Pandora is WAY overpriced????

[EvilDragon]

When I buy anything, I always compare it to usage or fun it brings for me.


E.g. an arcade or pinball game gives you a few minutes of fun for 1 EUR.


A good Latte Macchiato gives you good taste for 3 EUR - but only for about 10 Minutes.


RPGs often cost about 60 EUR. Some have a playthrough time of 20 hours, some of 80 hours. I wouldn't buy a game for 60 EUR with less than 20 hours playing time.


So, I for something like the Pandora, I would pay something like 1-2 EUR per hour of fun. I played through multiple PSX RPGs I owned for a long time but didn't have the time to play with it.


I played countless other games, sometimes (when I'm on holiday), I use it 5-8 hours a day.


Yes, for me, it's certainly worth it.


On the other side, I only use smartphones occassionally.


To check out the boards (takes a few minutes).


To have a synchronized calendar.


I rarely do phone calls.


So a smartphone is not worth much for me. Therefore, I always have an older model. I won't buy a phone which is more expensive than 200 EUR.


I've got an older phone with a 1GHz CPU, which is easily enough for my use case.


So normally, I don't judge the price by the specs of an object, but by the time I'll use it and have fun with it.

 

[PowerGod]

E.g. an arcade or pinball game gives you a few minutes of fun for 1 EUR.


A good Latte Macchiato gives you good taste for 3 EUR - but only for about 10 Minutes.

ehm... the Latte Macchiato (do you call it in italian ?!) didn't give to you only taste, but also nutriment... something that games don't have... just made me smile the time comparison 

 

[thatgui]

ehm... the Latte Macchiato (do you call it in italian ?!) didn't give to you only taste, but also nutriment... something that games don't have... just made me smile the time comparison   

games can also give you nutrition - mentally at least (or you play against a real live opponent for a meal)

 

[Znirk]

E.g. an arcade or pinball game gives you a few minutes of fun for 1 EUR.


A good Latte Macchiato gives you good taste for 3 EUR - but only for about 10 Minutes.

ehm... the Latte Macchiato (do you call it in italian ?!) didn't give to you only taste, but also nutriment... something that games don't have... just made me smile the time comparison 

Technically true, but not usually the point of drinking coffee. If you're getting any significant portion of your nutrients from coffee-based drinks, I think you need to reexamine your diet.

 

[PowerGod]

@thatgui: in the worst scenario if you give a Latte Macchiato (with sugar) to someone who is starving, maybe it can live for another day, but if you give him a game it will just die with a smile

@Znirk: I don't drink coffee, but the Latte Macchiato contains more Milk than coffee, so, more proteins anyway most of the people I know that drinks coffee do it only cause it makes them to stay awake  :mellow:

Anyway let's not make this a food VS games discussion please

 

[PokeParadox]

I find games particularly nutritious *DVD pieces fall out of mouth*

 

[BaDToaD]

Why is it people cannot get that the Pandora is a Pocket PC. It's not just a console. If you want a reality check just have a look at the price of all the previous pocket PCs there have been and you will see the Pandora is actually reasonably priced, especially for what it can do.

My Pandora slogan is "Forget the spec and look at the functionality" What other device can offer you Libre Office in your pocket.

 

[ShleeDragon]

This conversation again? MOD please delete this tripe!

 

[klapse]

Marx' theory of economics is fine.

Unbelievable that decades after the complete and utter self-destruction of communism, we still have acolytes of Marx.

You pull out a "value" for the pandora of 150 euro, from the same place communist planners did - out of your ass.


There is no way to know the value of a product at the outset of producing something for the first time. There is no theoretical value except in your imagination. Production processes arent scientifically parameterizable. They are enterpreneurial, risky, foraging into the unknown. Didn't the pandora saga teach you at least that much?

 

[_wb_]

That "value" of 150 EUR was just a hypothetical example number, please don't take it too seriously. The point is that it is some number smaller than the current production cost ED is paying per unit. This is inevitable because ED just doesn't have the economy of scale, nor the unscrupulousness to exploit Chinese workers to assemble Pandoras at very low wages, both of which are (sadly) considered to be normal in the electronics industry.

Marx' theory of economics is fine.

Unbelievable that decades after the complete and utter self-destruction of communism, we still have acolytes of Marx.

You pull out a "value" for the pandora of 150 euro, from the same place communist planners did - out of our ass.

There is no way to know the value of a product at the outset of producking something for the first time. There is no theoretical value except in your imagination. Production processes arent scientifically parameterizable. They are enterpreneurial, risky, foraging into the unknown. Didn't the pandora saga teach you at least that much?

I think you're confusing marxism and stalinism. Those two things are not very related at all - except by the fact that Stalin claimed to be a marxist. By that reasoning, all christians are worshippers of George W. Bush (because Bush is or claims to be a christian), and all vegetarians are nazis (because Hitler was a vegetarian).

I happen to agree to most of Marx' writings, but I strongly disagree with stalinism. I'm also a vegetarian and against nazis. There is no contradiction.

We're getting off topic though, so if you want to further discuss this, I suggest we start a new thread in the "off-topic" forum.

 

[3_bit]

Remember that some products are intentionally sold at a loss because they know you'll buy games and accessories for the device, which are no doubt "licensed" (like official nintendo games) which could mean that the company selling the console makes money off the games, not the console.

