Pandora Cube

[Loon]

Big yes for me if :

1) It has HD video output pref HDMI
2) It has a built in USB hub, so USB 1.1 devices work as intended, with a minimum of 4 USB ports
3) It costs £125 or less

See this post for earlier discussion of a similar idea

 

[bencoder]

Yes - I looked at the pandora mainly as a platform for a wearable computer system. Of course a wearable computer doesn't need the screen or the controls, so those things would be wasted, I just wanted a decent open source box that I can plug a screen and usb devices into that's easy to get going and develop for - the pandora cube suits this, as long as it stays in a similar small pandora style form factor - it's no longer suitable for this purpose if it changes to a cube shape.

 

[Lozrus]

I'm pretty much a guaranteed customer if these become available. For me the main use would be as a retro console and low power home automation and audio server. With an IR blaster and small server app this would allow me to use my Pandora and iPod Touch as remotes.

It would be more attractive with

• A built in 2-4 port USB hub (powered), to hide the USB2.0 only oddities and to connect IR blaster/controllers/ethernet.
• Component/VGA/HDMI but I don't see this as a huge issue simply because I don't see the Pandora as the best option for HD video anyway (and I already have a Popcorn Hour doing that perfectly)
• Ethernet, again not a biggie, especially if there is a USB hub. WiFi would probably cover my needs anyway.

I'd buy it without any of those options but a built in USB HUB really would make the thing more useful (otherwise I'd have to hook up another box and find space for another power supply to connect a hub anyway - even more mess under the TV).

Yes, I could just as easily do this with a small Atom box, probably a little cheaper, but:

1. The Pandora board has all the capability I need.
2. The Pandora board consumes less power.
3. The Pandora will be getting lots of nice ports of things I'd like to run on a mini retro console.
4. I'd like to put serious effort into developing for the Pandora, having two devices running the same hardware and OS is just nicer.
5. I'd much rather give my money to OpenPandora than to Intel/Asus/Acer/...

I work in the Point Of Sale industry and can see a lot of commercial applications for something like this, power consumption is a major consideration for the big retailers, food chains and kiosk builders right now. Again an internal USB HUB, and probably VGA/DVI would be what's needed for most commercial/industry applications.

 

[wardred]

If this is selling, I dont see why pandora cube wouldn't
http://www.gumstix.com/store/catalog/produ...products_id=227
http://www.gumstix.com/store/catalog/produ...products_id=215

That's the market we want to hit, but our unit would be cased, have the pandora controls and still have the battery in it.

And be cheaper.

Craig,
It sounds like it would be better if this weren't a "console" so much as a devboard competing against the beagle/gumstix - and marketed that way. If you could get the price to $175-$200, maybe $220 for that, it would probably be good competition as the beagle requires so many things to get it to work right.

Eliminate battery, this wouldn't be a portable, eliminate the controls - it could accept external USB gamepads. Definitely keep power plug. Keep wifi.

Video out, I think, is still the stickler. HDMI and / or DVI I think will be key here, and 720p should be doable for movies, and maybe gaming, right? As a dev board we'd want to hookup to existing monitors, and those connection would be usable on a HDTV. I know 1080p is probably right out unless you're doing just the desktop in it. (No 3D gaming or movies in 1080p). DVI if HDMI is too much $$$ license wise. Others will want VGA, especially for a devboard. I mean, not everybody has moved off of that format for their computer. Software switchable would be ideal, but a physical switch would work too. I think those two are a minimum. I don't know how easy they would be to hack onto the video out or the video for the non-existent LCD. (Maybe a poll specifically for video out on these forums. I thought that s-video and / or component video might be important, but nobody seems to have asked for it from what I can see. Probably not important at all if this is a dev board and not a console.) The beagle board went through a big debate on video connectors too. I'm VERY glad that my revB has an HDMI connector.
Other than that, 4 usb ports - 2 as a bare minimum, audio in and out, probably only need one SDHC port, a simple case, make sure wifi continues to work, and offer ethernet if possible - should be doable as a USB device. I know this is almost what I posted before, but this is looking at it as a competitor to the Beagle Board, rather than looking at it as a gaming/media station. With this configuration it could still be used for that, but that wouldn't be its focus.
With this hardware, I think it would eliminate a lot of the "downside" and "attach another thing" syndrome that you have with the beagle board. I mean, it needs a USB hub, USB ethernet adapter if you're going to move it away from the computer - somewhat obviated if wireless works, but there are places it's still good to have ethernet, power adapter, case, USB cord, serial cord - offer debugging via terminal via USB if possible,video cord, - if you could get enough interest to make "mass purchasing" cords cheap enough, consider including at least the video cable, or having an optional add on package with it - and I think that covers most of it. You could eliminate all of this, except for the video and usb cables, and maybe even those if you can get them for cheap enough.

