Perfect Snes For Gp2x

[Josquius]

Zsnes=best emulator ever.
I dream of a day when a emulator for all consoles similar to that exists.

 

[second exodous]

It's entirely possible. SNES emulators with sound are able to run at full speed on PocketPCs with XScale processors less powerful than ONE of the CPUs used by the GP2x. If the programmers/porters of said emulators know what they are doing, there will be a full speed emulator available for the system. Given the popularity of this goal, it will probably be much sooner than later.

​

Well, the thing with XScale is it usually has a graphics chip that supports everything that Snes9x needs, so it might be a slower CPU is OK when the GPU the brunt of the hard stuff. I was reading further into the Zaurus and it runs full speed with sound with the XScale's graphics chip. Although if one CPU worked on the basic graphics and sound and the other on transparencies and such I think it will run full speed. I think why GPH put two CPUs and no GPUs is it's easier to emulate things rather than work with Intel's hardware at them embedded level, which I hear is pretty hard. Until they can put a nVidia, ATI, or another companies GPU in that is easy to program for I don't think they'll put GPU's in.

Thanx,
Stan

 

[x68000]

i hate using most emu's on the pc and snes ones are a good example of this. Those nasty blocky graphics due to the screen res really puts me off playing them and all of the filters that i have tried just make them look worse.

 

[junker]

TVOUT, use your card!

 

[x68000]

TVOUT, use your card!

​

that just sounds like hassle!! I'll just keep on playing the originals until i can play near perfect snes on the gp2x through the tv out.

 

[reallynotnick]

i hate using most emu's on the pc and snes ones are a good example of this. Those nasty blocky graphics due to the screen res really puts me off playing them and all of the filters that i have tried just make them look worse.

​

:huh: The graphics were always blocky, even on the tv. I find them to alot more 'sharp' on the computer screen and prefer it more then on the tv. As for the best filter, use hq2x, hq3x or hq4x. The higher the number the better it will look.

 

[x68000]

i hate using most emu's on the pc and snes ones are a good example of this. Those nasty blocky graphics due to the screen res really puts me off playing them and all of the filters that i have tried just make them look worse.

​

:huh: The graphics were always blocky, even on the tv. I find them to alot more 'sharp' on the computer screen and prefer it more then on the tv. As for the best filter, use hq2x, hq3x or hq4x. The higher the number the better it will look.

​

no, the graphics were never blocky in the way they are displayed on a monitor, hence the need for all these software filters.

Remember that the resoloution displayed on a tv set is way lower than any you use on your monitor, and since all the games were designed for use on a tv, the only way the games look authentic on your monitor will be if you play them in a small window.

 

[junker]

TVOUT, use your card!

​

that just sounds like hassle!! I'll just keep on playing the originals until i can play near perfect snes on the gp2x through the tv out.

​

no, it's pretty easy. if you have a good video card w/ tvout, then you can choose to outputhat emulator to your tv. and just plug in some usb pads or converters and you're set. there's also the xbox for emulation if this is too much

 

[Cyclops]

no, the graphics were never blocky in the way they are displayed on a monitor, hence the need for all these software filters.

Remember that the resoloution displayed on a tv set is way lower than any you use on your monitor, and since all the games were designed for use on a tv, the only way the games look authentic on your monitor will be if you play them in a small window.

​

eh, I was with you for a little while there. Apart from TV technology taking a step forward. No matter how small a window you play it will look pixelated. A OLD TV technology is make up of three colour (RED BLUE GREEN), If you want a real experience you would go for a filter on your screen thats an RGB filter, then there is aspect ratios, and please please don't let DaveC see this. Personally I'm a scanline man always have been always will be. I like an improved experience to my gaming. Son't care about acurate just want the fun

 

[lucoxade]

Also when using PAL or NTSC you get a slight anti-aliased appearance to pixels on a TV

 

[x68000]

what i meant was in a smaller window the pixelisation looks more acceptable compared to full screen as it is less noticable.

With regards to the TV part, all i was saying was that these games were designed to be played on a home console through your tv and not using a monitor.

 

[0-bake]

i have a p3-700MHz plugged to my tv and i have 2 PSX pads plugged to the pc via usb.
it's perfect for playing snes/genesis. you can't see the difference to the original consoles.

