Gp2x Snes! For The Win

[Rayek]

Has anyone even fully (or at all) utilized the second processor? Maybe I have this wrong, but I was under the assumption that it would boost Emulation far beyond what the PSP could acheive (barring, of course, PSX).

Oh, now I remember, it's something about timing that prevents the second processor running at full... Still, it should help quite a bit.

 

[gaterooze]

All I can say is: be patient and have faith in Squidge

 

[WhiteFalcon]

Has anyone even fully (or at all) utilized the second processor? Maybe I have this wrong, but I was under the assumption that it would boost Emulation far beyond what the PSP could acheive (barring, of course, PSX).

Oh, now I remember, it's something about timing that prevents the second processor running at full... Still, it should help quite a bit.

​

I don't think PSX is right out of the way. If the 2D acceleration capabilities of the 2nd cpu are used, it could allow for the 2D games for the PSX. There are many of them and are actually more tempting to me than the 3D ones. Imagining Abe's Oddysee on the GP2X makes me drool with anticipation ;o)

 

[racoon]

As far as I know there is no program out there for the GP2X which actually uses the 2nd processor... The PSX emulator author tried it I think but it didn't work as expected. The PSP is out for almost a year... the GP2X for some months...
I do not know the exact specs of a SNES but I don't really see a problem if we can have perfect Genesis Emulation and lateron use all the hardware power the gp2x has got

 

[Radek]

Well, in the SNES, the sound chip is very loosely coupled to the main processor, so offloading its work to the 2nd CPU shouldn't be a problem. Then it's just down to transparencies... I'm not sure if a concensus was reached as to whether the 2d acceleration functions can help there.

​

Snes's sound chip was quite sophisticated at its time but it's not unmanageable. It has clockrate of only 1MHz and there are shortcuts (using less taps for filters than in original snes). Compare it to the 200mips of every of gp2x's cpu cores. Compare the whole snes (using the wikipedia for an example) to systems such megadriva and pc-engine. You will see that it those machine aren't overall much weaker and in some aspect even more powerfull than the snes. I'm bringing it because we have much better emus of those yet not that good snes's one.

Is that because gp2x is lacking power? Imho no... Software developments aren't predicable - look how everyone was suprised with PSX1 and Jaguar emus.
(thought they have a long road before them but fact they showed counts much)

 

[Squidge]

Actually, the SNES's sound chip is 2.48Mhz.

I feel that the Megadrive is much simpler to emulate to the snes simply due to the fact that it has a flat memory space and two standard processors, along with a not overley complex graphics processor that is well documented, so lots of optimisations can be done.

The SNES, on the other hand, has several memory configurations based on the inserted rom, a main processor that effectively changes speed depending on the type of rom it's reading, the sound CPU + dedicated DSP and the processors that takes most of the work - the dual graphics processors with there ability to do scaling, rotation, mosaic, virtual screens, transparency, window effects, coloured lenses, etc.

Speed wise, the dual graphics processors in the snes always take up most of the emulation time. If you didn't have to emulate those, you could easily get a constant 60fps, but that's no good if all you have is a blank screen

Then again, I'm attempting to make the most out of the 2x and try and create a usable snes emu.

 

[Radek]

Actually, the SNES's sound chip is 2.48Mhz.

Good to know - the wikipedia snes's entry isn't accurate then.

I feel that the Megadrive is much simpler to emulate to the snes simply due to the fact that it has a flat memory space and two standard processors, along with a not overley complex graphics processor that is well documented, so lots of optimisations can be done.

The SNES, on the other hand, has several memory configurations based on the inserted rom, a main processor that effectively changes speed depending on the type of rom it's reading, the sound CPU + dedicated DSP and the processors that takes most of the work - the dual graphics processors with there ability to do scaling, rotation, mosaic, virtual screens, transparency, window effects, coloured lenses, etc.

Speed wise, the dual graphics processors in the snes always take up most of the emulation time. If you didn't have to emulate those, you could easily get a constant 60fps, but that's no good if all you have is a blank screen

Then sound chip of snes will not slowdown emulation that much.

Then again, I'm attempting to make the most out of the 2x and try and create a usable snes emu.