Oh, yeah, if you do do this, try your best to make getting / using the 3D user space and development drivers as easy as possible. The whole "e-mail TI" for the drivers thing was a little disappointing to me with the beagleboard. (You may not have a choice if they haven't really released them. I'm just now getting back into it...waiting for my SDHC card and reader.) I'd have it boot into a fully usable Linux interface from the get go, including all the development libs. Let us put different images if we want to, but being able to sit down, write "Hello Triangle" on the device or copy it over ethernet from the computer, compile it, and run it with little worry about setting up the environment would be great compared to the work to get the beagleboard running. (Think less hard core hardware hacker and more trying to get software to work with OMAP3 here.)

kk, done posting in this thread, promise. :b

Edit: Okay I lied, but only to edit this post. Mainly to clean up a few phrases...aw look what I've done. Commentary on the Beagleboard now too. Bleh.

 

[transmition]

Sorry, didn't read all of the comments.

Yes, but this is what I would need:
-HDMI out
-Ethernet
-Ability to play HD video (IE downloaded movies, so mkv and x264)
-Ability to hook up to something like a 1TB hard drive

This is what I would want:
-some type of adapter to allow older controllers like the Gamecubes
-Enough power to run Nintendo64 games.

 

[Tuxedomask29]

Personally DVI and HDMI are ok if you have the connections, but I'd prefer to keep it more to the common user and offer component video output. If you can support the multiple connection types with interchangeable cords, all the better but I know personally for me, I don't have anything but component in on both of my TVs and I'm sure there are quite a bit of others in my same boat.

 

[Lerc]

Quite frankly I think this is the wrong place to ask the question. Many of the positive responses will be from people doing so out of enthusiasm for the handheld device. Many of the negative responses will be from people who are only interested in handheld devices. In short, It's an extremely unrepresentative sample of the market.

My own opinion would be that such a device could be a massive success or a flop depending more on marketing and placement than the actual capabilities of the unit.

I think one of the hardest areas to sell to would be the standard game playing market, that immediately puts you up against the Big consoles. As a media center it could do well but many people are trying to come up with the ideal media center, Capability, User friendliness and price would make the difference there.

Under-represented areas are the young children market, and the Computer->TV Market.

If you search the net you will find many many parents who learned about computers as a child from their spectrum/C64/Atari etc. Many of these people are lamenting that there is no such system that they can buy and just plug in to the TV and it 'just works'. Reach those parents and you have a market.

A device for younger children has even more potential, but is a tougher nut to crack. Leapfrog sells the right kind of stuff for obscene prices. A possibility would be to sell a pandora box that has a Sugar mode http://www.sugarlabs.org/ I don't particlularly like Sugar myself, but it's a thing.

There are a few Linux Distros forming aimed at kids which might be a plus there. It wouldn't hurt to sponsor some open source Development in that area either.

Pushing the open aspect is a must. Open means that people can have a media center, KidsPC, Game Box, TinyPC, all in one. Versatility is a selling feature. Especially if you present a young child using the unit at a tv then a slightly older child using the same unit connected to a VGA monitor. People can buy expecting to migrate the unit to a pc as their child grows, but if they end up using the system as a game/media center they won't want to disconnect from the tv and they'll buy a second unit.

If it has bluetooth and usb, contollers are a piece of cake and people should have the option of buying a bare bones system or one with some off the shelf mouse/keyboard/controllers/whatever.

Summing up... huge potential, just not in the same mindspace as handhelds

 

[may88]

Component and VGA outputs would be done through a daughter board plugged into the LCD connector and mounted somewhere close in this new case. I didn't think this was a good idea without digital video either so it was always a consideration in my mind. That would be the only difference between Pandora and this cube assuming the nubs, game buttons and keypad was left on.
This interests me actually. I was envisioning a plain box, something that would slot in next to your dvd player or something. But a "lidless" Pandora would be like a little Spectrum. :wub:

I reckon there'd be applications for both configurations. You could offer the option of a unit with controls, or just the board in a box.

