Pandora OS Update hangs

[Kumaki]

Mild form of sexism???


Stop this bullshit _wb_. It is a joke! There are jokes about horsepenises on this forum and you are REALLY warning notaz because he made a statement about a monthly bodyfunction of a woman?

I'm going to have to side with _wb_ on this one, not that I think notaz intended anything bad by this..

Maybe it's a cultural thing but here if you respond to a woman that's upset that it "must be that time of the month" it's considered pretty insulting and sexist, even if it's just a joke. And Kumaki is American so I don't know if it sounded too good to her.. Think about it, it's basically dismissing someone's feelings by saying they're pretty much invalid/irrational and saying that women can't control their PMS..

That is precisely how it is viewed here in America, Exo.

It is implying a woman is not able to think or act in a rational manner during that time...and, incidentally, many women my age no longer have that problem, anyway, so it could even be an incorrect assumption.  But that would be none of anyone's business.

'Nuff said here.

Suffice to say this:  It is not anything to do with any specific time of the month...when things start going wrong with computers that I do not understand...I always get crazy and irrational and freak out - because they quite frankly scare me when they don't work right.  It matters not what time of the month it happens to be.  The computer not working right is what makes me irrational...because these devices are complicated, challenging...

Maybe they aren't to you experts...but look at it from the perspective of someone who is 42 years old...who learned computers as a youth...and who is now in the position where the technology has moved beyond anything they ever learned about, or even imagined.  Don't worry, many of you all will get there someday, too.

 

[gotwake424]

You gotta remember, some of us mods are just casual users who just want to help out on a forum. Its not like we know everything / anything about the Pandora anyway as there's always major changes on their way.


Kumaki: Try going to Terminal and typing passwd, type your old password and then type a new one. If the old password doesn't work then you'll need to reflash (Sorry!)

I don't think anyone here expect the mods to know "everything" 

But basic knowledge of "linux" and the pandora in general would be nice 

Neither is required for Modding.

In fact, it's almost better if folk like me ARE doing the Modding...so that the people who can code their way out of a paper bag - which I can't...can concentrate on offering suppoprt and help to idiots like me...and of course, doing coding projects we can all enjoy.

Modding takes time and effort.  Why would you want folk who could do better things with their time doing it?

I became a Mod for one reason only:  It was the one thing I could do to give back to a community that has given me much.  I gave others a much-needed break from Modding duties...and freed those people up to do what they are good at.  Coding, not good here.  The technology has nearly moved past me entirely.

I can do anything if someone TELLS me what to do, and a lot I can bumble thru and figure out.

But none of this knowledge is required fro Modding.  Why would somebody think that this stuff was needed for MODDING?  It isn't as if I am giving support and advice to people with regards to making things work on the Pandy...that is not a Mod's job description.

Well obviously not....

You just made a thread about how to set a wallpaper on the desktop,

and you put it in the "general" section not the "support" section. 

 

[EvilDragon]

Kumaki, great seeing you are doing proper and nice-to-read posts again

 

[ZXDunny]

You should not have any special treatment just because you're a moderator.

 Seems like they get specially abused, I didn't see any special good treatment that's for sure.  It might be nice.

 Yep. Don't apply unless you enjoy the rough stuff

But seriously, the position as moderator means you wield power. Possibly not of great consequence to the world at large, but to the microcosm of the forum, at least. If I do stupid shit as a normal user, I just show myself as being stupid (and will hopefully get handcuffed fairly quickly by the mods). If I do the same as a moderator, I might cause rather a lot of trouble (to our forum-microcosm, that is). I can edit people posts to make it look like they've said things they haven't, block people from accessing the forums, even change their profile details. That is tools for quite a lot of troublemaking that is put in my (or any other moderators) hands. With that as a given, it is a no-brainer that forum members have the right to criticize mods or have and express opinions on the suitability for one or another person to be a moderator.  This is a "position of trust" (förtroendeuppdrag, in swedish ), and as such the members must be able to discuss and express whether they do trust the person in that position.

