Release Picodrive Released

[torpor]

Good point to disable wifi .. might also be good to double-check the async/noatime/mod-time settings being used with the SD card mounts .. this could be a delayed sync operation causing the framedrops.


Still lots of tweaking to do around this subject in the Pandora OS, in my opinion ..

 

[DaveC]

I noticed these frame drops too. I was quite surprised by this as it actually runs smoother on the Wiz! It drops quite a bit even in a simple game like Sonic 1.

I am running this from mini menu not XFCE (I boot directly into mini menu) and it still stutters and has an uneven framerate. This probably rules out XFCE wifi issues. Even the unoptimised SNES 9x emu runs more consistant. It is really weird.

 

[SomeGuy99]

You have to press B, followed by the button/key you want to use to set a new value.

You have to press A to clear a value.

If you are editing a value in GPIO (Gamepad) settings, but press a keyboard key, it will send you to the keyboard screen - adding your new binding without removing the original one, so you need to go back to the original screen and press 'A' to remove the binding.

One you have finished setting up your controls press X to leave the binding screen, move down to 'save global config' and it should remain that way for your future uses. It has done for me, anyway.

Okay, it works once I clear the value. Didn't realise this, thanks!

Before, I was binding new values and didn't realise you need to clear them first.

 

[notaz]

I noticed these frame drops too. I was quite surprised by this as it actually runs smoother on the Wiz! It drops quite a bit even in a simple game like Sonic 1.

yeah it's the OS, I can't do anything in the emu itself to solve this.

I am running this from mini menu not XFCE (I boot directly into mini menu) and it still stutters and has an uneven framerate. This probably rules out XFCE wifi issues. Even the unoptimised SNES 9x emu runs more consistant. It is really weird.

NetworkManager is still doing scans even in minimenu.. There is quite a lot of stuff running even in minimenu mode really.

might also be good to double-check the async/noatime/mod-time settings being used with the SD card mounts .. this could be a delayed sync operation causing the framedrops.

Cards are mounted with sync. Removing it helps a lot but then you often lose files as soon as you eject.

Still lots of tweaking to do around this subject in the Pandora OS, in my opinion ..

Sure, any help would be appreciated. We are really low of resources on this, ED is probably the most active one.

Before, I was binding new values and didn't realise you need to clear them first.

Yeah, still need to tweak this stuff.

 

[fusion_power]

yeah it's the OS, I can't do anything in the emu itself to solve this.

Sounds like this could become a huge problem for other Software too? I hope it can be fixed somehow (whatever it is),

NetworkManager is still doing scans even in minimenu.. There is quite a lot of stuff running even in minimenu mode really.

Wasn't the reason for minimenu the point to have a small, fast "near hardware" menu with "nothing" underneeth?

Sure, any help would be appreciated. We are really low of resources on this, ED is probably the most active one.

where are all the crazy Linux-mad Hackorz out there that only wait to dive deep into the secrets of Pandora Hard- and Software?

 

[WizardStan]

where are all the crazy Linux-mad Hackorz out there that only wait to dive deep into the secrets of Pandora Hard- and Software?

waiting for our Pandoras to arrive! :angry:

 

[DaveC]

I noticed these frame drops too. I was quite surprised by this as it actually runs smoother on the Wiz! It drops quite a bit even in a simple game like Sonic 1.

yeah it's the OS, I can't do anything in the emu itself to solve this.

I am running this from mini menu not XFCE (I boot directly into mini menu) and it still stutters and has an uneven framerate. This probably rules out XFCE wifi issues. Even the unoptimised SNES 9x emu runs more consistant. It is really weird.

NetworkManager is still doing scans even in minimenu.. There is quite a lot of stuff running even in minimenu mode really.

Wow this sucks.

So let me get this straight, we went up considerably in power but all of this OS overhead crap brought it back down to a level below even the GP2X!?

This makes something like PSX or something like that impossible. I thought the point of the Pandora was to play games too. I guess it is then mainly yet another net device with the mediocre ability to play some choppy emulators as an afterthought?

I warned in the beginning that there should be a minimal boot mode without all kinds of useless crap running if you just want to play a game. I guess no one listened and went ahead with bogging it down with all kinds of overhead.

Is there a way for me to disable all of that shit, or have the emus freeze those tasks while it is running? I could care less about internet crap as I have that everywhere else. (I don't need to be receiving email while playing Sonic, that is OK) Is there a way for me to go in and unload all of these tasks? If not then the Pandora will be severly crippled as a games machine and was poorly thought out for that task. I guess priority was internet first, games last. Honestly PicoDrive runs terrible on the Pandora considering how well it ran on a 200 MHz GP2X.

