PGS Windows 10 gaming handheld - GPD WIN competitor

[Chip]

PGS for sure are going to make a 7 inches device why not 8 or 9 inches, and something else about the HDMI in and pen stylus

It's phone-sized. 5.7" for one version and 5.2 for the other.

 

[Exophase]

It's phone-sized. 5.7" for one version and 5.2 for the other.

Phablet sized anyway. Which is a reasonable target for something like this.

 

[vcoleiro1]

To be fair, they have said a few times that they don't have anything to show and don't wont to show the hack piece they have. Now you know why I suppose.

When I watched that video , the first thing I did was pause on that prototype. It was to me a baytrail tablet they opened up. I didn't mention it because it wasn't out of line with what they have said really - which is they don't have really anything to show. Now that they have been pressured into showing something, people have said , they really have nothing. This is what they really have said and why they didn't wont to show anything.

I did notice that they at least have made some real effort into designing the case for it.

So I'm not concerned about that, it isn't anything I wasn't expecting. To be fair also, since they are not going to do a pre-order(or Kickstarter) and are going to wait until they finish it - that to me gives them more credibility. This doesn't mean it will eventuate and that they are not dreamers, but it does suggest at least that they are not scammers and are really going to give it a go.

I don't think there aim was to convince people they had anything real at the moment or for that matter a finished product - there comments to me were honest about this. I think they are just aiming to get feedback as they said they are doing. And to intro it so it's not a total surprise when it's announced - ie to perhaps build expectation and people interested in it.

 

[Exophase]

If it's really a disassembled BayTrail tablet that is, in my eyes at least, a lot worse than an eval board. Eval boards are meant for prototyping and being connected to other things (either other eval boards/off the shelf parts or your own hardware) in a way that begins to approximate a new design.

Opening up a tablet serves no purpose other than to make it look like you have something that you don't. It's pure deceit and yes, I think it's out of line with their claims of having a "frankenstein prototype". Something they weren't pressured into claiming, and something that isn't that much better than the mess we saw with the Coleco Chameleon.

And yeah the case design looks great, but at this stage doesn't mean a lot to me. I've seen lots of renders of dream products that look amazing, were probably done by amateurs, and were called out as completely infeasible by people who understand the practical limitations that would be in place. They need to prove that their external design can actually support the internal design that hasn't even benn started, while being mechanically and thermally sound.

 

[mius]

@PGSLab:

Ach, what the heck; given that I wouldn't buy into this via crowdfunding anyway (you people don't have a good enough track record like ED or GPD), and would wait for the first reviews to trickle in, here's some suggestions—maybe someone else picks up on my visions, one can dream, lol:

• I'd prefer a physical keyboard instead of a second screen, even if it's "just" a programmable E Ink display with plastic keycaps, like the one from Samsung from a few years back. Key illumination/backlight would be swell.
  
• Maybe add a second set of shoulder buttons.
• Move the analog sticks to the top, and make them swappable. Take the stick placement of the Pyra or GPD Win as a guideline.
  
• No removable battery, no buy. Fatten the device up a bit or make it a tad bigger, I don't care. Just make it removable.
  
• Ditch the 5.1 audio; good stereo speakers are enough. Move them to the bezel around the touchscreen so they face the user.
• Ditch that pico projector shit and give me a decent active digitzer and stylus for a possible multitouch display, either on the pro (5.7 inch) or a bigger (not more than ca. 7 inches) unit.
• Core M for the pro units would be nice.
• I'd prefer a matte ape glass IPS display to an AMOLED mirror.
• GPS, too.
• HDMI or DisplayPort.
  
• Matte black color scheme.
• Linux support.

Not a clamshell and no keyboard. Everything is stacked against this for getting my rupees.

My idea of perfection would be a convertible clamshell, e.g. a miniaturized old-school ThinkPad like the X6xT or X2x0T-series—or HP's 27x0p EliteBooks.

 

[rygD]

It'd be nice if the people doing things like this had a more transparent and up front approach of where they're at, even if it's still in early planning stages and putting stuff together to see what works. Instead of pushing attention grabbing marketing and acting like the project is ready to go with a price reasonably set and everything, when you have almost nothing to show.

I totally agree. It makes sense for the big companies to try to keep everything secret since they are in competition with each other. For the smaller guys and the enthusiast market I really don't see any reason not to be more open. It keeps the people that want to know the story of their devices happy, along with those that are interested in the technical stuff. It also allows people to understand what is happening in the event of delays, so there are less cries of "SCAM!" and such. Hell, sometimes those that are following the project can help out or give contact info of those that can
[doublepost=1461113254,1461113190][/doublepost]I like the dream machine @mius described.