​

It will be interesting.

 

[Paradox]

well wikipedia isnt always right, as proven right here

 

[Lodis]

EDIT: Accidental Browser refresh caused missing text, dont know how to delete post. Sorry

 

[Lodis]

I got my self a PSP today well its fun and the games you have to buy are amazing but as for emulation its not even close to the gp2x... the snes emulator is like alittle ahead of the gp2x's emulator psp's emulator like 75% done and the gp2x is like 70% its just the PSP has been out longer.

​

You are correct, emulation is not close to the gp2x, it is way ahead of it. The Snes emulator on the Psp is no where near 75% done it is more like 96%++ done. Assuming you are talking about the best Snes emulator avaliable which would be Snes TYL 0.2C with the correct settings.

I have noticed lately that many statements regarding sub standard Psp emulation are due to misinformation, incorrect settings or simply not knowing what is the best availiable or how to use it. If you use for example Snes9x, even set to 333mhz, you will notice many slow downs in alot of games but if you use Snes TYL 0.2C, many games run at full speed.

In my opinion, one of the main reasons for Snes TYL's better performance is that the programmer uses some of the Psp 3D GPU to take some of the load away from the main CPU.

after testing emulation out at frist hand and seeing how much trouble it is to hack the damn thing

​

To install emulators under a Psp that has 1.5 firmware you do the following:

For example Snes TYL, unzip Snes TYL.zip file onto your hard drive, you will see a SnesTYL% and a SnesTYL folder, put your Psp into USB Mode, copy both Snes folders to your Game directory, place all Snes roms inside of the folder that does not have the '%' sign after it. After this, disable USB Mode in the Psp, navigate to Games and then select the Snes Icon. That is it, Snes is now installed. Lots of trouble? I dont think so. There are also tools that automate the installation for you as well.


To install emulators under firmware 2.0 is slightly more involved but an easy way is to download either the Fanjita or Choice eboot loader zip file, place your Psp into USB Mode, if the loader you want to use is Fanjitas standard one, simply extract its contents directly to the root of your Psp memory stick, after this place the folder for any emulator that does not have the '%' after it into the Psp game directory including the roms you want to use, restart your Psp, go to the photo menu and then preview the image, the eboot loader will run and you simply select the emulator from the list.

If you are using the Choice eboot loader you simply extract the contents of it and put its entire folder into the Psp Photo directory, then you put the emulator folder in game. Sound very difficult? I dont think so.

and how little space it is unless you want to spend mad money on one of those psp memory cards or try to keep your hand steady to solder to make a SD converter if you have the spare parts....

​

The Memory cards are expensive but if you are only going to use emulators like Snes, GBC, Sega, C64, Nes etc then simply ensure all of your roms are compressed using Winzip at maximum compression since all of these emulators support zip. Even if you wish to use NeoCD emulation, it now supports fast zip compression so that is no longer a problem either. There are also card convertors that have been created, I do not know of any SD but I have heard of CF convertors.

now i truely see how great the gp2x is frist hand keep up the great work devs you'll take hand held emulation to a new extreme! I will say i had doubt for awail but i am real glad i got a gp2x another happy customer here.

​

I too think the GP2X has a great future, huge potential and a long life, however I will not deny that the Psp is a truly excellent emulation device and will continue to be so. Even with all of the restrictions Sony imposes, it still manages to play full speed Snes, full speed NeoCD, full speed GBC, full speed Genesis and the list goes on. The more that is understood about the Psp GPU in the future I think the more emulation will improve, particularly Playstation 1 emulation. This is part of why the NeoCD emulator on the Psp is one of the best I have ever used, it has hardware acceleration. The Psp also gives you the option between analogue and control pad for control in these emulators, for example Scumm uses the analogue control amd GBC can use either / both.

 

[codeninja]

Compare the whole snes (using the wikipedia for an example) to systems such megadriva and pc-engine. You will see that it those machine aren't overall much weaker and in some aspect even more powerfull than the snes. I'm bringing it because we have much better emus of those yet not that good snes's one.

