Pandora Vs Eee Pc Specifications

[chad78]

My PSP cant play emulators out of the box, you need to correct that in the grid with an asterix or remove it because without either knowhow pandora (coincedence?!) battery or additional hardware emulation cant be done on the PSP!

Plus I see you put Gameking in on the others emulation sections! hey don't worry about 2 of the most influential systems in history the Amiga 500 and Atari ST!

I am against removing it. Strongly. The people who will be buying a Pandora know how to mod a PSP - or they could easily find out if they wished to. And, no, you don't need "Additional hardware" to mod a PSP. Even without the battery, you can still modify it using softmod techniques. And the battery isn't something you have to buy, either - it is something you can sodder yourself from a standard battery. So all the hardware you need comes with the PSP when you buy it.

The "Pandora Battery" was named that before the Pandora console was announced. I don't think either influenced the naming of the other.

The market will see a modded PSP as a direct competitor to the Pandora. I know that is why I never bought a GP2X with a modable PSP costing less than a GP2X, and still being able to play PSP games, (which a GP2X never will), I would have been throwing money away. You have to compare like with like - emulators with emulators.

 

[AireTamStorm]

My PSP cant play emulators out of the box, you need to correct that in the grid with an asterix or remove it because without either knowhow pandora (coincedence?!) battery or additional hardware emulation cant be done on the PSP!

Plus I see you put Gameking in on the others emulation sections! hey don't worry about 2 of the most influential systems in history the Amiga 500 and Atari ST!

I am against removing it. Strongly. The people who will be buying a Pandora know how to mod a PSP - or they could easily find out if they wished to. And, no, you don't need "Additional hardware" to mod a PSP. Even without the battery, you can still modify it using softmod techniques. And the battery isn't something you have to buy, either - it is something you can sodder yourself from a standard battery. So all the hardware you need comes with the PSP when you buy it.

The "Pandora Battery" was named that before the Pandora console was announced. I don't think either influenced the naming of the other.

The market will see a modded PSP as a direct competitor to the Pandora. I know that is why I never bought a GP2X with a modable PSP costing less than a GP2X, and still being able to play PSP games, (which a GP2X never will), I would have been throwing money away. You have to compare like with like - emulators with emulators.


I have a PSP and have never modded mine. It would be a good idea to include the information that while it works, it is a mod- one that isn't easily done without a special battery or firmware hack. Add to that, Sony continually patches the firmware to prevent homebrew and mods.
If you want to run your own software on the Pandora, its as simple as code and compile, right out of the box. PSP, you can't really do that.

Amiga 500 and Atari ST Added.

QUOTE

You should expand the criteria for emulators as it makes it seem that SNES emulation on the PSP is perfect, even though compatibility/performance for special games isn't full (such as Super Mario RPG, which doesn't run full speed and definitely isn't just an obscure game in terms of compatibility).


As I have no way of testing or confirming this (I gave away my phat PSP and don't want to mod my slim), I need the exact details. What doesn't work, what does, and if a fix is in the works.

Let me remind everyone: Underline=Playable. Playable as in EVERY game that will run on the emulator is playable. Bold = The MAJORITY of games that run on that particular emulator Run at Full Speed. I don't know of an emulator that runs every SNES rom I have, its usually a split between ZSNES and SNES9x for me. If the PSP's emulator fails to run a good number of titles that are playable on other emulators, thats another thing.

If I simply added criteria like "May not run some titles" I could apply that to every emulator on the chart. Need some more specifics.

 

[Xmas]

I agree with you that we're talking about minor details here. I just wanted to point out that Craig was correct in his assertion that the display resolution of the Pandora is almost twice as much as the PSP's display resolution. Pixel count and display resolution will both give you an idea of the quality of the display, but the two are not the exact same thing (doubling resolution results in quadrupling pixel count, so they are not equivalent).

The problem is that Craig wasn't actually referring to resolution (which would be given in pixels per units of length or per angle) but pixel dimensions (which is often called "resolution", though), where "2x" means doubling the number of pixels (e.g. QVGA/HVGA/VGA).

