Pandora Cube

[VRAndy]

As long as we're talking about new products, Can I make a suggestion?

It's a little outside of OpenPandora's niche, but perhaps that you're now experts in small volume, high quality, extremely hack-able consumer electronics, it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility.

I would like a hackable ePaper device. I'm imagining a device with a keyboard similar to Pandora's but with a screen like the Kindle's. It could (and in fact should) have a slower, lower power CPU. Anything too powerful would be a waste with ePaper's slow refresh rate.

A device like I'm envisioning could be used to surf the web, read ebooks, monitor RSS feeds, play old style text-adventure games, and who knows what else. Perhaps even a bash shell would work on such a screen.

A device with an ePaper screen designed from the ground up to be hackable and programmable, would be (in my mind) the perfect companion to a hackable and programmable game palm-top.

 

[goonaman]

I think it could be a good idea if you took off the controls, had the daughter board for vga/component and had a simpler casing. You would use bluetooth mouse/keyboard/gamepad for control and use a more glossy customised media based version of linux that could be ported like ubuntu mobile - you would also be able to run Open Office, internet/email and other apps.

I think this would get a lot of publicity outside of a possibly more limited enthusiast community because you'd be showing a full linux media computer that's noiseless and you can carry in the palm of your hand. It could potentially interest a lot of people because just look at how succesfull the netbook has been as a cut-down laptop. PCs are starting to shrink down with the NVIDIA ION chipset and there's the mac mini but something even smaller and cheaper would be great for a lot of people.

If you want to expand your market for pandora then it could be a good way to go

 

[transmition]

This accomplishes one very important thing: it bridges the gap between ultra portable and stay at home; giving you a video device that is small enough to take anywhere, yet designed to attach quickly and easily into any existing video system.
When playing a game, the console IS the controller. A single player can simply pick it up and play, right there on the big screen. For times when multiple people want to play, there is no problem in setting it down and plugging in the hub for multiple controllers. Because of its size, it's effortless to take with you. Combined with a pico projector, I envision such a device having potential in the business industry as a presentation device, beyond the capability of the existing Pandora.
This fills a spot for which no other system exists. Only by continuing to take advantage of the keyboard, game controls, and battery do I foresee success. Take those away, design it to be a box which sits on top of the tele to which you need to plug extra devices into, and you're exactly where we started: with a generic HTPC that costs more to get less. The Pandora wasn't designed by Apple, don't charge us more to give us less!

This is the best comment so far. The most practical and economical.

 

[Polossatik]

didn't wade trough 17 pages of wishlists /comments

Might be interesting as NAS/media center idea but it then needs

* DVI out with 1080p resolution at least.
* Be able to handle 720p H264 files (at least) without maxing out the system (= having enough "headroom" for a torrent client/samba etc in the background)
* IR remote port (or some kind of cheap IR module as "default" addon)
* Ethernet
* I don't care, but most would want more then stereo sound
* To be usefull as NAS it would also need a (few) Sata connections (HW RAID is not really needed but would be cool) , USB disks are irritating slow when writing/reading with more then one process. Without "NAS" function it's just not worth it for me

I don't see the point of putting the current PCB "in a box".

If the idea is to get more of the current PCB's out of the door then a better route IMHO would be to make some kind of "kit" that you can have the current PCB (maybe default without the nubs on it, if this makes a difference in $$ - doubt it) and (separated) the LCD and a easy (to make longer) connector/cable to connect the LCD to the PCB, that would IMHO make a easy inroad for anyone who want's to put a "PC in a car" or use it in some other kind of "build in" setup. This will allow anyone who wants it to make it's "own box".

extra offerings that might be of interest:
* that breakout/extra pcb that was mentioned to have VGA/DVI instead of the LCD
* A way to connect the battery without having the "orignal" case.
* Keyboard can be connected trough USB, so no big deal, aldo offering a good "mini space saver" USB keyboard might be an idea, especially one you could take apart and fix into something.
* A decent Powersupply that can deliver some "extra" 5v juice for USB stuff would be handy also.
* A decent 12v adaptor that can deliver some "extra" 5v juice for USB stuff.
* USB hub that can use the power supply(s) mentioned above.

 

[modred11]

Well, if this console were more powerful then the Pandora in terms of CPU power and stuff, I might get it. It really depends on the power though. I would not get it if it's the same as the pandora power-wise, as I'd rather use the Pandora....