 

[Epicenter]

Well, the thing with XScale is it usually has a graphics chip that supports everything that Snes9x needs, so it might be a slower CPU is OK when the GPU the brunt of the hard stuff. I was reading further into the Zaurus and it runs full speed with sound with the XScale's graphics chip. Although if one CPU worked on the basic graphics and sound and the other on transparencies and such I think it will run full speed. I think why GPH put two CPUs and no GPUs is it's easier to emulate things rather than work with Intel's hardware at them embedded level, which I hear is pretty hard. Until they can put a nVidia, ATI, or another companies GPU in that is easy to program for I don't think they'll put GPU's in.

What? No, you'e got it all wrong. First off, XScales are CPUs, not full system solutions. They do not combine a GPU into themselves, this is a feature that must be added by the PocketPC manufacturer. The ONLY PocketPCs I am aware of, and I've done much research into this, are Dell's Axim x50v and Toshiba's e740/e750/e755. These each use their custom API which has no real common standard yet, and almost 0 software exists yet to take advantage of either. At any rate, to accelerate SNES video operations, an emulator would need to translate instructions to the emulated VDP to instructions in the API of a 2D Accelerator whose very design is to operate in the narrow scope of the Windows Mobile operating system. The output of this chip would be instructions understood only by the OS, not by the 65c816 in the SNES-- the output would be worthless. In short, you could not easily accelerate an emulated SNES using a properitary 2D processor like that in very few PocketPCs.

Bottom line-- No SNES emulator for PocketPC or ANY platform uses any sort of hardware acceleration for its VDP functionality because it is nearly impossible, and prohibitively difficult and laden with overhead that would negate the helpfulness of offloading work onto a GPU in the first place.

Furthermore, the 2nd CPU in the system is intended primarily for video functionality. Not only was it selected specifically for use in video decompression, and scaling, but also for 2D graphics blitting for acceleration of graphics operations in games (e.g. via SDL's SMP blitting options for defined screens). It's not a special-purpose CPU but it is certainly being used as a "GPU" of sorts, or in a broader definition of the chip in the context of the GP2x's functionality, a specialized video helper chip.

I suspect GPH didn't elect to include a GPU because:

- 1. The intended primary function of the system wasn't to provide high-end 3D visuals, because a homebrew development scene isn't going to produce eninges with incredible graphics quickly while getting the hang of a complex 3D API. SDL was clearly selected for its age, tried-and-true nature, simplicity, and enormous quantities of documentation.

- 2. Power use-- GPUs use gobs of power compared to the ridiculously power-efficient ARM9 architecture. This is why the machine can get over 8-14 hours of operation under heavy loads. If nVidia and ARM's cooperative efforts come to fruition we may someday soon see ARM11 based GPUs that can be used in portables with only a minor hit to battery life-- right now what will really hog power in the GP2x, as well as in the DS and other ARM9 based portables, is actually the display, as the CPU uses scarcely over 1 watt of power even at 200 MHz!

(More info on nVidia/ARM's collaboration here: http://www.physorg.com/news4323.html)

- 3. API -- it would be far more complex to push out the door, and to develop good documentation and a comprehensive SDK for, a complex API like that which a GPU utilizes, e.g. OpenGL-- modern graphics cards have big, fat complex drivers feeding instructions to a BIOS interpreting the API and calling the shots for the GPU. This is a LOT of overhead for a portable device, and we probably won't see a commonly accepted GPU for portable devices until a lightweight API that can operate in more tight coordination between the software and the GPU with less intermediaries is formed and standardized.

 

[Epicenter]

no, the graphics were never blocky in the way they are displayed on a monitor, hence the need for all these software filters.

Remember that the resoloution displayed on a tv set is way lower than any you use on your monitor, and since all the games were designed for use on a tv, the only way the games look authentic on your monitor will be if you play them in a small window.

​

eh, I was with you for a little while there. Apart from TV technology taking a step forward. No matter how small a window you play it will look pixelated. A OLD TV technology is make up of three colour (RED BLUE GREEN), If you want a real experience you would go for a filter on your screen thats an RGB filter, then there is aspect ratios, and please please don't let DaveC see this. Personally I'm a scanline man always have been always will be. I like an improved experience to my gaming. Son't care about acurate just want the fun

​

x68000 is exactly right-- televisions use a form of color compression forcing the red, green and blue color streams into one composite stream over well, Composite :lol: or RF. This combined with the analog nature of the video, blurs together pixels in such a fashion as to reduce the apparent effects of dithering. If I can take a quote from one of the producers of Ecco the Dolphin 2 for MegaDrive/Genesis, a console with only 64 max colors onscreen at a time:

Never can do a same quality art on a VGA display. I mean the composite video is so different, like an antialiasing module.