You know the hinge problem! Well! The Pandora cube is the bottom bit. Until that's fixed that's what we'll all be getting.
Yes, if it can do x. It's Linux of course it runs X.

The board has to remain essentially the same. They've got the thing designed and banging a few 1,000 extra ones off the production line is going to be easy. And we all know how easy it is to rustle up a case.

Questions are:
What is the identity of the "cube". It's lost the portable gaming niche. What else can it be? Where is the market?
What else is possible? What's on the board that could be made available? It would need to remain faithful to the Pandora so software remains compatible. USB hub = possible. Not sure if High Def is possible (bolt on upscaler?)
What can be dropped to save cash? battery has already been suggested. It might be a nice to have but is it an essential (make it optional). I like the idea of keeping BT and the keyboard and wifi has to be kept.
Something new? Out of depth so go easy on me. What if the TV-out was wireless, with a wee adapter in the telly (not sure if BT has the bandwidth). The unit could float in the living room (battery voted back in), like a fancy remote. Half watched media/played game could be transported from living room to bedroom. (USB attached disk could be a pain. er...use NAS).
Make it round - add it to a magic8 ball (some licensing costs here) and if you can decide what to do with yourself flip it over and it say "Play a Game" or "Watch a move" or "<insert own imagination here>"
For me the Pandora will or should be able to do all the same stuff. So unless a killer application for can be found to spark the imagination, I can see that I'd be able to justify the expense. It's a reluctant No from me, but I hope there's market for you.

 

[puppydee]

I voted NO, is the cube just a quick way to sell the pandora boards to get extra cash to finance the Pandora further? That's what sprang to mind when i read the thread. I'm sure it isn't the case but with the credit crunch and all I'm pretty paraniod these days

 

[mcfab]

I voted "if it can do x"

I have already purchased a pandora console, nevertheless I would be interested in a panda board + DVI/VGA output + ethernet 10/100 Mbps.
No case, no battery and no Wifi module to reduce the overall cost.

My interest is to build a simple multimedia-desktop box for home, which have to be nearly full open source and software compatible with the pandora console.


My 2 cents

 

[Lorkile]

I really don't think I could consider it until after my pandora arrives, as how much use I get out of it determines my further interest in the project. Add to that I would most likely prefer a home PC over a secondary pandora hooked up at home as I would be unlikely to want to transition between them.

 

[(naw)mcx]

I voted NO, is the cube just a quick way to sell the pandora boards to get extra cash to finance the Pandora further? That's what sprang to mind when i read the thread. I'm sure it isn't the case but with the credit crunch and all I'm pretty paraniod these days

It would just use the Pandora board as is, there isn't any extra work required, we are just trying to open our potential market a bit more so we might become profitable a little faster.

Close enough, I guess. Nothing wrong with that. Wow, strange that, a company trying to sell things!?

 

[Nilsiboy]

Really, I don't see the point in a Pandora "console", because, as was said before, you already can connect the Panda to a TV.
In addition to that, the same space constraints just don't apply for a set-top-box type environment as for a handheld, i.e. it wouldn't be hard to put together something that is faster and cheaper, but bigger than the Panda using standard PC parts (or newer integrated parts like NVIDIA's Ion and Tegra GPUs and Intel's CULV CPUs).

I could *maybe* imagine the cube working if you advertised it as a "green" console/set-top-box/etc, because the current hardware needs relatively little electricity... maybe even an open-source "Media Center Extender" (using MythTV or XBMC).
But again, with newer and more powerful hardware readily available it would be tough. I mean, you could pretty much just buy a used Wii for around the same price, hack it and have commercial games, emus, more power than the Pandora, an already finely tuned user experience and DVD playback, and some TVs even have integrated media streaming and widgets nowadays... I just don't see it working, sorry

 

[burito]

double post, /me grumbles at Chrome

 

[burito]

Stationary devices have the following requirements to be in my house.