 

[jaycee900]

I am against removing it. Strongly. The people who will be buying a Pandora know how to mod a PSP - or they could easily find out if they wished to. And, no, you don't need "Additional hardware" to mod a PSP. Even without the battery, you can still modify it using softmod techniques. And the battery isn't something you have to buy, either - it is something you can sodder yourself from a standard battery. So all the hardware you need comes with the PSP when you buy it.

That statement is pretty far off the mark, i used to own a 1.0 PSP and used homebrew and later sold it, now I recently bought another one and a datel battery and have tried everyway people have told me to get it using homebrew again with no luck, i may not be the most experience user in the world but I've used a GP32/GP2X and got OTTD to work on the Gizmondo as well so I have a little knowledge of this but its no easy by a long shot.

Sure you can solder this and that but its hardly 'out of the box' working is it!? The list should just contain machines that are homebrew ready.

So this is another reason why I'm getting a Pandora, the PSP method is past me to get it working and I dont want to waste time trying anymore, so again your statement about people who will be buying a Pandora knowing how to mod a PSP is certainly not true in all cases and the reason why this series of handhelds are popular is centiment to this.

 

[lubidog]

I am against removing it. Strongly. The people who will be buying a Pandora know how to mod a PSP - or they could easily find out if they wished to. And, no, you don't need "Additional hardware" to mod a PSP. Even without the battery, you can still modify it using softmod techniques. And the battery isn't something you have to buy, either - it is something you can sodder yourself from a standard battery. So all the hardware you need comes with the PSP when you buy it.

That statement is pretty far off the mark, i used to own a 1.0 PSP and used homebrew and later sold it, now I recently bought another one and a datel battery and have tried everyway people have told me to get it using homebrew again with no luck, i may not be the most experience user in the world but I've used a GP32/GP2X and got OTTD to work on the Gizmondo as well so I have a little knowledge of this but its no easy by a long shot.

Sure you can solder this and that but its hardly 'out of the box' working is it!? The list should just contain machines that are homebrew ready.

So this is another reason why I'm getting a Pandora, the PSP method is past me to get it working and I dont want to waste time trying anymore, so again your statement about people who will be buying a Pandora knowing how to mod a PSP is certainly not true in all cases and the reason why this series of handhelds are popular is centiment to this.



Agreed. It's gotta be easy for us non geeks, and hard for the real geeks!!!!!

 

[Shiny]

If the PSP's emulator fails to run a good number of titles that are playable on other emulators, thats another thing.

It fails at anything that uses scaling, rotation, "mode 7", or the SuperFX chip. The scaling, rotation, and "mode 7" parts can usually be fixed by turning on a low frameskip (1-2), but most SuperFX games like StarFox just aren't playable at all (even with lots of frameskip). Luckily, most games do not fall within any of these categories and are highly playable, at full speed.

That statement is pretty far off the mark, i used to own a 1.0 PSP and used homebrew and later sold it, now I recently bought another one and a datel battery and have tried everyway people have told me to get it using homebrew again with no luck, i may not be the most experience user in the world but I've used a GP32/GP2X and got OTTD to work on the Gizmondo as well so I have a little knowledge of this but its no easy by a long shot.

Slightly off-topic, but did you try all of the available Magic Memory Stick creators? I had to try a few different ones before I found one that worked. Perhaps you could create a thread in the Other Consoles forum so that we can try to get things up and running; That is, if you're still interested

Sure you can solder this and that but its hardly 'out of the box' working is it!? The list should just contain machines that are homebrew ready.

While I see your point, PSP is still a prime specimen to compare Pandora to emulation and spec-wise.

 

[Pleng]

If the PSP's emulator fails to run a good number of titles that are playable on other emulators, thats another thing.

It fails at anything that uses scaling, rotation, "mode 7", or the SuperFX chip. The scaling, rotation, and "mode 7" parts can usually be fixed by turning on a low frameskip (1-2), but most SuperFX games like StarFox just aren't playable at all (even with lots of frameskip). Luckily, most games do not fall within any of these categories and are highly playable, at full speed.