Apart from that, we are all supposed to play along with the forum rules and general good netiquette. And in those rules there are nothing that says that anyone, mod or not, has to have any particular technical ability. I can't really see how "You don't know how to deal with the magic keyring thingie, so you shouldn't be a mod" makes any sense at all, any more than it would make sense that someone should be banned for not knowing that. It would possibly disqualify one from applying as a member on the OS programming team (had such a team existed as something you applied to), but moderating forums have very little to do with keyrings and encryption.

However, it does say that we should behave respectfully and so on (of course, right now when I'm writing the forum rules post seems to have disappeared down into the bowels of the server), which includes not SCREAMING, not bossing other people about or calling them names, and in general not be d*cks. If someone repeatedly does this, be it a moderator or an ordinary member, it is a reasonable ground for criticism, and eventually warning points and so on. That goes (again) equally for everyone on the boards, regardless of privilege bits.

And this, of course, is a valid complaint towards a mod - Your task is to uphold board order and civility, and how can we trust you to do that with others if you don't do it yourself?  In this case, it is directly applicable on the "position of trust" that we have, and that is why moderators would have to be held to a higher standard  here than "ordinary" members. Whether that is reason enough in itself to un-mod someone might be debatable, but it is a debate that must be able to be openly held (or that one might, if one is not comfortable with confronting someone straight on, be lifted to the collective moderators by using the report button).

Indeed, in such a case I feel (but now I'm talking only for myself, for this is not something we have discussed amongst the moderators) that it should be discussed openly when it comes to moderators, whilst it might be preferred to just use the report for ordinary members - The "position of trust" thing, again. 

Ah, well. My thoughts on the matter. In addition to this, I agree wholeheartedly with most all of what Exophase said, both when it comes to the most useful way to get help and support, about "keeping on-topic", and a bunch of other stuff. Exophase is a wise man.

Wow, I had no idea you were Swedish! Live and learn, eh?
D.

 

[moxie]

Well, it does say "south of sweden" rather prominently straight under my avatar...

 

[Kumaki]

You gotta remember, some of us mods are just casual users who just want to help out on a forum. Its not like we know everything / anything about the Pandora anyway as there's always major changes on their way.


Kumaki: Try going to Terminal and typing passwd, type your old password and then type a new one. If the old password doesn't work then you'll need to reflash (Sorry!)

I don't think anyone here expect the mods to know "everything" 

But basic knowledge of "linux" and the pandora in general would be nice 

Neither is required for Modding.

In fact, it's almost better if folk like me ARE doing the Modding...so that the people who can code their way out of a paper bag - which I can't...can concentrate on offering suppoprt and help to idiots like me...and of course, doing coding projects we can all enjoy.

Modding takes time and effort.  Why would you want folk who could do better things with their time doing it?

I became a Mod for one reason only:  It was the one thing I could do to give back to a community that has given me much.  I gave others a much-needed break from Modding duties...and freed those people up to do what they are good at.  Coding, not good here.  The technology has nearly moved past me entirely.

I can do anything if someone TELLS me what to do, and a lot I can bumble thru and figure out.

But none of this knowledge is required fro Modding.  Why would somebody think that this stuff was needed for MODDING?  It isn't as if I am giving support and advice to people with regards to making things work on the Pandy...that is not a Mod's job description.

Well obviously not....

You just made a thread about how to set a wallpaper on the desktop,

and you put it in the "general" section not the "support" section. 

That is a bad habit of mine...posting things in General...because I often have that window already open.

I do need to be a bit more careful about this.

 

[Kumaki]

I do need to comment, however, on something that someone said above...about how a Mod has the power to Edit other people's posts, and make it appear they said something they did not say.

While I, as a Mod...and no other Mod I know of would do this...perhaps we should even remove the possibility, by taking that Edit button away...only the OP should be able to Edit a post.

After all, we Mods generally agreed the bold green text insterted into another's post was a bad idea - and we DO have the power to hide/delete posts, anyway.  ALSO TO UNDELETE and Unhide them, by the way!!

I am quite sure that all Mods I know would react very harshly against any Mod who altered the content of someone else's post, in order to make it appear the OP had said something they did not say.  But why not even remove the possiblity?  This person raises a valid concern - even though I, nor any other Mod I work with...would EVER actually do it...why not make it impossible to be done?  We Mods have no need to Edit posts in order to do our jobs.