If the word of a game designer doesn't say it, nothing does. :lol: This is exactly why emulators use things like blur filters, to try and simulate this. They never really succeed, though. And it'll never look right blowing up a 320x224 or so image to 1024x768 or higher on a digital display, while on an analog one you can head up to 2048x1536 or higher and still see 0 quality degredation.

EDIT: Take a look at a comparison between Digital output from an emulator (inset, upper left .. keep an eye on the sprites), and Analog output from a TV. Note how the analog version looks like it had a few thousand colors added out of nowhere forming perfect gradients. The Digital version looks pixellacious.

 

[Cyclops]

I've never really understood the whole original/accuracy emulation thing. I personally have always been drawn to those projects that try and enhance the gameing experience. Look at how much better raine is for playing games than mame, or look at the groups trying to put hi-res textures in N64 games. Hell have a look at all the hi-resolution textures for duke/doom/quake etc. Many of the remakes for old games, are better than the original, look at projects like oolite/kq remakes.

I don't think I could play original elite again after playing oolite. I actually didn't post a comment about BBC emulation because even though I want it more than any other emulation. I'm not sure I could go back. I thought life couldn't get any better than Stryker's Run.

To be honest I'm sure I would prefer a growing BOR scene to snes emulation, and working openmugen instead of neo-geo(esp if it where to take advantage of the the new funky 2D features. I think these type of project show a way forward

Epicenter: did you even read my post

 

[Jarska333]

I seem to recall, that LJGP had some setting for double the number of sprites. Those kind of things are good additions.

After reading Epicenters page on overclocking MD, I'm wondering, if DrMD suffers from limitations of the original hardware, is it perfectly emulated, so to speak, or if Reesy has actually aimed for "perfect" emulation, as in, how the gamemakers wanted the game to run, without slowdowns and such.

Just a random thought.

 

[reallynotnick]

Anybody else notice how blurry the analog picture is?!?!

God I love my nice sharp lcd, I feel like my eyes are out of focus when look at the analog picture.


Side thought, with the 'HD era' appon us, what do you think of HD 2-D games? Whouldn't that look SOO awsome, the sprites would be awsome. Just think of it we have 320x224 (which looks fine) and then have it change to 1280x720 or even 1920x1080!! Plus we have millions of colors now, and well there really is no hardware limitation now.

 

[Epicenter]

Anybody else notice how blurry the analog picture is?!?!

Side thought, with the 'HD era' appon us, what do you think of HD 2-D games? Whouldn't that look SOO awsome, the sprites would be awsome. Just think of it we have 320x224 (which looks fine) and then have it change to 1280x720 or even 1920x1080!! Plus we have millions of colors now, and well there really is no hardware limitation now.

​

It only looks blurry up close. This photo is right near the screen. B)

It can be really hard to draw sprites with as much detail at larger resolutions, actually. May not really be that helpful.

 

[x68000]

if you have been brought up playing games running full screen at 60Hz on a CRT TV via S-Video or RGB Scart, playing them on an emu on your PC is a soulless experience. The speed and the sound may be there, but the graphics issue is a big no. Obviously, Mame doesnt suffer in this way, but little else escapes the nasty pixelisation you get playing these games on a Hi-Res screen.

I'm going to hook up an old PC to a 37" CRT to see how snes9x looks on there!

 

[Nuron_V]

I don't pretend to understand coding to this level...or any level to that matter.
Just to put a extra irritating spanner in the works, I assume emulating the SuperFX chip well is going to be some what difficult.
Is it run on a seperate section of code in the emulator which is called apon if the chip is present? Excuse me if that is a stupid and ignorant point.
I remember it being said (can't find the exact quote) by the makers of the chip that all the Snes really did was work as a power supply to it, although it really is a simple gpu.
Anyway for the foreseeable future i assume there isn't a hope in hell of it running the Starfox 2 beta.