Release Pandora Microbes!

[_wb_]

Some feature requests and suggestions:

• Quick "Retry" function in pause menu
  

Added.

Consolidated start button pause menu and esc key pause menu

Not sure what you mean with this, but now START or P will pause/unpause and SELECT or ESC will toggle the in-game menu.


Pause is a bit redundant if you're in realtime mode, but not completely (you can still see the map in the background, which might help to consider a strategy)

Unpausing with game button A

Made any key unpause in realtime mode, or START/P in non-realtime mode (you might need game button A in that mode while paused)

A very prominent warning on low unit health

Still have to do this one, what kind of warning did you have in mind? A sound? Something flashy around the low HP unit?

'Hold key down' temporary speedup function, where the game is sped up for as long as a certain key is held down. (For instance, holding down the '1' key speeds up 3x for as long as the key is held, holding down the '2' key speeds up 9x for as long as the key is held, etc.)

Added this, keys 1-9 will temporarily set the speed to 1-9. If you stop pressing the key, things go back to the original speed which you can still change with "S". This is why the 1 key can be useful, e.g. if you play at speed 9 but want to slow things down to normal speed sometimes.

The unit mode change sound /may/ be better if it was shorter, maybe only the first half of the current sound.

Yes, it is a bit long. I'll have to tweak all sounds, but not now.

On unit mode change, display the current mode somewhere around the unit's firing range indicator (in addition to the in-menu display).

Askarus also had this idea. We'll use icons to graphically represent the mode, when Askarus or me have time to design them.

When opening the build menu (currently game button B ), do not remember the last used unit type in order to prevent falsely placed units. Instead, add additional absolute key mappings for upgrades. (For instance; use the Q, W, O, and P keys for the 0th, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd menu item respectively; or use D-Pad directions while game button B is held down; or implement upgrade queues and give a dedicated key to each possible unit in the tech tree.)

Yes, this was annoying - I already changed it in my working version to just select the first item instead of the remembered position. You can already use the dpad to select a build option - you never have to click the screen for anything. Shortcuts could be a good idea, I'm just not sure which shortcuts make sense. P is already used for pause.


Question: would it be better to make it take some time to build/upgrade a unit? Currently it happens instantly; it wouldn't be hard to add a timer to it but I dunno if it would make gameplay more interesting or not. Units could be down during the upgrade time or just not be upgraded yet.


There haven't been that many changes yet, but I could release a new PND if you want. I just don't want to pollute the repo too much with constant updates, so unless someone wants to get the latest version NOW, I'd rather wait a bit before I put another update online. The bugs discovered so far are not making the game unplayable.


Also note that this game runs much smoother in the latest SuperZaxxon 1.51 thanks to some kernel tweaks by notaz. Also thanks to notaz, you can now minimize the game by pressing the pandora button!

 

[Christoph.Krn]

Consolidated start button pause menu and esc key pause menu

Not sure what you mean with this, but now START or P will pause/unpause and SELECT or ESC will toggle the in-game menu.


Pause is a bit redundant if you're in realtime mode, but not completely (you can still see the map in the background, which might help to consider a strategy)

Quite a few people have come to expect that if there are in-game menu options, they can be found in the pause menu. This is not the case here.


What I meant was to have the same screen behind the Start button and the Esc key. I had not thought about the non-realtime mode, as I hadn't tried that thus far.


Now I've tried it, and so as to not leave you figuring out everything yourself, here are some ideas that may or may not be useful:

• Scrap the non-realtime mode and just add another speed setting to the S key (or another key) instead, something very slow where the enemy movement is just barely noticeable. If I was the developer, I would prefer this, as it means a reduction of concepts (actually I would question the usefulness of any less-than-realtime modes, but I think that's mostly a matter of personal preference at least in the current version).
  
• Add a note to the realtime pause screen, so that users know there are options behind the Esc key.
  

A very prominent warning on low unit health

Still have to do this one, what kind of warning did you have in mind? A sound? Something flashy around the low HP unit?

A short, non-repeating warning sound mainly. Of course, if something like an additional flashing border around the health bar turns out to work well, then that probably doesn't hurt either.

You can already use the dpad to select a build option

What I meant was something like this:

• D-Pad up while game-B is pushed: 0th upgrade menu item activated.
  
• D-Pad left while game-B is pushed: 1st upgrade menu item activated.
  
• D-Pad right while game-B is pushed: 2nd upgrade menu item activated.
  
• D-Pad down while game-B is pushed: 3rd upgrade menu item activated.
  

...but of course that's just a vague inspiration at best.