It seems like no matter how much power we get somehow we always are having to overclock just got get basic stuff running well. So weird and kind of a bummer.

 

[Tom`]

Wasn't the reason for minimenu the point to have a small, fast "near hardware" menu with "nothing" underneeth?

Yes, and in fact minimenu can run this way (i. e., without running X). However, it turns out that most games and applications can't run with just a framebuffer, they need X to draw anything...

edit:

Is there a way for me to disable all of that shit, or have the emus freeze those tasks while it is running? I could care less about internet crap as I have that everywhere else. (I don't need to be receiving email while playing Sonic, that is OK) Is there a way for me to go in and unload all of these tasks? If not then the Pandora will be severly crippled as a games machine and was poorly thought out for that task. I guess priority was internet first, games last. Honestly PicoDrive runs terrible on the Pandora considering how well it ran on a 200 MHz GP2X.

Certainly you can kill the superfluous tasks. I imagine someone will release a minimal OS (maybe the Neuvoo people) that only has what you need to run emulators and some games. I can see why they would have been reluctant to do this at first, though - they could have two OSes by default (probably not enough space on the NAND), only ship with the minimal OS (and have everyone going "where's my network-manager/abiword/browser that I saw in the videos," or install everything. So that's what they did. It's pretty fun to strip down a Linux distro anyway; where's your sense of adventure?

edit again: It does seem like stuff always needs more power to run - I ran Linux (full KDE) on a 400 MHz PII with 128 MB of memory in 2003, and it seemed pretty fast; I installed Linux with Fluxbox on it recently, and it seemed incredibly slow, even though Fluxbox is a lot smaller and faster than KDE. Same thing happens with Windows too - XP takes a lot more resources than 2000 to do the same stuff. I don't know to what extent this might be true on the Pandora, and we don't really have the option to run a GP2X-era kernel (since the amount of stuff that would have to be backported would probably be staggering). I hope this isn't the case, though.

 

[DaveC]

Wasn't the reason for minimenu the point to have a small, fast "near hardware" menu with "nothing" underneeth?

Yes, and in fact minimenu can run this way (i. e., without running X). However, it turns out that most games and applications can't run with just a framebuffer, they need X to draw anything...

In the beginning when it was the bright idea to use X for everything I inquired if that would cause framerate problems from overhead and tasks shifting memory around (if you dig back enough you could probbly find the post). All I got was flak and people telling me that I worry too much and running X will have almost no effect.

Well now here we are, can't even play Megadrive games as smooth as we can on an old 200 MHz GP2X.

 

[DaveC]

Certainly you can kill the superfluous tasks. I imagine someone will release a minimal OS (maybe the Neuvoo people) that only has what you need to run emulators and some games. I can see why they would have been reluctant to do this at first, though - they could have two OSes by default (probably not enough space on the NAND), only ship with the minimal OS (and have everyone going "where's my network-manager/abiword/browser that I saw in the videos," or install everything. So that's what they did. It's pretty fun to strip down a Linux distro anyway; where's your sense of adventure?

As for stripping down a linux distro, I can't do that. I Don't have anywhere near the knowledge.

I am not sure why minimenu couldn't have something in it that kills/suspends those useless tasks when you start an emu or game. Could that be done?

 

[Rivroner]

But if this is an OS problem in a couple of weeks will be solved, no?

 

[DaveC]

But if this is an OS problem in a couple of weeks will be solved, no?

It doesn't sound like a "problem" it just sounds like how it was designed. Network manager running is not a bug, it is designed that way.

 

[Googer]

I'm not really a Linux expert to know if this would help nor do I have my Pandora yet to try it out, but I run emulators with their process priority elevated in Windows to help ensure they run 100% perfectly smoothly. Can someone try using the renice command on a running instance of Picodrive and give it a high priority (a negative number close to -20, which is highest priority according to its man page since the range is -20 through +19)?

 

[God Ginrai]

might also be good to double-check the async/noatime/mod-time settings being used with the SD card mounts .. this could be a delayed sync operation causing the framedrops.

Cards are mounted with sync. Removing it helps a lot but then you often lose files as soon as you eject.

Couldn't this problem be fixed by loading the rom the user is currently playing completely into memory?

-God Ginrai

 

[silver]

Relax, if net manager is the problem - it could be killed in the PND script before emu launch.