Although I did think of an idea to increase the device's power. Well... Except I don't really imagine it'd increase power all that much, but anyways.

I thought that if the device had the controls on it, then for a multiplayer game each player would use a 'Cube, the devices could network together and use they're combined CPU cycles to play the game. Something like a render farm. Or it could be like where the TV is done split screen, and each device only has to render it's piece of the screen.

I realize that might be hard on the software-side to get that to work, but if an API could be set up for using such functionality for any game, it could be pretty cool.

Of course it depends on people who have Pandora Cube's knowing other people who have Pandora Cube's, which, given that no-one (except Evildragon) currently has a Pandora, I guess that's not extremely likely.

That said, I would really love for there to be a Open Source console out there, but I really think it would have to be powerful, the steam hardware survey gives an idea of Desktop computer power levels (at least those that use steam), I imagine people would expect a Video Game console to compete with they're desktop at least.

I forget if links work now, so here's that link again:

CODE
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/


I guess the split screen thing I described doesn't really follow with the idea of combining power, it's just lessening the work of each one, not splitting the work between them. I guess I don't really know how (or if) using the computer's together to do the work would work, I just thought it might make sense to have them work together in some way.

 

[ebrio_loco]

It it has X:

X= [
-IR/RF/Bluetooth reciever compatible with LinuxMCE link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinuxMCE
-Fully compatible with linuxMCE (link above)
-Output Sound: 7.1
-RAM: 2 GiB (in my eee pc 1 GiB is not enough)
-1 to 4 Hard Disks bays in order to put all my media in
-Video input in order to record all my tv shows
-VERY VERY low power consumption for the home server (and torrents)
-6 to 8 USB ports in order to put samba with all my printers, scanners, etc. and share it on my home network.
-Working drivers for my devices (you know, generic normal linux drivers, I'm not asking a miracle)
-Several ports for cards in order to load in your media quickly (2 or 3 maybe)
-VGA (interoperability) and DiplayPort (for HD, I don't know if it is popular, but is OPEN)
-Ethernet port
-Very long life... you know 24/7 are very heavy for any device
-RSA cable output for old tv's and easy sound output (more backwards compatibility)
-A video card capable of recording and encoding, FullHD playback, and other stuff typical in a media center
-As an option a bag is you want to carry it on.
-a dvd and blu-ray compatible bay?????
-Other stuff that i don't know right now.
]

 

[gp32rich]

Going bigger and less portable is one way. But why not just get a docking station?

Looking at the other way .. I'd prefer a pandora in watch format, like the mp4 players.
2in widescreen-touch, nipple controller, reasonable battery life, watch/clock screensaver


... Heart monitor, phone software, gps, PIM

 

[Sugar_Kane]

I can't see the benefits of it really. If you kept the controls on it then it would be unwiledy as you would have to constantly have wires trailing across to the tv. If you kept it as a small box minus controls then it would essentially be a disabled pandora, and i think that would make alot of people confused about it's use, especially if it came without any peripherals. Ultimately this would only be of interest to the hard-core open source community, and not as far reaching as the pandora, I believe that would make it's market extremely small.

 

[Dauric]

Voted yes, but only if...

Just slapping a Pandora in a stationary console just doesn't cut it. Pandora is awesome -in comparison to portable machines-, but in comparison to the capabilities of current-gen, or even previous-gen consoles it's just not enough for a stationary console.

Minimum capabilities would have to be able to support HD resolutions, emulate PS2 or later generations of software, and a DVD player, and hookups to whatever the buyer has as a display from standard 3 channel to HDMI to computer displays, all on top of the existing Pandora capabilities. At that level you're in the running against the PS2-Slim models that they are still producing and selling in the $100 range. Even at this level you wouldn't be making $200 a unit. A big chunk of the Pandora's cost is the work that goes in to compressing the required hardware in to a tiny space, which is not as 'big' a concern when you're dealing with stationary consoles. Even with the least amount of space available to me I could still find room for that PS2 slim.