P is already used for pause.

Pausing isn't usually used as often as upgrading, and the P key is easily located without looking at the keyboard (the same with the O, W, and Q keys).

Question: would it be better to make it take some time to build/upgrade a unit?

If you ask me, then I'd say that there probably are not many good ways to answer this question. I think that trying it out would be by far the least risky way to find out, that's all I can comment on this for now.

 

[PowerGod]

In Wesnoth pack, level 1, if I upgrade to "white bloodcell" the game crash to the desktop


maybe this can be useful ?

Spoiler

=======================================================================================

PND             : /media/POWERSD/pandora/menu/microbes0.4.pnd

PND_FSTYPE      : Squashfs

APPDATADIR      : /media/POWERSD/pandora/appdata/microbes

APPDD_FSTYPE    : vfat

PND_CPUSPEED    : <unset>

EXENAME         : run

ARGUMENTS       : <unset>

=======================================================================================

[ START ]--- Mount the PND ----------

Mounting : mount -t squashfs -o ro "/dev/loop2" "/mnt/utmp/microbes"

Mounting the Union FS : mount -t aufs -o exec,noplink,dirs="/media/POWERSD/pandora/appdata/microbes=rw+nolwh":"/mnt/pnd/microbes=rr" none "/mnt/utmp/microbes"

[SUCCESS]--- Mount the PND ----------

[ START ]--- Starting the application (run ) ----------

./run: line 13:  3705 Floating point exception./microbes


real 0m59.366s

user 0m19.945s

sys 0m0.742s

[ FAILED]--- Starting the application (run ) ----------

[ START ]--- Restoring the frame buffer status ----------

[SUCCESS]--- Restoring the frame buffer status ----------

[ START ]--- uMount the PND ----------

[ START ]--- Waiting the Union to be available ----------

[SUCCESS]--- Waiting the Union to be available ----------

auplink:plink.c:223: AUFS_CTL_PLINK_MAINT: Inappropriate ioctl for device

rmdir: failed to remove `/mnt/utmp/microbes': Device or resource busy

[ START ]--- Waiting the PND mount dir to be free ----------

[SUCCESS]--- Waiting the PND mount dir to be free ----------

cleanup done

[SUCCESS]--- uMount the PND ----------

=======================================================================================

Return code is : 2

 

[_wb_]

The Wesnoth level pack is not completed at all, like the name of its level 1 says. It is just there to show you that levels can be skinned to different themes. I'm not planning to actually create those other themes myself. If you want to work on a theme, please tell me and I'll tell you how to do it (or you can figure it out yourself by investigating/modifying what is in the PND).

 

[thatgui]

I see. Yes, sounds good. The enemy microbes could then also be bio-engineered killer stuff like berserker bacteria


If someone would like to invent some storyline along these lines, either in plain text or graphically as one or more 800x480 PNG images, feel free to do so and I'll put it in the game.

Maybe some sort of campaign - starting at the infection point (like somwhere "dermal") and having the final "fight" somewhere around the blood-brain barrier (and maybe representing that with proper backgrounds)?


Maybe some medications could also be thrown in to have some surprising element. Or maybe medication capsules could be placed more or less randomly that could be 'activated' with a certain amount of energy that either weakens enemys in a certain range (over a certain time period) or strengthen own units (also only for a certain amount of time).

 

[Askarus]

Scrap the non-realtime mode and just add another speed setting to the S key (or another key) instead, something very slow where the enemy movement is just barely noticeable. If I was the developer, I would prefer this, as it means a reduction of concepts (actually I would question the usefulness of any less-than-realtime modes, but I think that's mostly a matter of personal preference at least in the current version).

No.


I want it. You don't have to use it.

Askarus also had this idea. We'll use icons to graphically represent the mode, when Askarus or me have time to design them.

OK, this will be my next project then.


For heavily damaged units: Make it optical, not with a sound effect. I don't want to have too many disadvantages if I'm playing somewhere where I can't use sound.

Question: would it be better to make it take some time to build/upgrade a unit? Currently it happens instantly; it wouldn't be hard to add a timer to it but I dunno if it would make gameplay more interesting or not. Units could be down during the upgrade time or just not be upgraded yet.

I also thoughed of that.


It'd make the non real time mode more interesting because you can't upgrade to max wit "0" time. It doesn't have to be long. Perhaps you could make it optional.


I'll do some more stuff today and send it to you.

 

[Christoph.Krn]

No.
I want it [a non-realtime mode, remark]. You don't have to use it.

I understand that some people prefer one mode while others prefer the other.