Other things that makes the Pandora superior to all other mobile devices: USB PORT! OPEN SAWS! And it does a lot of cool stuff. I think that systems like the Pandora might become more mainstream (provided the the P2's CPU can emulate modern systems(or at least a PSP at reasonable speeds))  as who wants to carry around a Playstation Vita, a Wii U.... you get the point. If the P2 unifies all these, it could not be stopped. Not only that, but buying all the consoles alone would cost a lot, but the pandora does it all in 1 small package with AMAZING battery life.

 

[klapse]

The discussion of price and value is pretty relevant to the Pandora. Whether the pandora is a good value at any agreed-upon price is a subjective judgement made by each individual purchaser.


I can recccomend this introduction to The Subjective Theory of Value


http://mises.org/austecon/chap4.asp

 

[PowerGod]

How many FREE app/games are available for the Nintendo/Sony consoles right now ? I mean in their "vanilla" state in the respective app stores

(It's a serious question, I don't know how it works now)

 

[moxie]

I find these types of arguments really very silly.  It comes down to people saying, "It is too expensive because it costs more than I want to (or can) pay."

The latest Mercedes G wagons cost far more than I can pay - but I can still understand why they are priced as they are.

Just because you, or I, personally can not afford to purchase something at the price point that the manufacturer chooses or has to charge for an item does not make it, "a massive rip off."

Those of us who signed up for a pre-order in 2008 knew we were taking a huge risk with the $350-$400 we sent in, via wire transfers, based on faith and speculation that this thing called a Pandora -might- some day exist.  We were essentially discounted based on the fact that we were taking a risk to pre-order something that we thought at the time was months away - then held on for 2+ years, with many of them still outstanding, for fulfillment.

Would I have paid today's price 3.5 years ago for this product delivered the following week instead of going into a highly risky delivery unknown expenditure?  Sure.  Would I have paid today's price for the uncertain and risky prospect of non-refundable wire transfers to a company that barely existed?  No.

Today's price reflects immediate availability of a mature product that you can buy with a credit card and an address.

2008's price reflected a high risk pre-kickstarter project requiring a non-refundable money order, a dream, and lots of faith.

They had no way at the time to know what kinds of cost overruns they would encounter - or they would have charged more back then.

Quoted for great justice. Bloody excellent.

 

[moxie]

The discussion of price and value is pretty relevant to the Pandora. Whether the pandora is a good value at any agreed-upon price is a subjective judgement made by each individual purchaser.


I can recccomend this introduction to The Subjective Theory of Value

http://mises.org/austecon/chap4.asp

Yes, well...If you are going to argue about value, then you need to use somewhat similar concepts of what you mean by value. It is, of course, unfortunate that the same word is used for two different concepts, but still - there it is. There is no conflict in the statements "The production-value of x is 150 euros" and "The subjective-to-me-value of x is 250 euros". That is two different things.

 

[klapse]

Yes, well...If you are going to argue about value, then you need to use somewhat similar concepts of what you mean by value. It is, of course, unfortunate that the same word is used for two different concepts, but still - there it is. There is no conflict in the statements "The production-value of x is 150 euros" and "The subjective-to-me-value of x is 250 euros". That is two different things.

There is no "production value" but there is a production cost.

 

[moxie]

Yes, well...If you are going to argue about value, then you need to use somewhat similar concepts of what you mean by value. It is, of course, unfortunate that the same word is used for two different concepts, but still - there it is. There is no conflict in the statements "The production-value of x is 150 euros" and "The subjective-to-me-value of x is 250 euros". That is two different things.

There is no "production value" but there is a production cost.

...says you. And other theories says otherwise. Assuming that your own view is The One Truth is not particularly conductive to a good discussion. I might not agree politically with _wb_, but there is nothing wrong philosophically with his arguing - Particularly by way of referring the theory on which he bases his argument.

 

[Trezker]

I measure the price of things against how many hours I have to work to earn the money to pay for it.

But I don't simply take my hourly wage, I first subtract taxes, bills and other running costs in my life.

So if I see something and imagine how much happiness it would bring me, I also imagine how many hours I have to slave away at my job to pay for that happiness. Of course, it would be plain stupid to buy something that doesn't give at least twice the happiness work would take away.

I bought a Pandora and I'd say about 3 months of full time usage would be enough for it to bring me the required happiness.

I don't keep track of the hours, but I have certainly sunk quite a lot into FreeHeroes2 and lately Brogue. There's also SEGA master system and C64 games. And I have barely gotten into any programming on it yet.

 

[PowerGod]

100 lives will not be suffient to do everything you can do with the Pandora...

 

[Kumaki]

Remember that some products are intentionally sold at a loss because they know you'll buy games and accessories for the device, which are no doubt "licensed" (like official nintendo games) which could mean that the company selling the console makes money off the games, not the console.

Other things that makes the Pandora superior to all other mobile devices: USB PORT! OPEN SAWS! And it does a lot of cool stuff. I think that systems like the Pandora might become more mainstream (provided the the P2's CPU can emulate modern systems(or at least a PSP at reasonable speeds))  as who wants to carry around a Playstation Vita, a Wii U.... you get the point. If the P2 unifies all these, it could not be stopped. Not only that, but buying all the consoles alone would cost a lot, but the pandora does it all in 1 small package with AMAZING battery life.

Exactly. It's like the movie theatre. They make almost or no money at all on the movies. That just covers their costs of showing it to you, license fees to the studiom etc. It is the CONCESSIONS they make money on.

and I'm not talking out of my ass here, my brother is Regional District Manager for the entire East Coast for Carmike Cinemas. So I know what I'm talking about here.