Please: Read my posts carefully! (2011-08-26)

[DragonAX]

Hi ED, a question for you... Lets say I have access to a solder pot and a skilled hardware guy (I work at an electronics firm), would dropping out the existing CPU and RAM (I presume they are BGA?) and upgrading them myself be a conceivable possibility? Or would it be just too hard to de-solder those components?


Drew

 

[gadgetoid]

Hi ED, a question for you... Lets say I have access to a solder pot and a skilled hardware guy (I work at an electronics firm), would dropping out the existing CPU and RAM (I presume they are BGA?) and upgrading them myself be a conceivable possibility? Or would it be just too hard to de-solder those components?


Drew

This has been asked over and over and over and over and over again. The sheer technical complexity of de-soldering the SOC means that it's basically an insurmountable task. It's not inconceivable, but that which can be conceived cannot necessarily be performed.


Do yourself a favour and search the forums for all the reasons why!

 

[milkshake]

Hi ED, a question for you... Lets say I have access to a solder pot and a skilled hardware guy (I work at an electronics firm), would dropping out the existing CPU and RAM (I presume they are BGA?) and upgrading them myself be a conceivable possibility? Or would it be just too hard to de-solder those components?


Drew

here is a reply EvilDragon prepared earlier

Okay, some more replies from me.


It is NOT possible to upgrade the old board with a new SoC. First, this would not make sense as it would probably be as expensive as simply producing a new board. Second, the circuit had to be changed a bit, so it's not just a drop-in-replacement.

 

[Linopoly]

ED has gotten several offers from investors to finance batch 2. It's all about being able to sell enough Pandoras to recoup that investment. If it's possible to sell 600MHz Pandoras for $500, and 1000Mhz/512MB Pandoras for $750, then do it.

I think those prices are way too expensive. It's cheaper than that to get devices that have better specs and are mobile phones, and you'll have a hard time convincing most people to choose a Pandora instead of a modern smartphone, including me (I would also have a hard time explaining such a choice to friends and family).


I think it could even make the 600MHz Pandoras look bad, because after seeing the overpriced $750 price tag, people may look at the 600MHz price and think that it's also based on a big profit margin rather than the mess of the last couple of years.

 

[milkshake]

ED has gotten several offers from investors to finance batch 2. It's all about being able to sell enough Pandoras to recoup that investment. If it's possible to sell 600MHz Pandoras for $500, and 1000Mhz/512MB Pandoras for $750, then do it.

I think those prices are way too expensive. It's cheaper than that to get devices that have better specs and are mobile phones, and you'll have a hard time convincing most people to choose a Pandora instead of a modern smartphone, including me (I would also have a hard time explaining such a choice to friends and family).


I think it could even make the 600MHz Pandoras look bad, because after seeing the overpriced $750 price tag, people may look at the 600MHz price and think that it's also based on a big profit margin rather than the mess of the last couple of years.

sorry but you cant compare MASS produced prices to small run prices plus this is a custom device you cant compare the other devices.

 

[DragonAX]

Hi ED, a question for you... Lets say I have access to a solder pot and a skilled hardware guy (I work at an electronics firm), would dropping out the existing CPU and RAM (I presume they are BGA?) and upgrading them myself be a conceivable possibility? Or would it be just too hard to de-solder those components?


Drew

here is a reply EvilDragon prepared earlier

Okay, some more replies from me.


It is NOT possible to upgrade the old board with a new SoC. First, this would not make sense as it would probably be as expensive as simply producing a new board. Second, the circuit had to be changed a bit, so it's not just a drop-in-replacement.

Yea figured as much... I just got the impression that ED was talking about a pin compatible "drop in replacment" thing this time...

 

[Stephane Hockenhull]

I heard from Craig that a lot of people sent him an angry mail about the SoC upgrade and want to cancel right away, etc.

LOL


whenever I read about that I'm picturing my dad writing an angry letter to Jack Tramiel complaining his first computer, a ~500$ C64, is about 1/100000 as powerful as my laptop bought for the same price.


He also want a refund for those 170KB 5.25" floppies because terabyte HDDs are available now.

 

[WizardStan]

To me, more RAM is WAY more important than more CPU clock. Opinions may vary.

Out of curiosity, what exactly are you doing that requires so much RAM? The only time I've ever bumped into the edge of it was while running Firefox with several tabs open. Keeping it to Midori with those same tabs, I was able to also run deadbeef, open a 12MB PDF, a doc file in Abiword, an AVI in VLC, and SNES9x4p with a small chunk of RAM to spare, possibly enough to through at the DSP even. With all that running, more CPU would have been far more useful than more RAM.


So I am genuinely curious: what is the use case that you have that requires so much RAM, and exactly how much more have you calculated you'll need?

 

[Zelest]

Even if I would be the last one to get the 600Mhz one and the one after me got the 1Ghz one, I wouldn't flinch. Whatever strenthens the product strengthens the community and makes the interest for it better. That brings more consumers and developers, and the positive circle just keep spiraling upwards. I see no reason for getting grumpy about it at all. After all, it benefits me and everyone in the long run anyway.


I hopes this comes to pass, even if it'd probably be the 3rd batch, since if I understand it right all the chips are already bought for the second batch.


The only -real- problem I see is that emulators/games would shift towards the faster standard, thus making new applications very slow/unuseable on the new platform. But... if one never moves forward, how can things ever progress?