Now if it was a full-blown console, able to compete with current gen- or proposed-next-gen stationary consoles, that would be a different DRM-Free monster. With Pandora docking station(s) and the ability to use the Pandora as a Bluetooth controller with a dedicated screen (Action on the TV, status updates or tight-aim on the Pandora, RTS overview on the TV, Pandora showing each player their own troops...) Possibly with optional Wii-style controllers, or just the ability to hijack Wii-controllers..... If I heard from you guys that you were seriously looking in to it, I'd start putting money aside to get one, and when it was released I'd probably have enough.
---

A solid 50% of why I want the Pandora is the portability. I want the Pandora because it combines the functionality of my PDA with a portable game system, and the PSX emulation means I've got a shelf full of games to play already while still reducing the weight of crap I carry on a day-to-day basis. On top of that the Pandora already has a TV-out, which is a good thing, but it further invalidates the utility of a 'Pan-Cube'.

The people who know about Pandora and what it does are already saving/have shelled out the $$$ for a Pandora. To us the 'Cube' is just a 'handicapped Pandora' and not worth the additional $200 while we're waiting for the Pandora itself. To those who would be introduced to OpenPandora Ltd. through the 'Cube', it's a vastly sub-par console and may give OpenPandora Ltd. a bad reputation with regards to devices, possibly deterring sales of the Pandora itself.

Unfortunately for the planned purpose of a Cube though (to bring in more money sooner) it's just not something I'm interested in, nor can I really see how it would be advantageous to own one.

Of course this is all my own $0.02.

 

[Phawx]

Popcorn-hour does all of this crap already with 802.11n for $250. It supports HDMI 1.3a (Not DVI-D) and can stream FULL 1080p blu-ray rips.

The only reason I would buy a pandora cube is if it fully supported XBMC and could stream full 1080p blu-ray rips. Otherwise there really isn't a point in the TV aspect of this device.

The only other situation I see is branching out with the design. Why not make a netbook? Or cram it into an LCD for a Nettop. Or just sell it as a small computer with holes to match VESA requirements, so we could screw it to the back of *any* LCD monitor.

Selling it as a console doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

 

[Mark1970]

Would you be interested in a Pandora cube, which would essentially be a Pandora for the home which would be a Pandora board in a small box with a TV out cable.

You would have to attach your own controls/hub via USB.

You would have access to the same software, emulators, media players etc. only via the TV screen.

It would be around $200-$220.

Opinions?

If the Pandora software would also run on it I would be interested in it if it was able to output HD video as well.

 

[RichiH]

mini PC that has more features than what a set top Pandora could currently offer, for about the same price point or lower.
Solution: find a slightly different form to fit into a crack in the market that isn't currently being fulfilled.
If you really want to go through with this, I offer up my suggestion. Take the bottom of the Pandora, controller and keyboard and SD slots and all, throw away the LCD. Tweak so that the EXT also has the digital video lines and power. A reasonable length cable, split at the far end, connects to the TV and to power. Power is optional, as the console would still have the battery. Include a USB hub which fits snuggly to the back for times when it just sits there as a regular HTPC, suitable for keyboard, mouse, and 1TB external hard drive full of movies. (Hard drive not included"]
This accomplishes one very important thing: it bridges the gap between ultra portable and stay at home; giving you a video device that is small enough to take anywhere, yet designed to attach quickly and easily into any existing video system.
When playing a game, the console IS the controller. A single player can simply pick it up and play, right there on the big screen. For times when multiple people want to play, there is no problem in setting it down and plugging in the hub for multiple controllers. Because of its size, it's effortless to take with you. Combined with a pico projector, I envision such a device having potential in the business industry as a presentation device, beyond the capability of the existing Pandora.
This fills a spot for which no other system exists. Only by continuing to take advantage of the keyboard, game controls, and battery do I foresee success. Take those away, design it to be a box which sits on top of the tele to which you need to plug extra devices into, and you're exactly where we started: with a generic HTPC that costs more to get less. The Pandora wasn't designed by Apple, don't charge us more to give us less!

This is the best comment so far. The most practical and economical.[/quote]Agreed. My comments about requirements is still valid, but the above is very true.

 

[tristan.clark]

While I kind of like Hobbyman's idea of Pandora in an Amiga / BBC B / Speccy form factor. Maybe that could be cheap enough to fill the gap left by those machines, especially in this credit crunch time. A cheap console (less packaging, no monitor and peripherals required) that can do everyday usefull things like wordprocessing, surfing and other basic stuff. Can't help thinking as nostalgic as that is, with the points raised on this thread and knowing what the 'public' in general can be like, it won't be enough. More features mean more cost, more design time required. It leads back to the Pandora as it is. Maybe / HOPEFULLY the OP team have done too good a job.