I think there may be something here that I don't see, is it the difference between no-enemy-movement-whatsoever and barely-noticeable-enemy-movement that makes the difference for you?

 

[Askarus]

Question: would it be better to make it take some time to build/upgrade a unit? Currently it happens instantly; it wouldn't be hard to add a timer to it but I dunno if it would make gameplay more interesting or not. Units could be down during the upgrade time or just not be upgraded yet.

I have to quote this again.


It'd be a nice playing style if this could be optional with a pause menue.

I also thoughed of that. It'd make the non real time mode more interesting because you can't upgrade to max wit "0" time. It doesn't have to be long. Perhaps you could make it optional.

I understand that some people prefer one mode while others prefer the other. I think there may be something here that I don't see, is it the difference between no-enemy-movement-whatsoever and barely-noticeable-enemy-movement that makes the difference for you?

Will it make the game less worth to you if you could completely pause it?


It was useful for me the first times I played.


_wb_ made this mode because I asked him to do so.


Combining it with building time would make a whole difference game experience.

is it the difference between no-enemy-movement-whatsoever and barely-noticeable-enemy-movement that makes the difference for you

Yes.


I like turn based strategy games (like Nintendo's Fire Emblem).


I want to have time to think.


Moving enemys is always some sort of preasure to me.


Again my question:


Will it make the game less worth to you if you could completely pause it?


Isn't it better to have the option?


Thanks, Christoph.Krn


During my offence against you (joke) an other idea came to my mind:


@_wb_


Could you please add this option:


Limitted pause.


It'll act like the Pause mode but only lasts for some seconds.


Than it'll need some time to recover before it can be used again.


If this would be implemented in the game I would use this mode. Ulimitted Pause is boring.


Let's go further:


Let's suppose the pause mode will last 5 seconds.


After those 5 Seconds it'll still last but constantly reduces energy.


When you end pause mode it needs 3 seconds to cool down.


Then it'll start to recover. (If you were 2 seconds in pause mode you'll need 2 seconds to recover).


Is this possible.It would be some kind of real time stuff and a further great feature of your game.


Christoph.Krn, would you accept this solution?


(Of course cool down and recovery could be longer. It was simply an example)

 

[_wb_]

I prefer to have several options to keep everyone happy. Of course it is easier to beat the game in non-realtime mode than in realtime mode, so if you want to brag about beating a level you'll have to say not just the difficulty setting but also these things. You could also not use the visible path option to make it more challenging. The non-realtime mode is still challenging enough in Hard or Insane difficulty - it's just that the game becomes more like a turned-based game than a RTS, but that's fine.


The semi-realtime option with a limited pause mode, I could add something like that. E.g. each new wave could also give you some extra pause time budget. It's easy enough to implement. What should it do when you pause when your pause budget is used up? The regular pause screen in which you cannot build?


@thatgui: that's a nice idea for a campaign design. In the current infrastructure, each level can have its own background image already, so there's no coding required to do that, just someone to design the images and maps


The medication bonus thing is a nice idea. Static ones (i.e. they are there from the start) can already be done with the current code: technically it would be a tower (outside of the regular tech tree) that does nothing until you upgrade it (spend energy to activate it). A few minor code changes would be needed to make it have a timer instead of regular HP and to make the enemies NOT fight it , but that can be done. Then again, maybe it would work too if it had HP like a regular tower (even when not yet activated, so you have to protect it if you want to use it later), but without the option to heal it. Dynamic ones that are randomly sprinkled on the map every now and then would require some extra code - but I don't want to add too much random luck stuff, so I think I prefer the static medication.

 

[Askarus]

What should it do when you pause when your pause budget is used up? The regular pause screen in which you cannot build?

As i said above. You'll stay in Pause mode but it'll cost energy until you quit.

 

[_wb_]

What if you have no energy left then?


Also it seems strange that in the real-time mode you can pause without it costing energy (although you cannot build while paused), while in the semi-real-time mode you cannot do that. Maybe two different pause buttons are needed. But we already have the in-game menu as well (when you press ESC in game), so that would be 3 kinds of pauses. Too strange. So maybe just don't allow building anymore as soon as the pause budget is used.


I've just added your tower mode icons (1-7) by the way. Thanks for making those! For a low-health unit I already did something else (flashing circles around it), so I'm not using that icon. I'm also not going to use the icons for "taking damage" and "healing" and so on, it will make the screen too crowded. The hp bars should help to see where dmg and healing is happening, as well as the game animations themselves. But the mode icons are very useful, I'm now showing it in the game area for a short while, and I'm using the inner part of the icon (inside the bubble) to display the mode in the infopanel.