* Gigabit Ethernet
* >= 2xSATA ports
* HDMI/DVI (I don't care which), capable of at least 1980x1200@60Hz
* Digital Audio output (co-ax, not optical) capable of at least 7.1 24bit @ 196Khz &| Analog connectors capable of the same
* >= 2 CPU's capable of operating at over 3Ghz
* >= 2Gb DDR2

Having said that, if you can make an ARM (BeagleBoard esque) that is..
a ) Shipped from outside of America (US$75 shipping for US$149 BB is a deal breaker, F-U digikey)
b ) >= 512Mb RAM, preferably 1Gb or more
c ) Some sort of case so I can throw it into my bag, and I mean *throw*

If you could have TV-Out AND DVI/HDMI that would be awesome, TV-Out just isn't that attractive.

I'll supply my own powersupply, they are cheap and readily available everywhere (save shipping it from England).


I purchased the pandy because it's an arm system with more nuts than a DS. I've got 2 games I've written, both of which are just a little too much for the DS to handle, so I'm looking forward to being able to build stuff on a non-wintel arch that actually has power.

So yeah basically my dream would be a BB with tv-out as well as hdmi, that's been dipped in plastic so it can survive my backpack (and being amongst all the crap that entails, heavy books, usb paraphenalia, water (it's raining very heavily where I am ATM). More than 512Mb would be nice but not a deal breaker. I would even put up with 256Mb if you can keep it to the same price as digi-key, and have reasonable shipping. US$75 is a big pile of get f-cked digikey.

edit: my b ) got turned into an emoticon

 

[pcklee123]

If this can sell for $220 I don't see why Pandora cube cant if you leave the keyboard ,battery and gaming controls in.
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboard...48&cl=US,EN

 

[shmuck]

I voted no, but bear in mind that most of the people here have already ordered / are planning to order a Pandora. So this would just be redundant.

Someone probably already said this, I just didn't want to read through twelve pages of comments.

 

[WizardStan]

Problem: HTPC already has a heavily saturated market. It's possible to build (or buy) a quiet (possibly even fanless) mini PC that has more features than what a set top Pandora could currently offer, for about the same price point or lower.
Solution: find a slightly different form to fit into a crack in the market that isn't currently being fulfilled.
If you really want to go through with this, I offer up my suggestion. Take the bottom of the Pandora, controller and keyboard and SD slots and all, throw away the LCD. Tweak so that the EXT also has the digital video lines and power. A reasonable length cable, split at the far end, connects to the TV and to power. Power is optional, as the console would still have the battery. Include a USB hub which fits snuggly to the back for times when it just sits there as a regular HTPC, suitable for keyboard, mouse, and 1TB external hard drive full of movies. (Hard drive not included)
This accomplishes one very important thing: it bridges the gap between ultra portable and stay at home; giving you a video device that is small enough to take anywhere, yet designed to attach quickly and easily into any existing video system.
When playing a game, the console IS the controller. A single player can simply pick it up and play, right there on the big screen. For times when multiple people want to play, there is no problem in setting it down and plugging in the hub for multiple controllers. Because of its size, it's effortless to take with you. Combined with a pico projector, I envision such a device having potential in the business industry as a presentation device, beyond the capability of the existing Pandora.
This fills a spot for which no other system exists. Only by continuing to take advantage of the keyboard, game controls, and battery do I foresee success. Take those away, design it to be a box which sits on top of the tele to which you need to plug extra devices into, and you're exactly where we started: with a generic HTPC that costs more to get less. The Pandora wasn't designed by Apple, don't charge us more to give us less!

 

[MisterBrisby]

Personally, I wouldn't be interested in such a Pandora Cube. All I want and need will be in the Pandora handheld.

 

[Eternalodyssey]

..

I'm sure someone's posted a link to a site that sells them before??

I think they would make a very stylish mini computer

http://www.pactecenclosures.com/

This site has an excellent selection of small plastic enclosures. They even give out free samples as well. I have used several enclosures like these on my bikes. One was a by-pass for the timing retarding on my Hayabusa. I tricked it into thinking I was always in second. Another houses the ignition cut-off and the brain for my air shifter. Really durable little enclosures.

I have already expressed interest in this project but I think that the main advantages to highlight here are the fact that it will be low-power system with BT and wifi with standard SDHC slots. At that price point you would be hard pressed to find similar enclosed and complete systems that could offer so many options and features for that price. I am assuming the major cost advantage could be stemming from the bulk omap soc purchases. Even the votes present show strong interest. We already have a decent sized community present. I can see strong potential just in that. So I might have to wait another year or more for the cube version, so what? Again, sign me up for another pre-order!