Please: Read my posts carefully! (2011-08-26)

[Radical]

What's truly surprising is how people still have faith in Pandora after all of this, they didn't even offer you guys a free case or anything, it's just a "sorry, looks like it's going to be yet another three months" everytime.

I think the reason is that the Pandora is such an amazing little device - there's literally nothing like it in handheld form. I've had mine since March this year, and it goes everywhere with me. I'm at work at the moment, and all my patients are asleep so I'm just nicely playing a bit of MDK on the PSX emulator and intending to try some of the new homebrew that was released over the last couple of days. When I'm done with that I'll browse the web for a while and maybe work on some documentation in AbiWord for PandaBAS.


It's worth every penny, it really is.


D.

Well, it's 2011 and there ARE products like the Pandora, however the Pandora is a more all-round package in comparison.
Smartphones- Versatile range of hardware and software, Android is relatively open. However, they usually don't have keyboards and you have to put up with an irritating touchscreen, expensive phone plan and people constantly trying to contact you.


PDA's- They've been around since forever and they're pretty useful for a lot of office-related things. However, they usually have shitty operating systems, limited software support and tacky keyboards/touchscreens.


Laptops/Notebooks- Can generally do more but they're heavier and bigger, a lot of the cheaper ones are really poor quality with a low battery life.


Handheld computers- They're either ancient and running on poor software or they're the really expensive ones around £800 for specs similar to a high-end smartphone.


Everything else- Not so significant or not worth mentioning.


The Pandora would've been an amazing product a few years ago and it's still pretty sweet now but it's aging hardware.

 

[ZXDunny]

The Pandora would've been an amazing product a few years ago and it's still pretty sweet now but it's aging hardware.

Agreed. I suppose it depends on what you need that power for - I don't need it at present; I've been pratting around on NDS and PSP so by comparison the hardware is superlative. Playing emulators on the NDS and PSP is a far inferior experience compared to the Pandora - being able to run them at the speeds they were intended to is wonderful, as opposed to other gaming handhelds where although it's a real "wow, they did this on an NDS?" feeling you always have the nagging doubt that the hardware isn't really quite powerful enough...


So yes, it is outdated now but if your needs are not 1GHz+ then it's horses for courses. And my needs don't go that high at present... When I think of the hours and days I lost coding daft BASIC apps on my Casio PB-110B, the Pandora looks to be in for a real hammering.


D.

 

[Caine]

Smartphones- Versatile range of hardware and software, Android is relatively open. However, they usually don't have keyboards and you have to put up with an irritating touchscreen, expensive phone plan and people constantly trying to contact you.

I would say that the lack of gaming controls, storage, root-access and a poor battery life are the major disadvantages of the Smartphones when compared to the Pandora. A smartphone with qwerty keyboard paired with an iControlpad is as close to the Pandora as you currently can get.


The smartphones have an advantage with regard to communication and size of the developer community (especially Android). The Pandora has the advantage of having integrated controls and a better price.

 

[gadgetoid]

I find it fittingly ironic that the closest competitor to the Pandora is a combination of a smartphone ( you already have one, don't you? ) and a product conceived and sold by the same folks as the Pandora.


I dare say that the iControlPad has really caused my interest in the Pandora to wane, but since I've written off the cash and love gadgets for the sake of gadgets I'm holding out. I've been able to satisfy all my emulation itches on the iPhone and iPad... and with ZodTTD back and producing things can only get better.


The iPhone/iPad also have a big advantage over the Pandora; the App Store. More and more App Store apps are getting iCade and thus iControlPad compatibility, and it's really blossoming into a wonderful mobile gaming experience. It's kept me from buying a 3DS, that's for sure.


I've yet to experience the Pandora, so my perspective could be skewed somewhat towards what I know.


Most people count the expensive phone plan in smartphones favour, they'd rather subsidize their $500-600 purchase than buy it outright... the price of a new Pandora is a hard pill to swallow, whereas smartphones are pretty much ubiquitous.


The iControlPad is slightly too expensive for the market, but it's selling like hotcakes anyway. If they ever manage to get some serious stock in ( hundreds of thousands ) they could use good ol' economies of scale, drop the price and blow through them in a matter of days.


Please don't say the Pandora is ageing. It's maturing. From past experience I know these consoles are pretty useless ( The GP2X was a good example ) until several *years* after they're released. Then software optimization, plus new software, slowly makes them into a really stellar product. In this niche, the hardware doesn't really matter a damn... these things get better and better as the years go on. The Dingoo is shit-on-a-stick from a hardware perspective, but the things people play on that will blow your mind.

 

[Shadowfox]

I find it fittingly ironic that the closest competitor to the Pandora is a combination of a smartphone ( you already have one, don't you? ) and a product conceived and sold by the same folks as the Pandora.