That statement is pretty far off the mark, i used to own a 1.0 PSP and used homebrew and later sold it, now I recently bought another one and a datel battery and have tried everyway people have told me to get it using homebrew again with no luck, i may not be the most experience user in the world but I've used a GP32/GP2X and got OTTD to work on the Gizmondo as well so I have a little knowledge of this but its no easy by a long shot.

Slightly off-topic, but did you try all of the available Magic Memory Stick creators? I had to try a few different ones before I found one that worked. Perhaps you could create a thread in the Other Consoles forum so that we can try to get things up and running; That is, if you're still interested

Sure you can solder this and that but its hardly 'out of the box' working is it!? The list should just contain machines that are homebrew ready.

While I see your point, PSP is still a prime specimen to compare Pandora to emulation and spec-wise.


Can't we just add a section to the comparison (preferabley the first item) wihc states "Able to run non-offical software without modification"

 

[Tinnus]

It fails at anything that uses scaling, rotation, "mode 7", or the SuperFX chip. The scaling, rotation, and "mode 7" parts can usually be fixed by turning on a low frameskip (1-2), but most SuperFX games like StarFox just aren't playable at all (even with lots of frameskip). Luckily, most games do not fall within any of these categories and are highly playable, at full speed.

What version were you trying? Latest SnesPSPTYL runs Mode7/Scaling/Rotation/Blah pretty well with the right settings. Well, it does run F-Zero fullspeed, although it struggles a bit in the Chrono Trigger racing sequence. (CT is a very heavy game though)

Of course the extra chips are always a pain in the butt.

 

[Shiny]

Can't we just add a section to the comparison (preferabley the first item) wihc states "Able to run non-offical software without modification"

My vote goes for this. +1

What version were you trying? Latest SnesPSPTYL runs Mode7/Scaling/Rotation/Blah pretty well with the right settings. Well, it does run F-Zero fullspeed, although it struggles a bit in the Chrono Trigger racing sequence. (CT is a very heavy game though)

I'm using SNES9X TYL 0.4.2 ME for PSP Slim and I get ~40 FPS in F-Zero :/ I can turn on frameskip and play at 30 FPS, but that's not really full speed.

 

[Exophase]

I don't know of an emulator that runs every SNES rom I have, its usually a split between ZSNES and SNES9x for me.

Off-topic, but try bsnes. It has high requirements, but you don't actually need a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo to play a majority of games.

 

[gaterooze]

My PSP cant play emulators out of the box, you need to correct that in the grid with an asterix or remove it because without either knowhow pandora (coincedence?!) battery or additional hardware emulation cant be done on the PSP!

I am against removing it. Strongly. The people who will be buying a Pandora know how to mod a PSP - or they could easily find out if they wished to. And, no, you don't need "Additional hardware" to mod a PSP. Even without the battery, you can still modify it using softmod techniques. And the battery isn't something you have to buy, either - it is something you can sodder yourself from a standard battery. So all the hardware you need comes with the PSP when you buy it.

The fact remains, you cannot run homebrew software on a PSP out of the box. It is not an open system and you need to mod it to do so.

 

[Prophet]

Regarding PSP - it's only recently where some hardware method was needed to mod a PSP. But I guess it's fair to say it's now par for the course.

My PSP was originally 1.5 so I always had an easy time of things.

 

[chad78]

The fact remains, you cannot run homebrew software on a PSP out of the box. It is not an open system and you need to mod it to do so.

The fact remains that the PSP can, does, and will play emulators. And you need to pull your head out of the sand if you think that people will not cry foul if you compare the two devices and claim that Pandora can play emulators and the PSP can't. If you can't beat the PSP in a head-to-head competition, then either take it like a man or don't play the game. Compare apples to apples, here. If I am geeky enough to get a Pandora, I'm geeky enough to mod a PSP. For crying out loud - there's a whole section on this forum where people talk about different ways to mod the PSP, and different "Dev Kits" for the DS --- which is a nice legal way of saying "This cart lets me play roms and eh hem 'Back-Ups'."