 

[Christoph.Krn]

Will it make the game less worth to you if you could completely pause it?
Isn't it better to have the option?

No, it won't. And I'm not to decide, don't ask whether I would 'accept' a certain solution, even if it wasn't meant very seriously it doesn't make sense to decide based on my personal preferences. I'm just making suggestions and giving comments here, and naturally there will usually be some that do not align with what the original creator is having in mind.


A non-realtime mode does make for a different game experience. It's just that realtime strategy and non-realtime strategy are usually very different game types, and implementing such differing concepts early on in a game often is an indicator that there may be a risk that game mechanics may go out of the balance that makes them enjoyable, at least if my unrepresentative(!) experience with making video games is worth anything. Hence my note that I'd personally question the usefulness of any dedicated less-than-realtime modes at the current time, it's not that I simply wouldn't want it to be there out of personal preference.


So, having super-slow-motion would be a reduction of concepts, but to you it would be more unnerving than true pause in a non-realtime mode. May I ask if you know why that is so, and whether there might be anything else that could be done about it instead?


Also, you wrote that "It [the non-realtime mode, remark] was useful for me the first times I played." Please help me understand this a bit better: is it still useful for you now, and what did it help you with in the beginning? (Realtime and non-realtime ramblings aside, there might be something else that can be improved here. Maybe a different way of displaying the tech-tree and unit properties in-game will improve things.)


("How Gearbox's 'Truth Team' outwitted Borderlands feedback" may help understand why I'm asking such very stupid questions.)

 

[PowerGod]

@Christoph.krm: Have you ever played X-Com: Apocalypse ? If so, what do you think of that game ? There was the choice to play turn-based or realtime before every mission.


I always liked to have the possibility to give commands on pause, but every RTS I played like this had a construction time... so after resuming the game the buildings where not just ready in front of an enemy

 

[bzar]

^ The real time mode in xcomapoc had pausing as well. The choice was more over granularity and turns vs. simultaneous play than "real-timiness". I picked the TB option at first, but then I learned to love the RT mode (got to love shooting brainsuckers while they're jumping).


Anyway, as a fan of the Fire Emblem series myself, I do appreciate the time to mull over strategy options in peace. This game, however has less statistic-based action and movement logistics than those games, which makes the decisions quite a bit more straightforward. Basically you pick a strategy before starting a level, and then implement it to the best of your ability. I think having time to think the level through before any enemies appear and setting the initial towers in peace could be enough. After that it can be full on bacteriapalooza.

 

[_wb_]

I just added construction time


The unit starts blocking (and taking damage) immediately, but it only starts shooting/healing/slowing when it is ready. The construction time correspond to the cost of building it, so better units take longer to make. There's one bug/feature that I could easily remove but might be interesting: you can upgrade before the construction is finished, so if you have enough energy available, you can save some time by doing a few upgrades on top of each other.


I like the non-RT mode to make it easier to learn the game and to do careful planning in Insane difficulty settings. Once you found a good strategy, you can always switch to RT mode to get the "real" experience. If I ever add scoreboards (don't expect this anytime soon, it is boring to program) there would of course be different scores for different combinations of difficulty setting and RT mode.


Super-slow would actually require more implementation effort since the faster speeds are just done by repeating the main game logic step a number of times before rendering a frame, but this method wouldn't work for super-slow motion. I need to make sure that the speed setting has no effect on what actually happens in the game, which means it is hard to "divide" one game logic step in two to get half speed, let alone super-slow-motion. I could of course not run the game logic step at some of the frames to slow things down, but that wouldn't look smooth since that means the effective FPS drops from 30 to 15 if you want half-speed, and only 3 FPS if you want something like 1/10th speed. So I'm just going to stick to how it is now: complete freeze.


I consider the non-RT mode as a "training mode", so I intend to make it so that the levels are intended to be played in RT mode and might be too easy in non-RT mode. However there might be level packs in the future that are intended for playing in non-RT mode so you shouldn't try them in RT mode unless you're extremely skilled and fast.


If you have suggestions on how to improve the build menu to make it easier to comprehend, that would be much appreciated. Keep in mind that the amount of screen real estate is limited though, since I want to use as much of the screen for the actual game area. Obviously the help screen needs improvement, at the moment it is really just a condensed "cheat sheet" to get an overview of the shape of the tech tree (without showing any unit info) and the enemy microbes.