 

[Neelix]

That's not really practical...  There are times when a mod needs to be able to edit another user's post.   For example if they have posted a link to an (illegal) ROM download site, that link needs to be removed for legal reasons,   but in most cases hiding the post entirely would be overkill.

As long as we can always see:

*  That there's a good reason for the edit.

*  Evidence to show that a post has been edited and when. (in the post itself)

*  The nature and reason for the edit clearly noted.

*  The name of the mod who did the edit.

Then this should never be a problem.

- Neelix

 

[mcobit]

I am sorry, if I insulted Kumaki with thinking that jokes about menstruation are not a bad thing.


I joke about that even with my girlfriend and it is not really uncommon in Germany to make jokes about it.


There are Comedians and comedy shows you hear those jokes in all the time.


Maybe it's really some kind of cultural thing...


Edit: Also I tend to write to peolpe on this forum like I would talk to friends.


Maybe I should start talking like I would to business partners.

 

[moxie]

I think the talking with friends is a good model. And when talking with friends, it would probably be OK to run a general joke about menstruation. But I think at least my friends would be giving me an evil eye if I tried to use one as an explanation for their personal current mood

 

[thatgui]

Maybe it's really some kind of cultural thing...

nope, but it's just a different thing wether you are just writing some text or you sitting together with some friends of yours and making that kind of a joke. In the first case other people (especially those who don't know you that well) have no indication on how you meant it. In the second case your friends already have a clear picture on how you meant that and have additional indicators such as facial expression and tone of your voice

 

[Kumaki]

That's not really practical...  There are times when a mod needs to be able to edit another user's post.   For example if they have posted a link to an (illegal) ROM download site, that link needs to be removed for legal reasons,   but in most cases hiding the post entirely would be overkill.

As long as we can always see:

*  That there's a good reason for the edit.

*  Evidence to show that a post has been edited and when. (in the post itself)

*  The nature and reason for the edit clearly noted.

*  The name of the mod who did the edit.

Then this should never be a problem.

- Neelix

Why not quote the post...remove the illegal link, ,note that this was done, then hide the original post.  Same effect...and now you can do a Mod Note.

 

[Kumaki]

I am sorry, if I insulted Kumaki with thinking that jokes about menstruation are not a bad thing.


I joke about that even with my girlfriend and it is not really uncommon in Germany to make jokes about it.


There are Comedians and comedy shows you hear those jokes in all the time.


Maybe it's really some kind of cultural thing...


Edit: Also I tend to write to peolpe on this forum like I would talk to friends.


Maybe I should start talking like I would to business partners.

As the "offended party" in this case, I will tell you that american women tend to get insulted over jokes like that - because the implication is that, because we are having, as is politely called, "the custom of women" (we call it other things, too) - the implication is there that we are unable to think or act rationally, because of that - and by extension, that we are somehow inferior to men.  This is how it is generally viewed by American women.

However, as it seems an apology was offered, without having been asked...and no actual malice was intended, certainly I forgive you...but please do not make such references again.  I cannot speak for your culture, but I can assure you American women are likely to take offense to such comments.

And, no, no need to act like "business partners" on this Forum...believe me when I say that, at times, I have acted on this forum in a way I'd NEVER act around a business partner!  It's part of the culture of this site.  We can all be friends here.  But we SHOULD be mindful that, being a worldwide forum...some people's dominant culture may not match our own, so we should be careful about what we say...and, if informed that something we said was offensive - when no offense was meant...be quick to apologize, and then don't do that particular thing again.

I do believe that, since we ARE an International forum, and we all bring our own cultures, and grasp of the English language with us...we should allow a wide latitude before becoming offended.  Often, offense is not actually meant.

By the way...do you know why women do not make gender jokes?

Because we do not need to blow out someone else's candle in order to make our own glow more brightly.

Now, see, there is an example of something some men might take offense at...however, I used the "razz" emote to show I was only kidding.