I dare say that the iControlPad has really caused my interest in the Pandora to wane, but since I've written off the cash and love gadgets for the sake of gadgets I'm holding out. I've been able to satisfy all my emulation itches on the iPhone and iPad... and with ZodTTD back and producing things can only get better.


The iPhone/iPad also have a big advantage over the Pandora; the App Store. More and more App Store apps are getting iCade and thus iControlPad compatibility, and it's really blossoming into a wonderful mobile gaming experience. It's kept me from buying a 3DS, that's for sure.


I've yet to experience the Pandora, so my perspective could be skewed somewhat towards what I know.


Most people count the expensive phone plan in smartphones favour, they'd rather subsidize their $500-600 purchase than buy it outright... the price of a new Pandora is a hard pill to swallow, whereas smartphones are pretty much ubiquitous.


The iControlPad is slightly too expensive for the market, but it's selling like hotcakes anyway. If they ever manage to get some serious stock in ( hundreds of thousands ) they could use good ol' economies of scale, drop the price and blow through them in a matter of days.


Please don't say the Pandora is ageing. It's maturing. From past experience I know these consoles are pretty useless ( The GP2X was a good example ) until several *years* after they're released. Then software optimization, plus new software, slowly makes them into a really stellar product. In this niche, the hardware doesn't really matter a damn... these things get better and better as the years go on. The Dingoo is shit-on-a-stick from a hardware perspective, but the things people play on that will blow your mind.

I like your view on the pandora, ~a propos maturing - really the majority of ported emulators are for discontinued hardware systems, it's not like the targeted systems / software are becoming anymore demanding of the host system (pandora etc.). We shouldn't let ourselves think of this system like a standard game console, as if passing an upgrade is like getting a PSX in place of a PS2, because it simply isn't like that. :lol:

 

[Binky]

As the Pandora is used for desktop applications wouldn't it makes sense to improve on the hardware abilities when it is practical and won't disrupt compatibility.


If Pandoras with better chips could be made available with out major delays or damaging financial loss to OP.ltd, they should be because it would pull in more customers and help run bloated software of the future. While the unfulfilled order stack complicates matters (and better Pandoras' if produced should be distributed fairly (maybe at a higher cost)), it seems a poor decision to hold back because the old version will not be as good as the new. In my opinion that is:


not upgrading because it would be an improvement - which is silly.


Always improve when practical. Those who have the old version get more time to use an awesome product and that remains awesome even if a better version comes out.


If I waited 10 years to buy a pandora I might get a super-hig-res semi-reflective 3D(eye-safe) capacitive screen, a 8Ghz cpu, 30h intensive use battery life and enough sensors to play kinect, wii and iProduct games, with enough internal disk space for triple booting; but I'd lose out on 10 years of having a Pandora.


A compatible upgrade now, might save an incompatible upgrade later (?) This would allow the system to continue maturing. while being able to emulate the next generation of discontinued games


If production did take place with newer chips, could smaller numbers be bought time to prevent future stocks of unfashionably spec-ed SOCs?

 

[may88]

I have a first-gen Pandora. It has exactly the same specs as when I agreed to order it. It does a job and it does it well. I love it!

 

[Dark_Link]

where is the ram chip on the board? I'm planning on soldering a 512 chip yes I know it's very painfully hard to do

 

[slaeshjag]

On top of the SoC.

 

[Link]

where is the ram chip on the board? I'm planning on soldering a 512 chip yes I know it's very painfully hard to do

Where is there room?

 

[Stradian]

Well, I would say 'good luck' but you are going to need more then that to accomplish that task.

 

[gadgetoid]

It's not painfully hard. It's impossible.

 

[diligentcircle]

I'm definitely for the idea of a hardware upgrade. I don't think it would split the community much either; I've read about concern of developers not worrying about optimizing for the older hardware, but since so many of the old ones already exist, as an indie game developer myself, I think developers would do whatever they can to optimize their software/games enough for the old hardware as well as the new (as long as the old hardware stays in users' hands).


The only time I can think of when I would fail to support slower hardware owned by many people is if it simply isn't possible. A good example is actually my Space Invaders game I made for the TI-84 Plus; I made every single optimization I could think of, cutting shields and treating the aliens as a single entity most of the time, but it simply wasn't possible (outside of re-making the game in Z80 Assembly) to make the game fast enough for the TI-83 Plus.


But if I was able to, I certainly would have optimized my Space Invaders game for the TI-83 Plus. Why? Quite simply, because a lot of users own the TI-83 Plus. I would have had a larger potential audience by supporting this device, which is basically the same thing, but with a slower processor. The important thing to note here is that, while my Space Invaders game was free, I did in fact have a motive: attention. Like anyone else, I very much like to hear that someone likes or appreciates my work. The more people I please, the better. So it's really a fallacy to say that developers are simply going to ignore the audience with older hardware. All the hardware upgrade would mean is that more would be possible, which is definitely a step in the right direction in my opinion.