 

[_wb_]

Anyway, as a fan of the Fire Emblem series myself, I do appreciate the time to mull over strategy options in peace. This game, however has less statistic-based action and movement logistics than those games, which makes the decisions quite a bit more straightforward. Basically you pick a strategy before starting a level, and then implement it to the best of your ability. I think having time to think the level through before any enemies appear and setting the initial towers in peace could be enough. After that it can be full on bacteriapalooza.

Yes, but then you suddenly get a huge wave of viruses that fly through the membranes and your towers, ignoring the path of doom you carefully prepared, and you might want to take some time to revise your strategy and add some emergency towers


Or if a berserker suddenly breaks through some obstacle, opening up a major shortcut to your base, then you might want to take some time to decide how to deal with it.


In a typical game, I would first build some initial defenses, then speed up the game a lot until the initial stuff becomes too weak to kill microbes or gets too much damage. Then I think about how to add healers, slowers and boosters to make the defenses more effective. Then speed up again until something starts looking not so good, build again, speedup again, etc. Basically I take a turn, the microbes take a turn, I take a turn again, etc. In the RT mode I do essentially the same but I stop the speedup sooner to have time in normal speed mode to do the upgrades. In normal difficulty setting, the difference is not that big. In insane difficulty, the microbes are quite fast even at normal speed (and they are of course also tougher), so there having the non-RT mode makes a huge difference.

 

[Askarus]

Also, you wrote that "It [the non-realtime mode, remark] was useful for me the first times I played." Please help me understand this a bit better: is it still useful for you now, and what did it help you with in the beginning? (Realtime and non-realtime ramblings aside, there might be something else that can be improved here. Maybe a different way of displaying the tech-tree and unit properties in-game will improve things.)

Wit "beginning" I mean the first time I played the game.


(OK, the verry first time I played the game and it was hard to play without time to read through all units descriptions. Then I asked fior the pause menue)


It helped me to read carefully every units instructions and think about how to use them.


It also helps if microbes break through my defence. I can build up new ones at once. If there wouldn't be a pause option it'd cuase me much more lost lifes or even death.

I think having time to think the level through before any enemies appear and setting the initial towers in peace could be enough

That before is the most important part. The first wave should start when I want it to start.

 

[_wb_]

New version 0.5 on the repo!


What's new?


- Nubs!


Left nub does the same thing as dpad, but faster (practical if you quickly want to move to the other side of the screen)


Right nub can be used to tune the area the unit focuses on: you can move it a bit, depending on the range of the unit. This adds another element of strategy to the game, e.g. you can build one super boosted big-range tower and use the nub to point its focus towards where it is needed most.


- Microbe preview: you can now see the next waves


- Build/upgrade takes a bit of time now, during which the unit is down


- Some minor changes, bugfixes, balancing and tweaks (see the thread above for some of them, e.g. 1..9 to temporarily set speed)


- New levels by Askarus


- Faster rendering thanks to notaz plus frame dropping if needed, 30 FPS will be maintained even when things get hectic now


Make sure you use Super Zaxxon 1.51, it will drop more frames in older kernels.

 

[Christoph.Krn]

Interestingly I was going to suggest some of the things that now are in the new version (Selecting via left nub and Microbe preview), so for now I'm going to omit most of my comments on some of the previous discussion.


I've downloaded the latest version, played the first levels ...and reverted to 0.4. It may be that I'm just not used to the changes yet, but so far it doesn't quite feel right. It would be nice if some others commented on this before I make any more comments, so for now I will just say that the quite long-ish building times /may/ have changed gameplay too much, and that my subjective conjecture on the focus tuning (right nub) is that it takes a lot of fun out of the game. Always bear in mind that this is early and possibly extremely subjective feedback, so take with a plow of salt.


Other problems (that I've encountered so far):

• Controlling the focus with the left nub isn't precise enough on my Pandora. I don't know whether this is intentional or possibly due to my hardware.
  
• Reaching the 9 key requires more hand acrobatics for me than pressing the s key several times.
  

@Christoph.krm: Have you ever played X-Com: Apocalypse ?

No, so can not comment.

 

[_wb_]

The left nub is meant to be fast but not very precise: good to go quickly in a general direction, but then you probably want to use the dpad to get to the exact position. I could make it slower/more precise, but then it would basically be the same as the dpad.


How does the right nub take fun out of the game? Is it too powerful? Too tedious? It would help if you could comment a bit more, so I know how to make it better.


I can of course make the building times shorter or remove them completely - they're not that long, are they?


I don't see how reaching 9 requires hand acrobatics, if you can reach the right nub, you should be able to reach the 9 key as well.