As others have pointed out, too...sometimes, "tone" as it applies to writing...does not convey itself well.  You are speaking not with close friends who know your nuances...there is no facial expression/voice inflection to relay your "tone" when you are typing on the 'Net...hence the invention of emotes...in order to convey these things.  sometimes, if you ARE joking...and you have an idea some might take offense to the joke...it's a good idea to use emotes and let them know you are only kidding, that no offense is meant.

then, too...we all should allow a wide latitude with others, because we do come from different cultures and backgrounds.

 

[steveway]

This has been kinda in a way mentioned before by gotwake424 and since you did not seem to have learned this I take this opportunity to repeat it.

You said yourself before that technical knowledge is not needed to be a mod, but that it's more important to know how/when/what to moderate, but you are posing as a bad model for the other users of this forum.

Just now you made a double-post, again, instead of editing your last. And I can see that you opened another topic in the General part of this board instead of the Offtopic with a title that includes words written in Caps.

I never said that you should stop being a mod, Dredd lied and put these words into my mouth, but I advice you to behave more like a role model.

You've gotten the privilege to be a mod on this forum and you should behave more respectfully towards this position.

 

[Kumaki]

Steveway...the double post was INTENDED in this case, because I was addressing two VERY DIFFERENT topics.

There are times when a double post is warranted in my opinion.

 

[steveway]

Then your "Opinion" differs from those of most others on the Internet.

Do whatever you want with this thought, I won't comment on that.

To show how it should be done, I myself will do this correctly:

Sent Today, 02:18 PM

Do you have nothing but criticism for everyone?

Seriously?

I mean, you are beginning to get on my nerves with your nit-picking.

do you think that, in the future, if you are going to continue to criticize everything I do...you could at least do it in PM?

No, I normally don't tend to criticize people if it is not necessary, but because I rarely participate here in another way it may feel like that for you.

Why would I be getting on your nerves, shouldn't you be happy that we are helping you by telling you what you are doing wrong, and what you should change?

And no, I would rather not talk by PM, because for one, as shown here I'm by far not the only one who thinks like this, my little comment gave a lot of people the courage to also speak up on this. And the second thing is that I don't have anything to hide and neither should you, discussing such a thing should for one not be necessary but also it should not be done behind closed curtains.

 

[moxie]

This has been kinda in a way mentioned before by gotwake424 and since you did not seem to have learned this I take this opportunity to repeat it.


You said yourself before that technical knowledge is not needed to be a mod, but that it's more important to know how/when/what to moderate, but you are posing as a bad model for the other users of this forum.


Just now you made a double-post, again, instead of editing your last.

I do agree with Kumaki here, too - There is no value in cramming two different threads into one post. Quite the contrary - If I am to reply to her post, in one of the mentioned topics, it is rather a nuisance to have to edit out the half that is irrelevant to the topic at hand. So: A double post on the same topic - Not optimal. A single post with comments on different topics - Even worse. Separate posts for separate topics - Good. That is how the quoting system and so on. And I do not know which parts of the internet you frequent, but where I am from, that has been the preferred method for over 20 years.

(and yes, that is before the advent of the web)

 

[Neelix]

Why not quote the post...remove the illegal link, ,note that this was done, then hide the original post.  Same effect...and now you can do a Mod Note.

*shudders*   Urgh!  That is what programmers call a kludge -  a dirty hack which works around an issue without actually solving it. In this case a rather ugly work around for a problem which doesn't currently exist.    Clearly the better solution here is not to break a working system.

- Neelix

 

[Exophase]

*shudders*   Urgh!  That is what programmers call a kludge -  a dirty hack which works around an issue without actually solving it. In this case a rather ugly work around for a problem which doesn't currently exist.    Clearly the better solution here is not to break a working system.

Furthermore, I don't see why a function should be removed so that moderators can't abuse it. Moderators are supposed to be able to abuse things, if they have no power what's the point? The idea is to be able to oust them if they do it. Ideally you'd have some log that tracks who modifies posts, but in lieu of that having a big central forum where all the mods communicate can pretty quickly force accountability.

 

[moxie]

Yes. Consider it a thought experiment.