations can be tricky even when they state what they believe their motivations to be. It's so tricky that there's at least an entire industry surrounding human minds - but the first point, I feel, should be that the OP *invited* "No" answers. In fact in the first poll there are 3 possible answers and 2 of them are negative. So I think we should first question why the OP invited negative answers.

It would appear TO ME that by splitting the "No" answer into two options the OP is trying to understand the potential audience without making a simple poll into an entire survey. Instead of a simple "yes/no" we now actually have a "maybe" - in essence one of the so-called "No" options is almost a dare... as in "I DARE you to make a DreamCast emu that's actually playable - because you can't! So Ner!". In many cases even a childishly opaque dare is sufficient to provoke the "I so CAN do that! And to prove it, I will!" response. The OP is definatley looking IMHO to interpret such "No" votes as a "Dare You Yes". Without that option, people who thought the Pandora (or the emu writers) not up to the task could have been counted as more negative than they actually are. Wouldn't it be lovely to have them gleefully eating their own hats while they play their favourite DreamCast game?

The "No" vote seems similarly qualified with "I don't want it". So it really IS, it seems to me, aimed at people who do not, themselves, want a DreamCast emulator for the Pandora. Why are they reading this thread anyway? Who knows - possibly out of boredom with Pandoras not available, perhaps they wish to see news of ANY progress that suggests they may have a Pandora soon or... dunno. There is no "No, I don't want anyone to have a DreamCast emulator purely out of spite" so such people COULD use the 2No I don't want one" option as that does pertain to their situation. The poll is nicely geared towards attaining information without encouraging a negative attitude IMHO.

As to why the OP wants statistics on who wants a DC emu vs who does not, we don't know. My best guess would be that they would (or could) use such statistics to guide them on how many Pandora owners actually want a DC emulator - after all, if 95% of respondants said "No and only 5% aid "yes", then they could probably save themselves some time, effort, and sggro by not porting NullDC to Pandora. On the other hand, if they got 90% "no you can't do it", 5% "No I don't want it" and 5% "Yes" they could work to turn that 90% into "Yes, wow, that's FAR better than I thought possible".

If we leave out the second, financial, poll (at least for now) then we're left with the voters. Why might someone vote "No"?

Well, of course, there could be some people who just vote to be contrary, or for "fun"... but also they could vote to answer the poll as honestly as possible as a favour to the OP. They really might not think it technically possible, or just might not want one themselves.

If 50% of the voters were to vote "No - I don't want one" that means that from the first batch of Pandoras, at least, that proportionally there's an apparent MAXIMUM client base" of 1500-2000 people for Pandora NullDC.

If we open up examination of the financial poll then we see other potential reasons for a "No" vote. "The Devs might get one or more machines for free even though *I* have to pay for mine?" could be an axcellent reason for a "No" vote, especially since there is no GUARANTEE that a Pandora NullDC would run games at fullspeed. Another "good" reason might be the fear that the OP would be sent one (or more?) early "first batch" Pandoras - shuffling paying customers down the queue. There has been a LOT of angst about retaining position in the order queue, so I imagine this could be quite a serious contender as reasons go. Either reason could elicit a "No" response as a way of trying to retain the status quo.

But for the most part, although I think the above is REASONABLY reasoned out, I suspect people who vote "No" will do so for their own many and varied reasons. I'm slightly more interested in the opposite question - why SHOULDN'T someone vote "No" if that's the vote they are inclined towards? Because some posts in this thread feel like they are suggesting that. This thread, by its title, is already slanted in the pro-DC direction, so to NOT post "No" if that is their honest feeling would slant the statistics even further. To encourage "No" voters to not vote and just buffer off instead (paraphrasing) would smack of "rigging the voting" - the OP requested negative votes, IMHO we shouldn't skew what will already be self-selecting votes to a large degree.
 
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I'm sorry, but asking if you want to see a particular emulator or not on the Pandora is quite strange.

You want to discourage emulator authors from bringing emulators that other people that DO want them to not make them, when it totally doesn't harm or effect the people that do not want them on the Pandora if there is one?

There is nothing good that could come from a poll like this.

The second sub poll is ok though, but they have beagleboards anyway. :p

EDIT: Ok, I realize now thanks to the post below this poll was made by one of the NullDC-devs? What's the world coming to. :p
 
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Lets have a quick look at the stats

First poll - over 200 users want a Dreamcast emulator for Pandora

Second poll - nearly 200 users are saying either the devs get one of the un-used boards or get a pandora via user contributions

At least thats what the stats look like to me anyways

To me the figures look like 80% ish in favour in each poll
 
I'd like to see Phantasy Star Online demoed sometime. Also, is there any possibility that network play will be available down the line with this emulator? I know that at least Phantasy Star used dedicated servers when it was still alive, but people also found ways of hosting their own games and creating a redirect to these self hosted servers.

Anyway, I'm close to donating at this point, I'd just like to see a little bit more video of this emulator on a beagleboard before I send in some cash.
 