Or - if you really want to compare to systems - be sure to add something like "Can play PSP games" "Can play PSP games natively" "Can play UMD movies" "Can play DS games" "Can play DS games natively" "Can play GBA games" "Can play GBA games natively". I mean, if you're talking about a non-modded PSP - that's still something it can do that the Pandora cannot and never will be able to do.

 

[gaterooze]

The fact remains, you cannot run homebrew software on a PSP out of the box. It is not an open system and you need to mod it to do so.

The fact remains that the PSP can, does, and will play emulators.

Excuse me? If I purchase a new PSP from a store and open the box without performing any modification, can it play emulators? The answer, I'm afraid, is no. A *modded* PSP can play emulators, but a vanilla PSP cannot.

The PSP is precisely as "open" as an Xbox, PS2, DS, GBA or any number of systems which you can run homebrew on affter modifying.

QUOTE
And you need to pull your head out of the sand if you think that people will not cry foul if you compare the two devices and claim that Pandora can play emulators and the PSP can't. If you can't beat the PSP in a head-to-head competition, then either take it like a man or don't play the game.


Seriously, what are you talking about? What competition? What game? Is this supposed to be a fanboy thing? I was just pointing out an incorrect assertion.

QUOTE
If I am geeky enough to get a Pandora, I'm geeky enough to mod a PSP.


This is an over-generalization. I know people who own a GP2X (equally "geeky" as a Pandora) who have no clue how to mod their PSPs and don't even try.

For me, the PSP vs Pandora comparison is about as helpful as the Pandora vs EEEPC one. If you want to play PSP games, get a PSP. If you want an open system, go for a Pandora. Simple.

 

[chad78]

Excuse me? If I purchase a new PSP from a store and open the box without performing any modification, can it play emulators? The answer, I'm afraid, is no. A *modded* PSP can play emulators, but a vanilla PSP cannot.

Will the emulators be pre-installed on the Pandora? Or do you have to find and install them yourself? And, if you can't speak for the Pandora, since it's not out yet - speak for the GP2X. Because if you can search the web for an emulator, make sure you've got the right one for the right system you want to emulate and for the right system you want to run it on - then you can mod a PSP. Not having the desire to do so is not the same as not having the ability to do so. So your geeky friends with their GP2Xs have already spent their money and have a portable emu system - why would they bother modding a PSP?


QUOTE

The PSP is precisely as "open" as an Xbox, PS2, DS, GBA or any number of systems which you can run homebrew on affter modifying.



Who said anything about being "open"? Who said anything about open being a criteria? We're comparing what you can and cannot do with a gadget. Is the iPhone capable of running 3rd party apps? It sure is, whether Apple likes it or not. Let's not kid ourselves and say if the EULA doesn't allow it, then we should pretend like it doesn't happen.

QUOTE
Seriously, what are you talking about? What competition? What game?


The comparison sheet is, I assume, to show people who are interested in the Pandora. If you put on there that "The Pandora can emulate X, Y, Z, and sometimes Q - but the PSP can't emulate squat!" You are lying. If you put that the DS cannot emulate anything - you are lying.

QUOTE
Is this supposed to be a fanboy thing? I was just pointing out an incorrect assertion.


By putting meaningless criteria on it like "Can it be done out of the box?" then you are being the fanboy. Stack the deck against the competition, and you win every time. And, like it or not, the PSP is a direct competitor with the Pandora.

QUOTE
For me, the PSP vs Pandora comparison is about as helpful as the Pandora vs EEEPC one. If you want to play PSP games, get a PSP. If you want an open system, go for a Pandora. Simple.


For you... This document isn't for you, then. This is for people who don't already know they want a Pandora. To the real world, "open system" means jack. As you said, a PSP is as open as an Xbox, a DS, a PS2, a Wii, etc. - and guess what - to thousands of modders around the globe - they are all as open as the Pandora. Just like to most people, Windows is as free as Linux. You just download and install.

Is that technically correct? No. Is it legal? .... How legal are those roms you have on your GP2X? How many EULAs did you break installing them? If you don't care about the EULAs of video game systems from 5 years ago - why do you care about the ones that are on sale now?

