Pandora 2 wish list - Ultimate Pandora

[Dead1nside]

I love mine just the way it is, but a board upgrade at some point in the future is a great idea. Oh, go on then; I'll take a backlit keyboard too

A board only upgrade would be a very nice way of recycling a Pandora, but what would you be willing to pay for a new (faster) board? Remember the board is pretty much almost all the cost of the Pandora (the screen is the only other significant part price wise).

Maybe £100, and another £20 for a very simple case to convert the old board into something usable (WiFi to USB/Audio). Not sure I'd buy one today, or if I'd want to keep the old case/screen in 2-3 years time, but it seems like a good thing to investigate.

See there's the problem, the board currently costs way more than £100, a faster board would be pushing to £200 just for the board.

Best focus on Pandora 2 then in my opinion. Better shoulder buttons, new SoC, more RAM and ROM etc. If it was more around £100, then I'd say it's worth the upgrade, but pushing £200 you might as well release a new Pandora.

 

[Sugar_Kane]

Well it would in effect be a Pandora 2, as there isn't really any need to screw with the cosmetic design aside from maybe a slot for an HDMI port, in my humble opinion, OPT could use the current case design and just upgrade the internals. Then we could have the choice of buying a new unit or a replacement board.

 

[SNESFAN]

See there's the problem, the board currently costs way more than £100, a faster board would be pushing to £200 just for the board.

so depending on specs, would £200 be out of the question for a board only upgrade? Assuming reuseable socket nubs are available at that point.

 

[skyeyemachine]

*lurk mode disengaged*


Speaking personally, I haven't received my unit yet (somewhere past the 3000+ mark, I believe), so I'm speaking mostly out of conjecture here, and currently have nothing to say about external details like the form factor, the keyboard, etc. But there are a few features I feel pretty certain I would love to see on future Pandora designs;


- Improved screen tech, like the Pixel Qi screens, offering even better battery life and improving outdoor visibility. I'm ambivalent about things like multitouch and such, the stylus will probably do me for about 90% of my computing needs.


- An integrated camera, perhaps mounted in the lid near one of the speakers. I'm still divided as to whether I'd want one facing outward, say for casual photography and visual data capture, or facing inward, towards the viewer for things like video chat and video logging. I think I'd prefer an outward-facing one overall, though. Maybe it'd be possible to have both, I wouldn't know.


- VGA out in preference to TV out. This is probably my biggest gripe. I know the Pandora is intended as a gaming device, and from that context, TV out makes (or at least did make, when the board was originally developed) sense in many respects, considering the traditional game console heritage of using household TV for output. But many modern televisions incorporate VGA input now, and I know I will personally be wishing I could use my external PC monitors with the Pandora. I don't have a TV. I may even go so far as to get a TV-to-VGA converter, but they're expensive and makeshift. That said, VGA may wind up being replaced by DVI or something as standard in the near future, for all I know. In summary, I'd much rather be able to connect my Pandora to external computer monitors than to television monitors.


- "Remove the NAND and use a third SDHC card for booting/etc..." I participated in some earlier discussion on the merits of the NAND flash chip, and from what I remember, it's integrated into the chipset the Pandora uses, meaning it's a bit of an all-or-nothing proposition that you may as well run with. That said, if it's technically feasible, having an internal SDHC slot or something instead of irreplaceable NAND would make the Pandora that much more flexible in terms of its max memory capacity. The two external cards could be used be purely for memory storage, and swappable at any time, whereas the third internal card (which you wouldn't want to change much anyway) could be for the OS alone.


- Considering all the talk about using better chips and so forth, I would love to see the Pandora's processor(s) speed/type (as in dual-core, etc) and RAM capacity beefed up a bit, with the only limitation being that I'd hate to see any large cuts to its battery life.


- USB 3 seems like a logical addition, by the time the Pandora 2 would come to market.


Anything else I could want (GPS, accelerometers, etc) can be handled via USB. I can even handle my camera needs that way, really, but having a compact integrated one just seems handy, so I'll keep it on my list. Aside from that, considering there have been many reports of minor problems with the Pandora's casing, I would hope that the next case moulds (if indeed the current case can't be re-used) would be free of such problems. I also wonder whether I'll really like the 'rounded' keys in the long run, but am waiting to test that out.