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'RajTakhar' said:
To me the figures look like 80% ish in favour in each poll
Yup - an overwhelmingly positive response - and if you consider that not everyone visits this forum or reads every thread or votes, that 80% (ish) could be taken to represent a good deal more than the 200 ish voters. It would SEEM to imply that we have up to 80% of the Pandora owners in favour, so it's some unknowable scale between 200 and 2800 people (so far) that are likely to think porting NullDC would be a good thing. As stas go, not bad at all IMHO :)
 
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Spirit said:
Right, one more vote for "No! - I just dont want it" then.
Out of curiosity then, what made you change your mind? You said you didn't care a few days ago, now you're set against it.
 
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@Monk, your post is both thoughtfull and amusing, however i think you very much overthought that out. Even to be "reasonably reasoned", the original post was definitely not well thought out, and was mostly just to see some real numbers and interest. Which I've stated previously.

@MDave, yes i was the poster, and I am one of two nullDC developers..
Why does a poll has to be silly/not usefull? Just because its not usefull to you personally? The first question in the poll is of personal interest for me/us, the second one goes back to a discussion based on another post about the emulator.

@All:
I think many of you have some knowledge of at least a bit of the process involved in an emulator, development in general, or can appreciate someones time and effort. In fact cost of development of something like this on a commercial basis would run well over $250k USD (and i do mean WELL over). If you dont believe this, check base pay for professional developers, and stats on how long something like this takes in development.. do the math. 10 developers @ $40/hr * 10months = ~$400k ! nullDC is many years in development for the two of us, and it is _freeware_ for all to enjoy.

So if it disturbs anyone too greatly i'll ask one of the mods to remove this entire thread ... but the data the poll collects is of interest to us, and is encouragement for something that takes a great amount of my time/patience/sanity and much more.

The "free" pandora is not at all a big deal, and a lot less "free" when you look at it in perspective that a weeks work could buy more than one of them, yet it will take many many weeks of work before this is playable on the pandora.. really its more like slave labor but i enjoy the challenge and appreciate the fact that it will be used.
 
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Over 87% of voters say bring it, around 80% also say that you should be sent some hardware. Don't let a couple of naysayers get you down. ;)

The only people who thought the poll was silly, hadn't yet realised that a NullDC dev started it. As mentioned earlier we have had a -lot- of useless polls from non-devs who thought an N64 emulator would magically appear if they started a thread about it. I know I speak for at least 87% of people when I say -this- thread is welcome to stay. :D
 
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Regarding the analog shoulder buttons, it should be possible to control speed in racing games by releasing the button temporarily when you want to slow down. I admittedly do not own THAT many DC games (just a dozen or so, including a few racing titles), but I can not think of one where this would be an issue.

If you are still taking requests for videos, I would be interested in seeing an RPG. Maybe Grandia II. I would imagine that RPGs would be playable even if the frame rate was quite low.

I wish you a lot of luck in this project fellas, and I will be looking forward to it, though unfortunately I do not have money to spare these days.
 
helping developers has proved to be the best strategy for this kind of system (look at gp32, zodiac, gp2x)
having a great n64 and dreamcast emulators is going to mindblowingly, frenetically, exponentially increase the Pandora sales.
'nuff said
 
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@gruso, I'm not let down, else i would just fade off and do my things privately :)

@Esn, I will work with anyones suggestions or mods on the analogs, more than happy to. If i have the time when things are going a bit ... faster, I will look into a mod myself as well .

@All, the video is a bit late and not what was requested (oops?) but I dont have that many things to test and not everything works as of now.

... So :

CODE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o4y9k0s_Xc

a favorite of mine

Please note the framerate in this game is 30fps or so, the cpu percentage is correct and the RPS is similar to the framerate.
[ as in 8 / 30 would be 14fps+ PAL or ~16fps NTSC (if it worked out in that fashion)]

You might not label it "playable", but its looking up from things a few days ago.

I will be adding more videos to youtube on a frequent basis and will post links on these forums.

-Z
 
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Gruso said:
Holy hell, I didn't expect to see this much progress in such a short time! Thanks for posting, can't wait for more. :D
Heh... We've pretty much hit the theoretical space with this one at this point- and the Pandora's not even out yet. :D

Here's to hoping to see them grab a 50% or more gain in performance with it in the near future.
 
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QUOTE
Here's to hoping to see them grab a 50% or more gain in performance with it in the near future.


I'll drink to that !

There was never really anything theoretical about it to me, it simply needed to be done. Speedwise, its a long road uphill ... but I intend to see it out whenever I have free time to do so. The sh4 has a powerfull floating point, ARM does not.. NEON nor VFP3 is made for what we want, but it will do..
 
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'ZeZu' said:
@Esn, I will work with anyones suggestions or mods on the analogs, more than happy to. If i have the time when things are going a bit ... faster, I will look into a mod myself as well .

That wasn't a suggestion for you; I'm happy with the solution of setting it to 100% and ignoring the sensitivity altogether (setting it to the other analog pad sounds good also). I was just saying that people could control speed if necessary by pressing the shoulder button on+off. In most racing games, you don't slow down too often anyway. ;)

To be honest, I've had the DC for years and didn't realize until just now that the shoulder buttons were analog. :ph34r: So for obvious reasons, I won't miss the lack of this feature... :rolleyes:

That video looks quite promising, although I've never played POP myself so I don't know what it should actually look like. Are some of the graphical elements absent at this stage?
 
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Goddamn, that's a lot of progress since the dreamcast startup animation! Flabbergasted, just flabbergasted :D
 
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