Pandora's Gui? Will It Even Have One?

[dflemstr]

[ ... ] I am kind of scared of having to learn Linux command lines to do stuff like make VOIP phone calls over my 3G modem or just boot up an emulator.

The common fear of command-line interface (CLI) is unwarranted. You just type in commands to run programs. The commands often accept parameters, which in some cases require a little more extensive knowledge on what you're doing. There's no magic, you just specify what is it exactly that you want to achieve. Usually things follow logic, but you will most probably run into some rather counter-intuitive approaches and specifications. If you don't possess that "extensive knowledge", you ask the community and they help you. The comforting fact is that the knowledge does exist.

In my opinion if you handle arithmetic, can contain in memory the names of all your friends and your home address, then you have sufficient cognitive capacity to use CLI.

You make it sound way more complicated than it really is (no offense, but remember that this probably is a Windows user and not an Ubuntu initiate)
I would explain it like this:
1. The command line is a tool on which you write what the computer should do, and the computer then does what you tell it and prints the result.
2. Comptuers don't understand english, so you use special commands to make it understand what you mean. So, instead of saying 'Make a new directory with the name "directory5"', you say "mkdir directory5". Instead of "Shutdown my computer", you say "halt". Etc.
3. Commands have very clever names, and it's most of the time possible to tell what they do just by looking at them. Sometimes, however, it can be good to get some help. That is done by using the man command. So if you don't know what "aptitude" does (I don't blame you), simply type "man aptitude" and you'll get the answer
4. You can of course also ask other people if you need further assistance.

 

[femngi]

We all know CLI is super awesome but there's no need to try and convert everyone you meet. To the OP I'd say: Everything you would expect to be able to do will be easy and point'n'click. If you want to start hacking away then that's awesome and the CLI is available for that.

 

[God Ginrai]

Oh, and Please mark any posts you make with "IDIOT" so I can "stay the hell away from it." 0

See, that's not nice.

I'm just replying in kind.

There's a couple ways of doing this. The way I think is most appropriate is for the PNDs to track their changes in a master log on the SD card, which then would be scanned by the system, and when it finds PNDs that aren't on the SD listed there, it reverses the necessary changes and removes that listing from the master log.

-God Ginrai

Which is 100% exploitable by anything malicious.

If there's some sort of .pnd installer app, it could track changes and store them in a secure location, but giving any power at all to the .pnd to modify the system(or *gasp* relying on it to track its own changes) is just asking for trouble.

WizardStan and I have pointed out time and again that the PND would never modify the system with this method. I don't know where you are getting that idea.

I'm just a Linux user who has had a GP2X since it came out. I learned with linux, and especially the GP2X that if you want something and no devs want to code it, you better be able to code it or offer enough money to make a competent dev change their mind.The Pandora will not have applications unless devs wish to code for it.

True. Devs like Pickle are invaluable, but I don't think he's doing anything that requires automatic installation?

All devs are invaluable. I don't care if they make something I am completely uninterested in. As long as they are competent, they are valuable. Because they have the capability of making something you want. Sure people like Pickle have ported a lot of apps, but there's people like dflemster who you haven't shown respect to who have done a lot of the needed work behind the scenes. (OS, WiFi, PND system, etc.) Don't just pick and choose.



-God Ginrai

 

[dflemstr]

We all know CLI is super awesome but there's no need to try and convert everyone you meet. To the OP I'd say: Everything you would expect to be able to do will be easy and point'n'click. If you want to start hacking away then that's awesome and the CLI is available for that.

+1. I didn't say that I wanted to convert anyone.

 

[God Ginrai]

We all know CLI is super awesome but there's no need to try and convert everyone you meet. To the OP I'd say: Everything you would expect to be able to do will be easy and point'n'click. If you want to start hacking away then that's awesome and the CLI is available for that.

+1. I didn't say that I wanted to convert anyone.

But we know you want to. But I completely understand what you mean. I use terminal a lot.