Good news about the economy and the paintjob, by the way =)

 

[EvilDragon]

Hm, a second option for the better SoC for a higher price might be an option.


We've got 4000 old OMAPs we need to use up, but if 1000 1GHz Pandoras with a higher price sell as well (upgrade from the old one is possible), it might be we get enough users wanting the old, cheaper one or the new, faster one.


Tough things.

 

[MasterJulian]

I would buy the upgrade for my Batch 1 pre-order, if the price is reasonable.

 

[FaeMinx]

*sigh*


This is the first I've gotten wind of this... Don't know what to think really.


Of course I would upgrade if I could - but 750???? :blink:


I thought we had all agreed that upgrading the processor (I.e. Making two versions of the Pandora) was not wise? What is going to happen to the 600mhz Pandora? If software is going to be optimized for it - then what is the point of the upgrade? If it isn't and the upgrade is going to be the new standard - then we've all been stabbed in the back?


If the new processor is going to be cheaper than our current one - I would suggest selling the upgraded Pandora for significantly more than the premium price, but to those willing to pay for shipping both ways as well as labor costs and a reasonable (but manageable) profit, then those already with a Pandora should have the option to swap theirs.


To new customers the upgrade should be significant so that the 600mhz Pandoras can still fetch a decent price once they've been swapped out.

 

[cosurgi]

I would buy the upgrade for my Batch 1 pre-order, if the price is reasonable.

I will upgrade mine at any un-reasonable price

 

[SoleGrave]

I dont remember exactly but I think someone was talking about a larger L3 cache? (A hard ware upgrade will fragment your user base though it is inevitable in the long run). Hmm I wonder how long before 2nd generation Pandora?


.

 

[headcrash]

hi,


remember the '1st batch' label ?


preserve that for the 600 Mhz pandora, that would increase the personal value and maybe calm the crowd.


I am one of the last in the first batch row. I would not mind to pay $ 200 more to get the new SOC. but I would not pay $ 750 for a new one - thats too much for me.


regarding the faster SOC - what's about the duration of battery ?


greetings

 

[neko]

I think those prices are way too expensive. It's cheaper than that to get devices that have better specs and are mobile phones, and you'll have a hard time convincing most people to choose a Pandora instead of a modern smartphone, including me (I would also have a hard time explaining such a choice to friends and family).

Really? The only phone with software support comparable to the pandora is the N900, and it doesn't have better specs. If you want a pocket computer, well... OQO is out of business, UMID is out of business, and the Viliv N-series is discontinued. You can still get the Sharp Netwalker but they're over $600. The only other things on the market are a bunch of cheap Android tablets that aren't worth buying.

I think it could even make the 600MHz Pandoras look bad, because after seeing the overpriced $750 price tag, people may look at the 600MHz price and think that it's also based on a big profit margin rather than the mess of the last couple of years.

$750 is probably a bit much... the additional cost of the parts (for a board not already made) would be under $100, and that's including the cost of throwing out the old ones. They could probably do it for less than $750, depends on how large of a production run though.

 

[ahahah]

a long time ago a pandora V2 was evoked to probably be out one day.


at this time there was not this agitation aabout menace mails.


it's funny to see how a lot of people were in a hurry to receive their pandora and and now they don't want to receive it soon and want to be in a later queue position...

 

[G189]

I'd pay to upgrade... especially if it meant I could get the 2nd slot fixed at the same time, as I'm now on my third Pandora and didn't have the patience and energy to send it back again ;-)

 

[WizardStan]

If it isn't and the upgrade is going to be the new standard - then we've all been stabbed in the back?

How so? It isn't like new software won't run on the old CPU, it'll just run better on the new one. In some cases that will mean a difference between not getting anything, and getting something that only runs well on the new CPU (and not so well on the old one). This is already the case! There are some applications that only run well when overclocked to 800Mhz and beyond. I haven't looked into the recent yabause development much, but on the surface it looks like it will only be viable for those very few fortunate that can currently overclock to 1Ghz: would you say "boo, don't release that Saturn emulator because it can't run at the stock 500Mhz" or do you say "yay, someone has ported a Saturn emulator, even if I can't play it I'm happy there is someone who can"?

 

[mjohansson]

Mayby this split of opinions has to do with peoples view on what the Pandora is? Is it a videogame console or a computer? Its a computer that can be used in a similiar way as a videogame console, and all emulators and ported games and programs will run on old Pandoras as well but possibly slower in the case were something is not fullspeed on 600mhz CPU, and in that case it wont run any faster wether or not there is a faster CPU available anyway.


Looking at iPhone and iPod, there are games that dont run on older gens, and there isnt always a clear distinction or easy to make out which gen of hardware you have in your hand, mayby people are complaining about that I dont know, but still its the nature of progression, its not so much that old gens of hardware cant run software developed for newer gens that its about not having software for new hardware, except in the cases of backwardscompatability, and if a new version of Pandora is backwards compatabil its the new users that wont have to worry about not getting software rather then old users that have anything to worry about.


My point is theres no guarantie there dosnt come out new hardware tomorrow, and thats a good thing, do people get upset that faster PCs come out so no one makes software that runs well on older? No, because usually it isnt a problem at all, hardware iterations is usually incremental so there is a big overlap, you can still run programs and games unless your PC is ancient, normal videogame consoles like Playstation is a bigger problem, after a new generation comes out you cant run the games for the PS3 on your PS2 at all.