I'm really getting sick of all the people saying "Comparing the Pandora to the ___ is stupid! It's not a ___ it's a ____." Well damn. I guess the Pandora is in a class by itself. It is incomparable! It's freakin' GOD!

I want a Pandora, I really do. As soon as it's available to the unwashed masses I will buy one, if I don't go broke between now and then. I think it has a lot of potential - that's why I have spent so much time on these boards, and making GUI mock-ups and videos about the system - submitting official Pandora pages to digg, and telling people about the Pandora. I think it's awesome. But it does not exist in a vacuum. There are competitors. There are other gadgets, gizmos, and do-dads that will compete - directly - for people's money and attention.

Why should I buy a Pandora and not spend half as much on a PSP? What does the Pandora offer that the PSP doesn't? Until somebody answers those questions - people won't know the answer. There are answers. This spreadsheet helps answer them. But to answer them dishonestly does no one any good - not the reader, and ultimately not Pandora. Most people know that the PSP can, and does, play emulators. If you put something out there that suggests it does not, then you loose credibility.

Simple answer to why buy Pandora - (it's not "it is open and the PSP is not," btw!) The answer is, it's a more powerful system that is far more than a gaming device with some media and web thrown onto it - it's a full fledged UMPC that is designed to focus on gaming.

Well, if it's a UMPC - then why should I buy a Pandora and not an Eee PC? (Then the answer *REALLY* isn't "openness" - since the Eee PC is just as open as the Pandora, and functionally more so since more operating systems will run on it easily.) If you say something like "The Eee PC can't play games." You are stupid - or you are a liar. - or both. It *can* play games. It can play games *better* than the Pandora can. It's a more powerful system with a much bigger screen. More systems have been emulated on its operating system and hardware platform. However - what the Pandora does that the Eee PC cannot is - fit in your pocket. And it's not the controls, either. there are all kinds of USB controller that work just fine with the Eee PC, thankyouverymuch. But none of them in any way make the Eee PC smaller than it is. So - for pocketable handheld gaming - the Pandora wins. Also, the Pandora has a touchscreen, which the Eee PC does not.

You, personally, are free to think whatever you want. The sky may be orange in your world. But there are tons of people who will hear about the Pandora and instantly say, "Why should I buy the Pandora when I can buy a ________?" This spreadsheet is designed to help answer that question.

The Pandora is not for everyone. And their will be people who look at this spreadsheet and come away thinking that they should *not* buy a Pandora. And that's fine. Many people would be better served with a cheap, small, lightweight laptop than they would with a gaming UMPC. Many people would be better served with a cheaper, less powerful, less complicated gaming system than they would with a full powered, keyboard weilding beast that is the Pandora. That's fine, let them eat cake. What I want, and what I think the people working on this spreadsheet (I am a contributor, btw) want, is for there to be something we can point people to when they ask "Why do I need a Pandora, when I can get....?" or "When I already have a....?" If we falsely stack the deck, the spreadsheet has no purpose, and is no more helpful than a campaign ad that smears the other guy.

 

[Tom`]

By putting meaningless criteria on it like "Can it be done out of the box?" then you are being the fanboy. Stack the deck against the competition, and you win every time. And, like it or not, the PSP is a direct competitor with the Pandora.

I think this is the heart of the argument...IMO, consoles should only be compared in a particular state. If the Pandora can run homebrew out of the box and the PSP can't, then this is an advantage of the Pandora, no matter how easy it is to mod it.

For you... This document isn't for you, then. This is for people who don't already know they want a Pandora. To the real world, "open system" means jack.

"Open system" may be meaningless, but "you can install and run whatever software you want without having to perform any software and/or hardware modifications, lose your warranty and be at the mercy of Sony" isn't. To me, this is a major thing - I don't own a PSP myself, so I don't have any experience with it, but tell me if this isn't substantially correct: To allow any PSP to run homebrew, regardless of software, you need a soldering iron, razor blade, and 7cm of wire. (I read this here on these boards at one point.) Or, if you have a supported old version of the firmware, you can run any of a number of software downgraders. Either way, you lose any claim to support from Sony, as well as running the risk of physical damage in the former case.
Now it seems to me that regardless of how easy this procedure may be, the fact that it has to be performed means the comparison is stacked against the PSP from the start. It's not dishonest to cite this as one of the reasons to buy a Pandora over a PSP.