SNes hardware is doing a whole lot more than Megadrive or PC Engine. SNES has 3 layers of bg, hardware scaling/rotation, and transparecy that proved to be pain to emulate, while Megadrive has 2 layers and PC Engine has only ONE layer! SNes/GBA hardware has very optimized (and hacked ) hardware like GameCube is. Simply comparing 3.58Mhz CPU with lots of custom hardware around it with a 200Mhz CPU on its own is not quite fair.

In 1994, SNES with 3.58Mhz CPU and 64KB of VRAM ($99), and a typical 486 66Mhz PC with 4MB of memory ($2000) were comparable when it comes to handling 2D games (what SNES meant to do) back in the day. My point is that you have to see the whole system to judge the performance, way more than just CPU clock speed.

 

[gaterooze]

I think we're forgetting that while PSP emulation has a year's head start and is very good right now, the hardware problems remain: awful D-pad, terrible ghosting (and stretching for some) on the screen, and worse battery life than the GP2X. I played Super Metroid on SNESTYL for a while and it was a seasick-inducing chore.

Add Linux and the open source community, the GP2X will eventually be THE choice for handheld emulation.

btw, this is not a total PSP bash -- I'll likely still get a PSP for the commercial games, once more decent ones are released (and the hardware cost falls).

 

[Radek]

Compare the whole snes (using the wikipedia for an example) to systems such megadriva and pc-engine. You will see that it those machine aren't overall much weaker and in some aspect even more powerfull than the snes. I'm bringing it because we have much better emus of those yet not that good snes's one.

SNes hardware is doing a whole lot more than Megadrive or PC Engine. SNES has 3 layers of bg, hardware scaling/rotation, and transparecy that proved to be pain to emulate, while Megadrive has 2 layers and PC Engine has only ONE layer! SNes/GBA hardware has very optimized (and hacked ) hardware like GameCube is. Simply comparing 3.58Mhz CPU with lots of custom hardware around it with a 200Mhz CPU on its own is not quite fair.

A scalar cpu with 32bit width of ALU and memory bus. And yes - the gp2x has some hardware coprocessors too.

In 1994, SNES with 3.58Mhz CPU and 64KB of VRAM ($99), and a typical 486 66Mhz PC with 4MB of memory ($2000) were comparable when it comes to handling 2D games (what SNES meant to do) back in the day. My point is that you have to see the whole system to judge the performance, way more than just CPU clock speed.

​

The 486DX and localbus SVGA is superior to any machine at this time. Look at the Doom for an example - there were far more things to do every pixel than snes had ever to do. This is only programers deficiency that PC wasn't that good at "2d". Even VGA has hardware scrolling and ability to set up to 4 pixels at once but most of software were using the 13H mode instead of the "X-Mode".

The puny Atari ST could have fast 2d using only 68000@8MHz (around 1mips) even with parallax scrolling (Turricans' later levels are showing that very well) so why machine with far more potent hardware (VGA) and drastically faster cpu could not?

And when comparing consoles' prices keep in a mind that Nintendo could sell at loss and regain money at every title sold.

 

[Targus]

yeah every one brings good points but its always a conflict on wich one is better...

 

[Paradox]

the PSP is like trying to modify a fridge freezer to cook food, wheras the gp2x is an oven, it was made to cook food.# by default.

theres also the fact that the PSP's screen sucks, its widescreen, and poo for old retro games.

the psp is a fashion acessory with a small following of true gamers and devs...

gp2x is a proper geeks gadjet =)

some of the reasons why i'd pick a 2x over a psp anyway.

oh and i think sony sucks overall anyway too but thats just me.

 

[Drak]

the PSP is like trying to modify a fridge freezer to cook food, wheras the gp2x is an oven, it was made to cook food.# by default.

theres also the fact that the PSP's screen sucks, its widescreen, and poo for old retro games.

the psp is a fashion acessory with a small following of true gamers and devs...

gp2x is a proper geeks gadjet =)

some of the reasons why i'd pick a 2x over a psp anyway.

oh and i think sony sucks overall anyway too but thats just me.

​

Yeah , honestly they are such filthy people.

First they release the Playstation 1. Everyone is like. HOLY!
Then they release the Ps One which is like 1/2 the size of a normal one, everyones like .omg must buy!