Notaz was hassled loads to release his emu before he was happy with it - and it's the first OS release. Tearing both down immediately is not needed IMHO...

 

[Rivroner]

But if this is an OS problem in a couple of weeks will be solved, no?

It doesn't sound like a "problem" it just sounds like how it was designed. Network manager running is not a bug, it is designed that way.

So, it is a soft problem and will be easily solved no?

 

[Esn]

But if this is an OS problem in a couple of weeks will be solved, no?

It doesn't sound like a "problem" it just sounds like how it was designed. Network manager running is not a bug, it is designed that way.

So, it is a soft problem and will be easily solved no?

Should be added here, maybe?
http://bugs.openpandora.org/

 

[fusion_power]

Wasn't the reason for minimenu the point to have a small, fast "near hardware" menu with "nothing" underneeth?

Yes, and in fact minimenu can run this way (i. e., without running X). However, it turns out that most games and applications can't run with just a framebuffer, they need X to draw anything...

Hm, to much tech for me. ^^ How does an PSP or an NDS handles this? I guess they don't have "X" underneeth and draw everything straight onto the Buffer. Maybe they don't even have a "full" OS underneeth? I just wonder how these Handhelds can make so much out of so less MHz compared to the Pandora. Do they Cheating? :lol:

Well now here we are, can't even play Megadrive games as smooth as we can on an old 200 MHz GP2X.

I've also had worries about that the Pandora may don't have the same per-MHz-power than the GP2X. Turns to be out it's true at the Moment. BUT I'm sure there can be alot of optimizing in the future, I don't plan to play Sonic 1 at 600MHz. :lol:

 

[craigix]

I've also had worries about that the Pandora may don't have the same per-MHz-power than the GP2X. Turns to be out it's true at the Moment. BUT I'm sure there can be alot of optimizing in the future, I don't plan to play Sonic 1 at 600MHz. :lol:

I can assure you it has MORE Mhz to Mhz power than the GP2X. The GP2x had years of software optimisation. As always, patience is required.

 

[notaz]

Wow this sucks.

So let me get this straight, we went up considerably in power but all of this OS overhead crap brought it back down to a level below even the GP2X!?

This makes something like PSX or something like that impossible.

It's not below GP2X, simple SMS game would be slowed exactly the same way as complex PSX one, CPU is just taken away from the emu for a certain constant amount of time. Surely this is not something we want to happen and will be solved one way or another.

I thought the point of the Pandora was to play games too. I guess it is then mainly yet another net device with the mediocre ability to play some choppy emulators as an afterthought?

I warned in the beginning that there should be a minimal boot mode without all kinds of useless crap running if you just want to play a game. I guess no one listened and went ahead with bogging it down with all kinds of overhead.

This all came with the Angstrom distribution, which is derived from desktop Linux OS. It needs to be tweaked more for the device, but we are low on human resources (volunteers only with unrelated full-time jobs), so it takes time. And you don't need to call emulators choppy really, it's not their fault.

It seems like no matter how much power we get somehow we always are having to overclock just got get basic stuff running well. So weird and kind of a bummer.

Well, this is the trend in computing world, unfortunately. Just look at PC/windows world, while just installing windows used to need up to a couple hundreds of MBs in win95/98 times, now you need tens and soon hundreds of GBs just for a base Windows OS. Does something like today's Word run much faster then it did 10 years ago? Hardware is improving but the software just gets more bloat to compensate.
Of course we won't do this mistake with pandora
..maybe..

Wasn't the reason for minimenu the point to have a small, fast "near hardware" menu with "nothing" underneeth?

Yes, and in fact minimenu can run this way (i. e., without running X). However, it turns out that most games and applications can't run with just a framebuffer, they need X to draw anything...

X does not cause that much problem really.. The main problem I see is NetworkManager doing scans and that will hopefully be resolved in the next hotfix patch.

I've also had worries about that the Pandora may don't have the same per-MHz-power than the GP2X. Turns to be out it's true at the Moment. BUT I'm sure there can be alot of optimizing in the future, I don't plan to play Sonic 1 at 600MHz. :lol:

I can assure you it has MORE Mhz to Mhz power than the GP2X. The GP2x had years of software optimisation. As always, patience is required.

Sure it has, the main reasons PicoDrive needs more MHz than on GP2X is:
- the sound core running on the main cpu (as opposed to separate CPU on GP2X)
- the way it interacts with the OS (it currently has forced vsync, that needs fixing).
- The third (and main) reason is wifi scans that should be resolved soon.

So it's not really optimization of emu itself that would give most benefit.