-God Ginrai

 

[dflemstr]

We all know CLI is super awesome but there's no need to try and convert everyone you meet. To the OP I'd say: Everything you would expect to be able to do will be easy and point'n'click. If you want to start hacking away then that's awesome and the CLI is available for that.

+1. I didn't say that I wanted to convert anyone.

But we know you want to. But I completely understand what you mean. I use terminal a lot.

Actually, I really, really do not
Did my answer imply otherwise? I know that my english isn't perfect...

EDIT: Oh, wait, did I mix up two threads? or has some weird thread splitting happened? Because my post now exists in two places. Gah, maybe I should just go to sleep, it's like 2 am here.

 

[Monk]

We all know CLI is super awesome but there's no need to try and convert everyone you meet. To the OP I'd say: Everything you would expect to be able to do will be easy and point'n'click. If you want to start hacking away then that's awesome and the CLI is available for that.

+1. I didn't say that I wanted to convert anyone.

But we know you want to.

But I completely understand what you mean. I use terminal a lot.

-God Ginrai

+1

 

[midna25]

Didn't you already make this thread? And didn't we tell you clearly that the Pandora has a nice, intuitive, n00b friendly graphical interface that will require no special knowledge to use? Trust me there's nothing to worry about. It's just like operating your desktop computer.

 

[deadfishes]

I would like any hand held device to be "easier" than any desktop computer. I am going to have a thumb board and a stylus, not a mouse and a keyboard and a nice big screen. I would like it to be like a game park, game wiz, iPhone or anything else of that nature.

I am not trying to be difficult, snobby or as you super friendly people say "n00bish", but will not "learn" command lines to operate a hand held system, period and thank God the Pandora team isn't going to try and make me.

I find that clicking on an icon is far faster and easier than memorizing "parameters" (along with the rest of the modern world) and God knows what else you mentioned in that attempt to make it seem like command lines are better than icons. I'm not a stranger to typing. I own a IBM Model M and can go over 120wpm on a good day. Now, "If" you already have them memorized, great, I'm sure you may be able to do some things faster with them than with the "plug and play" that Pandora seems to have. Having the functionality there I suppose adds to the "cool" factor of the device, but it doesn't gain it any points with me because I have no use for it.

I don't want to support Apple's crap, I don't want to support Microsoft's crap, and if there is a product "on par" with it, never mind better, why would I? I am seeing my Pandora as a 3GS or Windows 7 mobile PDA replacement. Some open office apps, some emulators, nice touch screen, bluetooth ect.. sounds kick'n.

Thanks to everyone who has posted. I did post this before and it was taken down. I thought I'd throw it back up again and try to get some good answers before I started shaking down Pandora sales trying to get a refund. I'm pretty at ease about the purchase now. I only hope the pandora phone / 3G modem app will run purely though the GUI.

P.S.
I think the linux nerds should be nicer to people who are crossing over from something like the iPhone and giving the Pandora a chance to take it's place. The more people like me willing to do that, the more money there will be to invest in these sorts of projects that are much more suited to your taste and technical sensibility.

 

[God Ginrai]

I would like any hand held device to be "easier" than any desktop computer. I am going to have a thumb board and a stylus, not a mouse and a keyboard and a nice big screen. I would like it to be like a game park, game wiz, iPhone or anything else of that nature.

I am not trying to be difficult, snobby or as you super friendly people say "n00bish", but will not "learn" command lines to operate a hand held system, period and thank God the Pandora team isn't going to try and make me.

I find that clicking on an icon is far faster and easier than memorizing "parameters" (along with the rest of the modern world) and God knows what else you mentioned in that attempt to make it seem like command lines are better than icons. I'm not a stranger to typing. I own a IBM Model M and can go over 120wpm on a good day. Now, "If" you already have them memorized, great, I'm sure you may be able to do some things faster with them than with the "plug and play" that Pandora seems to have. Having the functionality there I suppose adds to the "cool" factor of the device, but it doesn't gain it any points with me because I have no use for it.