 

[ljones]

that can do everyday usefull things like wordprocessing, surfing and other basic stuff. Can't help thinking as nostalgic as that is, with the points raised on this thread and knowing what the 'public' in general can be like, it won't be enough. More features mean more cost, more design time required. It leads back to the Pandora as it is. Maybe / HOPEFULLY the OP team have done too good a job.

Did you mean recreating the amiga/bbc/zx case exactly and putting a pandora in it? It would be nice but I'm guessing that there would be a boatload of © problems which would make it expensive. I'm thinking maybe create our own keyboard-console case? The amiga case IHMO is probably a bit on the big side for most peoples' desks! The zx one might be a bit *too* small. How's about a compromise - the C64 ?

How on earth can anyone build a tiny PC (not a normal desktop-sized one) for $200? Last time I looked the price for a pico ATX board was *well* over $200 !

Maybe the pandora cube should go into an Amstrad PCW style case :lol: !

At least there would be no need for a 3.5" floppy drive !

ljones

 

[Exophase]

OMAP4 is a couple years out still.

Not so:

"Availability TI's OMAP 4 platform and development tools are expected to sample in the second half of 2009, with production expected by the second half of 2010. These products are intended for high-volume wireless OEMs and ODMs and are not available through distributors."

http://focus.ti.com/pr/docs/preldetail.tsp...;prelId=sc09021

Closer to one year away, with samples coming soon. The high volume part is probably the kicker.

 

[jack.walker]

How can they ask for interrest in a cube when the Pandora prommise did not materialse yet and it gets more questionable if it ever will befor the interrest dies.

 

[Pickle]

How can they ask for interrest in a cube when the Pandora prommise did not materialse yet and it gets more questionable if it ever will befor the interrest dies.

Its simple they want to sell as many pandora main boards as possible.

 

[wermy]

How can they ask for interrest in a cube when the Pandora prommise did not materialse yet and it gets more questionable if it ever will befor the interrest dies.

I'm not sure what your motives are, or if you're genuinely skeptical about the project and worried for those who have already payed for it (all your posts seem to be trying to scare people off or something). If you really had been watching the project for as long as you say in your other post, you'd know there have been leaps and bounds of progress over the last couple months. So relax, it's only 2 months off. Seriously though, these guys are legit and you'd know that if you'd spend some time on these forums (I know it says I've only been a member a few weeks, but I've been lurking here since the project was announced).

 

[Miknal]

have a slower, lower power CPU. Anything too powerful would be a waste with ePaper's slow refresh rate.

A device like I'm envisioning could be used to surf the web, read ebooks, monitor RSS feeds, play old style text-adventure games, and who knows what else. Perhaps even a bash shell would work on such a screen.

Other than a re-arranged keyboard and being able to make your own text adventure games, isn't that just a kindle 2?

As for this cube idea, I like it. I have no idea whether the amount sold to cover the cost of the redesign would be in the hundreds or thousands, but I guess if the insides are done the hard bit is over.

To be honest, the main problem could be a lot of people like me. If the cube was announced at the same time as the pandora I probably would have gone for the cube. Much cheaper, and I don't intend to detach the pandora from the tv out very much anyway. But no way I am getting both so, er, yeah. Pandora for me!

 

[tristan.clark]

that can do everyday usefull things like wordprocessing, surfing and other basic stuff. Can't help thinking as nostalgic as that is, with the points raised on this thread and knowing what the 'public' in general can be like, it won't be enough. More features mean more cost, more design time required. It leads back to the Pandora as it is. Maybe / HOPEFULLY the OP team have done too good a job.

Did you mean recreating the amiga/bbc/zx case exactly and putting a pandora in it? It would be nice but I'm guessing that there would be a boatload of © problems which would make it expensive. I'm thinking maybe create our own keyboard-console case? The amiga case IHMO is probably a bit on the big side for most peoples' desks! The zx one might be a bit *too* small. How's about a compromise - the C64 ?

How on earth can anyone build a tiny PC (not a normal desktop-sized one) for $200? Last time I looked the price for a pico ATX board was *well* over $200 !

Maybe the pandora cube should go into an Amstrad PCW style case :lol: !

At least there would be no need for a 3.5" floppy drive :"] !

ljones[/quote]I'm sure that a similar style case could be done, as you say. C64 would be nice . Plenty of room to shoe horn in a few of the additions that have been suggested and good for easy modding.

I kind of miss 5 1/4" floppies :lol: [might as well admit to being that old]