Then shortly after, or around the same time the dasterdly PS2 is released, .not bad
Then.. this new miniture PS2 THIN thing comes out and everyone is like .wow what a neat idea!

You dont see xbox, or gamecube doing that crap. Its like the worst way of marketing because some people have a mental disorder to buy things that are smaller (for instance, my bro waited till the small ps2 came out to buy it. ]


whats Next for sony? PPSP? Peewee Play Station Portable?
We will see!

 

[Targus]

the PSP is like trying to modify a fridge freezer to cook food, wheras the gp2x is an oven, it was made to cook food.# by default.

theres also the fact that the PSP's screen sucks, its widescreen, and poo for old retro games.

the psp is a fashion acessory with a small following of true gamers and devs...

gp2x is a proper geeks gadjet =)

some of the reasons why i'd pick a 2x over a psp anyway.

oh and i think sony sucks overall anyway too but thats just me.

​

Yeah , honestly they are such filthy people.

First they release the Playstation 1. Everyone is like. HOLY!
Then they release the Ps One which is like 1/2 the size of a normal one, everyones like .omg must buy!

Then shortly after, or around the same time the dasterdly PS2 is released, .not bad
Then.. this new miniture PS2 THIN thing comes out and everyone is like .wow what a neat idea!

You dont see xbox, or gamecube doing that crap. Its like the worst way of marketing because some people have a mental disorder to buy things that are smaller (for instance, my bro waited till the small ps2 came out to buy it. ]


whats Next for sony? PPSP? Peewee Play Station Portable?
We will see!

​

your forgetting about the playstation v2 there was 2 version of the normal playstation well 3 inculding the small ps1

 

[declaration]

the PSP is like trying to modify a fridge freezer to cook food, wheras the gp2x is an oven, it was made to cook food.# by default.

theres also the fact that the PSP's screen sucks, its widescreen, and poo for old retro games.

the psp is a fashion acessory with a small following of true gamers and devs...

gp2x is a proper geeks gadjet =)

some of the reasons why i'd pick a 2x over a psp anyway.

oh and i think sony sucks overall anyway too but thats just me.

​

Yeah , honestly they are such filthy people.

First they release the Playstation 1. Everyone is like. HOLY!
Then they release the Ps One which is like 1/2 the size of a normal one, everyones like .omg must buy!

Then shortly after, or around the same time the dasterdly PS2 is released, .not bad
Then.. this new miniture PS2 THIN thing comes out and everyone is like .wow what a neat idea!

You dont see xbox, or gamecube doing that crap. Its like the worst way of marketing because some people have a mental disorder to buy things that are smaller (for instance, my bro waited till the small ps2 came out to buy it. ]


whats Next for sony? PPSP? Peewee Play Station Portable?
We will see!

​

You do talk some shit, dont you?

What is wrong with Sony bringing out a better product that does the same thing years after bringing out the first? Its like saying that they should only have made one VHS recorder ever and never bothered improving its design because a few morons would feel the need to own them both.

And btw- Nintendo have a history of updating console designs. From the smaller Gameboys to the SP and Micro to having different colour N64s and Gamecubes. MS also improved the design of the Xbox joypad to make it smaller and nicer.

The Gamecube didnt need to be smaller, and the Xbox probably couldnt have been due to the necessary built in hard drive.

 

[Drak]

your forgetting about the playstation v2 there was 2 version of the normal playstation well 3 inculding the small ps1

​

Never heard of that one , but what did it add?

 

[nickspoon]

You dont see xbox, or gamecube doing that crap. Its like the worst way of marketing because some people have a mental disorder to buy things that are smaller (for instance, my bro waited till the small ps2 came out to buy it. ]

whats Next for sony? PPSP? Peewee Play Station Portable?
We will see!

Everybody raise their hands if they want an Xbox that can fit in a house!

I think it should be the PSAFT, or Playstation Absolutely Fucking Tiny. It'd be the size of your fingernail and impossible to play.

Of course, there has been rumour that in the year 2020, you'll have a credit-card sized device that will play 3D games, act as a phone, give you internet access and not be an N-Gage from Sony. The Sony PS-Gage. Small as a credit card, nowhere near as useful.