 

[gaterooze]

Chad, relax. I haven't even looked at this comparison sheet so I have no idea what you're talking about. But how is it a "smear" to note the fact that a PSP must be modified before it can run emulators? Surely that is an accurate respresentation of the truth, and to suggest otherwise (no matter how easy you consider it to be done) is a distortion?

 

[Knux]

what a joke. you can't say the Eee PC CPU is only slightly faster. And where did you get the DMIPS value for the CPU?

Also why is the Pandora awarded the GPU prize? Sure, it's more advanced, but at maybe half the performance.
Sure, they can be compared, but this is an obvious distortion of a fanboy.

edit: you also got the polygon rate wrong again for the Pandora.

Are you saying that a GPU without even a hardware T&L, let alone normal vertex shaders (GMA900) better than one with UNIFIED SHADERS (PowerVR SGX)!!!?? And how else would you measure performace other than the polygon count and fillrate?? Benchmarks aren't accurate anyway since they're designed for mainstream GPU's and not TBDR's like the SGX. Oh and about the polygon count of the SGX, since it's a TBDR, as opposed to an IMR, it increases as scene complexity increases. So there is no definite polygon count, it can range anywhere from 5 million up to 14 million or even higher depending on overdraw. TI only made a rough estimate on the polygon count in terms of ordinary and usual circumstances. So there you have it, the GPU does vertex/pixel shading and leaves the CPU room for other instructions, while the GMA 900 has to rely on the CPU for even transformation and lighting, it'll probably cripple if it were to do vertex shading operations.

 

[jaycee900]

I think some people need a chill pill and not waffle on for half an hour about god knows what and compare apples and apples and not apples to pears I've had enough of this thread for sure, so enjoy comparing laptops and closed systems to open source one's I'm sure someone will work out the winner for all its worth!

 

[icurafu]

what a joke. you can't say the Eee PC CPU is only slightly faster. And where did you get the DMIPS value for the CPU?

Also why is the Pandora awarded the GPU prize? Sure, it's more advanced, but at maybe half the performance.
Sure, they can be compared, but this is an obvious distortion of a fanboy.

edit: you also got the polygon rate wrong again for the Pandora.

Are you saying that a GPU without even a hardware T&L, let alone pixel/vertex shaders (GMA900) better than one with UNIFIED SHADERS (PowerVR SGX)!!!?? And how else would you measure performace other than the polygon count and fillrate?? Benchmarks aren't accurate anyway since they're designed for mainstream GPU's and not TBDR's like the SGX. Oh and about the polygon count of the SGX, since it's a TBDR, as opposed to an IMR, it increases as scene complexity increases. So there is no definite polygon count, it can range anywhere from 5 million up to 14 million or even higher depending on overdraw. TI only made a rough estimate on the polygon count in terms of ordinary and usual circumstances. So there you have it, the GPU does vertex/pixel shading and leaves the CPU room for other instructions, while the GMA 900 has to rely on the CPU for even transformation and lighting, it'll probably cripple if it were to do vertex/pixel shading operations.


I was objecting to the blanket statement that SGX530 is a better GPU. For the purpose of 3dmark, it is not "better" by the terms of the benchmarking tool which concluded that the SGX 535 was massively beaten by the GMA900 even with the SGX using a higher performing CPU, which is enough to defeat the sgx530 > gma950 assumption. We'll have a better idea when optismised Quake3 benchmarks are compared as they both use OpenGL.

So, incase you missed it again. I'm not saying SGX in Pandora is lame, just that you can't close your eyes and make blanket statements on it's ability to own everything without any evidence to back it up. A good example is the Chome9 HC, which has full support for DirectX9.0c and OpenGL 1.5 but will perform like a dog. No one would say that this is more advanced than the GMA900 just because it has features galore.