I don't want to support Apple's crap, I don't want to support Microsoft's crap, and if there is a product "on par" with it, never mind better, why would I? I am seeing my Pandora as a 3GS or Windows 7 mobile PDA replacement. Some open office apps, some emulators, nice touch screen, bluetooth ect.. sounds kick'n.

P.S.
I think the linux nerds should be nicer to people who are crossing over from something like the iPhone and giving the Pandora a chance to take it's place. The more people like me willing to do that, the more money there will be to invest in these sorts of projects that are much more suited to your taste and technical sensibility.

Thanks to everyone who has posted. I did post this before and it was taken down. I thought I'd throw it back up again and try to get some good answers before I started shaking down Pandora sales trying to get a refund. I'm pretty at ease about the purchase now. I only hope the pandora phone / 3G modem app will run purely though the GUI.

It pretty much *is* point and click icons on any desktop PC that uses Windows. And that's what they were talking about it being as easy to use as a desktop PC. For most Pandora applications, you can expect there to be a GUI, however that never means that all of them will have one. It is up to the dev to decide.

Also, I just want to hopefully clear up any misunderstandings. The Pandora is not a viable replacement for an iPhone, but rather for an iPod Touch. The Pandora has no cell antenna and it can't be guaranteed that all the necessary apps for working around that fact to still use it as a phone will get ported in any reasonable amount of time, if at all.

-God Ginrai

 

[Sphinxter]

Separate the applicaton, (games, engines, utilities, demos), goes in PND, from the OS, (rc, daemon, service, anything on nand), goes in ipkg, seems simple enough. A user will have to initiate an application's execution, does not seem like too much of a limitation to me, especially since the user won't be booting it continuously like other systems. Am I wrong or are there any limitations on what your application does after it's launched, could it see the sd cards, find an add-on packed in a zip? I still cannot see anything to not like about it.

 

[deadfishes]

Also, I just want to hopefully clear up any misunderstandings. The Pandora is not a viable replacement for an iPhone, but rather for an iPod Touch. The Pandora has no cell antenna and it can't be guaranteed that all the necessary apps for working around that fact to still use it as a phone will get ported in any reasonable amount of time, if at all.

-God Ginrai

I take it you don't have a ton of faith in the Pandora Phone project?

 

[God Ginrai]

Also, I just want to hopefully clear up any misunderstandings. The Pandora is not a viable replacement for an iPhone, but rather for an iPod Touch. The Pandora has no cell antenna and it can't be guaranteed that all the necessary apps for working around that fact to still use it as a phone will get ported in any reasonable amount of time, if at all.

-God Ginrai

I take it you don't have a ton of faith in the Pandora Phone project?

It's not that I don't have faith in it. However, I wouldn't give up use of my phone to get something to replace it when the feature is only an idea (or in early stages of development) at the time. I mean, a phone is an important thing to have.

-God Ginrai

 

[femngi]

I think the linux nerds should be nicer to people who are crossing over from something like the iPhone and giving the Pandora a chance to take it's place. The more people like me willing to do that, the more money there will be to invest in these sorts of projects that are much more suited to your taste and technical sensibility.

If us linux nerds were nicer to people then maybe we would have more friends and then I wouldn't be posting on this forum at 2AM
Stereotypes aside though, one thing you should learn about the community is that everyone in constantly trying to one up each other with how religiously efficient and minimal their setup is. My advice would be to be to just choose how you want to do things and ignore the fanatics. I get a lot of stick for using a dock but if I'm happy with it then why should anyone else care?
There seems to be far too much resistance on this forum to making the pandora user friendly, even when it doesn't hinder anyone.
Sorry, all that was pretty off topic.

 

[God Ginrai]

There seems to be far too much resistance on this forum to making the pandora user friendly, even when it doesn't hinder anyone.

Ummm.... Maybe you don't understand correctly, but the PND system has made the Pandora very user friendly. As for the applications themselves being user-friendly, that's up to the devs who code them, just like on any system.