 

[levi]

It's normally worth big companies keeping secret about new prototypes because they're still trying to sell an existing model. That's different this time for ED because there aren't many new Pandoras being made any more (not to mention that people still want to buy one despite the successor being in development). I don't expect ED to give us details on the production of the next CPU board ahead of time, for example, and I'm fine with that.

I'm in two minds about these ripped up tablets they're showing. Since they aren't asking for money now I don't see what they gain by that, but if that had gone as a kickstarter launch video that would be borderline fraudulent. But they haven't so it isn't...

 

[rygD]

It's normally worth big companies keeping secret about new prototypes because they're still trying to sell an existing model.

That makes no sense. We know they have already been working on the next model before the release of the new one. This isn't a secret. How else could they release new models every year?

I don't expect ED to give us details on the production of the next CPU board ahead of time, for example, and I'm fine with that.

I would like info while he is working on it (and if he wants my opinion on certain specs that would be great). If he doesn't let us know what is going, oh well, I guess.

 

[levi]

Sorry, the fact they're working on a prototype isn't a secret (unless they've run out of money and they aren't working on a prototype - they'd keep that secret), but what exactly the prototype is and can do is normally kept secret to avoid cannibalising sales of the existing unit. It's called the Osbourne effect.

 

[thatgui]

4. You can see sample of "Frankenstein" prototype in the video that we prepared in the event of release on Kickstarter: ... (dont share, please)

The dubbing is horrible, as someone else said, just use real voices - sounds a lot more honest. And the "workbench" just looks super fake, no real workbench has three solder irons on it, and even then, the tips would not face in a direction where they could damage something easily

Any chance the DPAD could get a redesign ?
Why is there a "5.1 sound system" included ?

 

[PGSLab]

Leafar
Hi! Unfortunately, in the near future, we definitely do not plan to increase the size of the device and its display.
The device is equipped with a micro-hdmi port. The device also supports Miracast and WiDi.
Since both the display using capacitive technology, we do not plan to equip the device with the stylus.
[doublepost=1461446754,1461441181][/doublepost]mius
Thanks for suggestions. We'll think about it.

thatgui
Hi! Yes, we are currently experimenting with an alternative placement of the controls. In the release version, we will raise the analogs just above.

About "early prototype and KS video":
This movie is incomplete. It was created a long time ago, when we were still planning to go on Kickstarter. An early prototype was created almost two years ago. To create it, we used the stuff from Cube iWork 7 2\32 (not Linx). Current prototypes are assembled from more recent hardware (z8700\4gb).

 

[vcoleiro1]

@PGSLab

Did you consider swapping out that second (power sucking) screen out for a keyboard ? . Either a normal keyboard or the eink keyboard that was used in the Samsung Alias 2 (complete with domed keys) <- I'd recommend the Alias 2 keyboard for the reasons I gave last time in another forum.

 

[PGSLab]

vcoleiro1
We are discussing with the team and suppliers the possibility of replacing the lower display in the Hardcore version on colored Eink. We are trying to understand how hard it is and how it raise the price of the device.

 

[vcoleiro1]

@PGSLab

I wouldn't bother with color. There is no point. What I would recommend is the B/W eink display like that on the Samsung Alias 2. But it's not just an eink display, if it were , it would be half pointless. The beauty of it is that it has plastic domed keys on top of the eink display. This is a critical part of the puzzle. You can have your low/no power eink display which can display any language keyboard or gaming buttons PLUS with the domed keys you maintain some tactile feel which is a crucial half of the solution.

The problem you had with the second display wasn't just that it used power, the other problem was that for what it would be used for, it would suck, because people would use it to display a keyboard or game buttons but it would lack tactile feedback. That's why the Alias 2 B/W eink keyboard with it's domed plastic keys is the solution that works. It gives the best of both worlds. Low power and some real keys. Look at the videos of it in use that I posted on the eurogamer forum. Supposedly the keys are good to use and have a good feel.

 

[mius]

@PGSLab:

Outside of a proper keyboard, like the kind you might find on conventional UMPCs, vcoleiro1's suggestion would work as well. Below is a picture of the Samsung Alias 2:

 

[PGSLab]

mius
Thank you for your example. Interesting idea. I'll talk to the engineers.

 

[truzz82]

Sorry if I butt in, but what's the point in a keyboard instead of a second screen?

You can always display a touchscreen keyboard (which can be customized according to the different language layouts etc.) on a second screen and, more importantly, it could be used as a touchpad for the first screen. It's VERY uncomfortable, for me at least, to use a gaming stick as a mouse, like the GPD WIN.

The second screen can be used for multitasking too which is a big bonus.