 

[Stradian]

I'll say this: If the community is really going nuts over this, OPT is probably better off saying no. As this response from the community may indicate that it is too early to upgrade hardware and calm the masses.


Explanation behind my thinking here:

Spoiler

I think the community is getting way too hyped over this new plan.


I would like to tell everyone what happened when the PSP homebrew community now gotten slims with 2x the ram: Nothing really happened. You just gotten one with slight better specs... that was just it! Software was written for ONE psp, not two different kinds. You can run daedalusx64 on a slim and a phat and not be able to tell which one is faster at first.


There will be very minimal performance difference that is noticeable between the two pandoras anyway, This is not like jumping from a Pentium 4 to a i5/i7, while keeping WinXp. LIKE ED has said: You will mainly notice the extra beef on browsers like chrome and Firefox: Why? Because these browsers were targeted at the current x86 computers and therefore, were designed as resource hogs to give you the best browsing absolutely possible.


Sure, it is better specs, but it is really not a huge leap, nor i think it was intended to be one.


Probably be better to release a Pandora 2 in 2-3 years

 

[Grench]

Wow - sorry, I didn't mean for my post to end up in this thread going in such an insane direction.


WizardStan - my post mentioned that I consider RAM much more important. I'm running from SDHC card with a 2GB swap file available. I have seen my swap file approach 600MB before the unit crashed ingloriously. At the time I was running Master of Magic under DOSBox while trying to listen to music through Pandora radio running under Firefox 5.0. The obvious answer is, "don't do that." I find that the RAM is more limiting in multitasking than CPU cycles. Your experience may vary.


Everyone who's in a panic - OPL said NOTHING about a $750 Pandora. That stems from my post where I suggested that a Pandora with more RAM and/or a faster clock should price higher than the 'normal' Pandora - and that difference should be the same as they would have to charge to upgrade/update a normal Pandora at a profit. The additional $250 was my way of benchmarking what -I- approximated this at. I do not, have not, and will not work for OPL. My main idea is to have the upgraded units at a price point that covers throwing out or fire selling some of the existing CPU inventory.


Sheeeeesh that went way out of control though.


Anyone canceling their pre-orders on the thought or talk of an updated unit should reconsider.


Will there be an update/upgrade someday? We should be so lucky.


Anyone with an existing unit that through jealousy or self-protection thinks that there should never be a better than 1st batch unit released should probably seek professional psychiatric help. This, "Nobody should have something better than mine!" attitude is ugly and doesn't help the community.


The fact that there is even talk about the possibility of considering the chance that there might be a potential for a step up in capabilities without huge investment in board and system redesign - I'm thrilled at that possibility. I have had my Pandora for less than 6 months now and it has already become a critical bit of my kit.

 

[kasp]

I would say that the lack of gaming controls, storage, root-access and a poor battery life are the major disadvantages of the Smartphones when compared to the Pandora. A smartphone with qwerty keyboard paired with an iControlpad is as close to the Pandora as you currently can get.

Well the Xperia play has that covered and i got it for 130 bucks cheaper than the pandora. I absolutely love it, the control pad is done fantastically, I am seriously considering dropping my Pandora order because of it. Sure the touch pads aren't as good as the nubs but most of the games I play don't use them?


I am just over waiting, I don't know why I have been so patient.

 

[SavageMind]

DID YOU ALL HEAR? The OP Crew is trying to extend in a new market group. They have created a new model of Pandora that is kid friendly. The all new Smurf Edition Pandora!


The same Pandora but with a Smurfy cool look! On start up it plays the well known and beloved Smurf Theme. The same song your parents wanted to stab themselves with a fork every time you sang it at the dinner table! Pre-orders can be taken now with a shipment date of........ Hell I don't know but it looks cool!!!


I figured if there are going to be rumors floating around I could start one too...lol :blink:

 

[BeefJerky]

Is it possible for me to cancel my current order and reorder this new Smurf edition?

 

[awoma]

This is outrageous. I have written angry letters to everyone in OPT. I paid for a pandora, and now find that they are selling a clearly improved smurfdora?

 

[ronchaine]

There's one point I haven't seen addressed yet. (I might be wrong, please kill me if I am) If the hardware upgrade happens, it brings Pandora to roughly the same specs as iPhone.


This means that most apps / homebrew games that are targeted to iPhones could be ported to Pandoraland without going through optimisation hell just to notice that it didn't get enough speed after all. This could benefit even the people who would have the older version as people porting stuff don't have to fear that the work they're doing is all for nothing when the platform they dev on can't handle it. Some of the stuff can, and probably will, run on the older one as well. Developers just weren't sure it would be worth the effort to try it out.


Might happen, just my 2¢.