-God Ginrai

 

[midna25]

I think the linux nerds should be nicer to people who are crossing over from something like the iPhone and giving the Pandora a chance to take it's place. The more people like me willing to do that, the more money there will be to invest in these sorts of projects that are much more suited to your taste and technical sensibility.

If us linux nerds were nicer to people then maybe we would have more friends and then I wouldn't be posting on this forum at 2AM
There seems to be far too much resistance on this forum to making the pandora user friendly, even when it doesn't hinder anyone.
Sorry, all that was pretty off topic.

We aren't opposed to making the Pandora user friendly. We're opposed to people who are so lazy that they think there should be a link on the desktop to copyrighted video codecs, so we don't have to download it off the file archive.

 

[femngi]

There seems to be far too much resistance on this forum to making the pandora user friendly, even when it doesn't hinder anyone.

Ummm.... Maybe you don't understand correctly, but the PND system has made the Pandora very user friendly. As for the applications themselves being user-friendly, that's up to the devs who code them, just like on any system.

-God Ginrai

I think PND is fantastic I really do. I was thinking more that we will see a lot more newcomers in here and not all of them are going to appreciate being told that they should do everything in CLI because it's more efficient, I think it's great that everyone's enthusiastic but the OP was probably just expecting a quick and short answer as most casual users will. Despite what some would claim having the pandora as a commercial success instead of an extremely small niche will have an important positive effect.
Sorry if all this is rather terse, I'm a little short on sleep.

 

[God Ginrai]

There seems to be far too much resistance on this forum to making the pandora user friendly, even when it doesn't hinder anyone.

Ummm.... Maybe you don't understand correctly, but the PND system has made the Pandora very user friendly. As for the applications themselves being user-friendly, that's up to the devs who code them, just like on any system.

-God Ginrai

I think PND is fantastic I really do. I was thinking more that we will see a lot more newcomers in here and not all of them are going to appreciate being told that they should do everything in CLI because it's more efficient, I think it's great that everyone's enthusiastic but the OP was probably just expecting a quick and short answer as most casual users will. Despite what some would claim having the pandora as a commercial success instead of an extremely small niche will have an important positive effect.
Sorry if all this is rather terse, I'm a little short on sleep.

To tell you the truth, I haven't really seen too many people preaching terminal on these forums, and I've been here since the GP2X came out. Trust me, once the Pandora comes out, these forums will be filled with a lot more people telling people to use the search function or telling people that ports require source than there will be people preaching the wonders of CLI.

-God Ginrai

 

[deadfishes]

that's up to the devs who code them, just like on any system.

-God Ginrai

This is totally untrue, no other system would give an SDK or publishing rights to make anything for their system that required use of re-vamped UNIX command lines.

The fanatics are running the show her. If the Linux nerds are not going to be nice to an art student like me, then I'm out of luck because I am depending on them to make plug-and-chug apps. Since the lunatics are running the asylum, I am pretty much at their mercy in terms of making easy to use VOIP or cellphone stuff.

 

[fiori_musicali]

I am also not looking to convert anyone. I don't have any interest in that.

In fact, as I am a fanatic, close-minded CLI and Linux zealot, the less people can do what I can, the more it strokes my inflated ego.

Prejudice aside, I firmly believe in what I wrote earlier (though dflemstr may have put it better), and am trying to demystify the CLI for those who are less familiar with it. I think a lot of the fear stems from lack of continuous real-time visual output and that makes new users uncomfortable with the interface. This also contributes to the feeling of "danger" of running the wrong commands and doing irreversible mistakes, and to some extent that's a valid reason for caution.

A good point brought up by redfish is that typing on a thumb keyboard (which I actually use with my left thumb and right index and middle fingers on my Zaurus for quicker typing) does make the command-line even more of a strain. However, assuming for the sake of the argument that using the CLI would be mandatory on the Pandora, it shouldn't be a decisive obstacle for getting one. It's not that bad, is all I'm saying. Not a proper reason for missing out on all the fun that the Pandora packs.