There will already be other devices on the market as the Pyra or the GPD WIN with a physical keyboard, a second screen is a nice differentiator.

What I'm worried about is:
-power consumption: 5 hours of gaming with the specs listed and 2 screens? Color me skeptic.
-heat dissipation and cpu throttling
-hinge mechanism design

I'd suggest bumping the battery to 8000/6000 mAh (pro/standard model), keeping the second screen and, if necessary, adopting a liquid cooling system instead of 5.1 sound or other fancies, even at the cost of a higher retail price.

 

[Faust]

Sorry if I butt in, but what's the point in a keyboard instead of a second screen?

You can always display a touchscreen keyboard (which can be customized according to the different language layouts etc.) on a second screen and, more importantly, it could be used as a touchpad for the first screen. It's VERY uncomfortable, for me at least, to use a gaming stick as a mouse, like the GPD WIN.

The second screen can be used for multitasking too which is a big bonus.

There will already be other devices on the market as the Pyra or the GPD WIN with a physical keyboard, a second screen is a nice differentiator.

What I'm worried about is:
-power consumption: 5 hours of gaming with the specs listed and 2 screens? Color me skeptic.
-heat dissipation and cpu throttling
-hinge mechanism design

I'd suggest bumping the battery to 8000/6000 mAh (pro/standard model), keeping the second screen and, if necessary, adopting a liquid cooling system instead of 5.1 sound or other fancies, even at the cost of a higher retail price.

I'm quite agree with that, I'm also for lowering the main screen resolution, the current one is too high, battery killing, some more not performance wise for the processor. 1360x768 is enough for 5 inches screen.

You should add 3 small buttons beside the small screen to bring different things on it: 1 that switch between keyboard/ touchpad, 1 that works as the xbox gamepad guide button, 1 that you can bind to whatever you want.

You can also include this software:
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/170...-navigate-windows-81-with-an-xbox-controller/

It let's you to add/ bind some action on the gamepad, it's working on Windows 10, it's not only for Windows 8 startscreen, you can use the left stick as mouse. I use it every days, really useful to control everything with the gamepad.

 

[WizardStan]

Sorry if I butt in, but what's the point in a keyboard instead of a second screen?

I also agree here, mostly.
While the keyboard does have tactile feedback that can't be matched with a touch screen and I absolutely wouldn't trade my Pandora or Pyra's keyboard for a second screen, having a second screen does solve a different set of problems than a keyboard. If the PGS guys are serious about this and see the second screen as their solution to the problem I don't think they should be dissuaded; rather, they should be encouraged in the hopes that the second screen gets significant use.
At the very least it would give us something to recommend when people come here asking why the Pandora had a keyboard instead of a second touch screen

 

[mius]

mius
Thank you for your example. Interesting idea. I'll talk to the engineers.

Thank @vcoleiro1, he brought it up in the first place. I just posted a picture.

Sorry if I butt in, but what's the point in a keyboard instead of a second screen?

To have a good typing experience on the go, provided the keyboard design is up to snuff, making the device more of a jack of all trades. Seriously, typing on screens sucks. Also, second screens needed for typing means more hassle when second screen goes kaputt.

You can always display a touchscreen keyboard (which can be customized according to the different language layouts etc.) on a second screen and, more importantly, it could be used as a touchpad for the first screen. It's VERY uncomfortable, for me at least, to use a gaming stick as a mouse, like the GPD WIN.

A programmable E Ink display should let you swap language layouts on the fly too, and the plastic keys make for better typing. I also prefer the versatility of analog nubs as mouse substitute, as, especially with two of 'em and in concert with the shoulder buttons and d-pad, they lend themselves quite nicely to do some rudimentary 3D work, or similar manipulations. It get's even better if any future device maker would ditch useless crap like pico projectors and add a decent active digitizer. What you have then is 1) a set of gaming controls, 2) a traditional keyboard (maybe one with an E Ink twist), and 3) active pen input on a capacitive screen (that's at least 5.5 inches) for better multitouch functionality. Beats a second screen by a long shot if you ask me. Such a machine would cost much more than what PGSLabs dreams to deliver, of course.

There will already be other devices on the market as the Pyra or the GPD WIN with a physical keyboard, a second screen is a nice differentiator.

The Pyra falls out because it's ARM. And the only other competitor, as per thead title that is, has a shit keyboard glued on top of a non-replaceable battery.

I'd suggest bumping the battery to 8000/6000 mAh (pro/standard model), keeping the second screen and, if necessary, adopting a liquid cooling system instead of 5.1 sound or other fancies, even at the cost of a higher retail price.

Agreed on the cooling and the bumped battery. As long as the latter's removable.