I'll just take this opportunity to also congratulate the OP team on their recent progress; I'm really, really looking forward to getting my Pandora at last, hopefully sometime in February from the sound of things. Keep it up, you guys are great!

 

[TrashyMG]

Sure Pixel Qi screens would be an improvement.. but a 7" screen like previously stated would be ridiculous for a handheld device.


VGA out would be cool, but I think a DVI out via a typical HDMI connector may actually easier to implement. If they implemented true HDMI it would cost the OPT money for the rights to use it. However the current video capabilities of the graphic processor it most likely can't drive both at the same time.


Camera, sure nice toy.. but I can't see much use of it. my opinion..


The NAND is integrated into the OMAP processor.. IE not removable.


Agreed more Ram and Storage or processor is always good...


USB 3 has considerable power demands over USB 2. Until we get the super battery.. I don't really see it as very viable yet.

 

[Jourdy288]

2 cameras a la 3DS!


I honestly think it's too early to start adding stuff since by the time it's time for Pandora 2, tech will have advanced...

 

[skyeyemachine]

Sure Pixel Qi screens would be an improvement.. but a 7" screen like previously stated would be ridiculous for a handheld device.


VGA out would be cool, but I think a DVI out via a typical HDMI connector may actually easier to implement. If they implemented true HDMI it would cost the OPT money for the rights to use it. However the current video capabilities of the graphic processor it most likely can't drive both at the same time.


Camera, sure nice toy.. but I can't see much use of it. my opinion..


The NAND is integrated into the OMAP processor.. IE not removable.


Agreed more Ram and Storage or processor is always good...


USB 3 has considerable power demands over USB 2. Until we get the super battery.. I don't really see it as very viable yet.

Thanks for your reply.


I wasn't suggesting increased screen size; I agree that the current size is great for a mobile device, I wouldn't want it any bigger. But the tech itself would be a great upgrade if an appropriate screen size could be manufactured, and it probably will.


I could live with DVI, I guess. I basically don't want to hunt down a TV just so I can use a big screen when I have perfectly good LCD panels I use with other computer equipment all the time. It's the one big problem I have with the Pandora as it is now. It's also worth noting that VGA connectors probably won't be dying out for a while, even with the current HD craze, as they've been so ubiquitous for so long.


Yeah, cameras aren't really critical. I note below that USB does account for that, as it does so many other things. I could get by without this feature built-in. But the Pandora has an internal mic for example, and that feature could have been added with an external mic port instead; why not a camera, if it can fit? As well, cameras of the sort seen on smartphones and such aren't terribly expensive now, if I'm not mistaken, so it would be a relatively small addition to the board price. I understand my preference here isn't necessarily reflected by the majority, though.


Yeah, if the NAND can't be swapped out I understand. Still, one can dream...


I wasn't aware USB3 required substantially greater power, so if that's the case, I'd be inclined to stick with USB2 for the sake of my battery life. That's the more important feature for me, and why a P-Qi screen upgrade seems like such a powerful complement to the ARM processor in terms of energy efficiency.

 

[sebt3]

I honestly think it's too early to start adding stuff since by the time it's time for Pandora 2, tech will have advanced...

This.


And I finished my popcorn without having much fun here

 

[chris_c]

my wish list would be along the lines of...


jacket pocket form factor


2xSD slots - you could even get rid of the internal flash...


min 10hrs battery life (or better ideally!)


screen res is fine - but the phyisical screen could be larger (at the same res)


wake on alarm function - wake up from complete power down - like some pc bios's used to be able to do (great for pim function)


nvidia 3d (tegra) or much beefier sgx - ideally still gles 1.0 compatible - shaders are a major power and performance drain on mobile devices!


something better than flat ribbon cables for the lcd connection - they have ALWAYS been a nightmare and will always break 2-4 years down the line....

 

[marktuson]

Hi,


Looking into the future I was thinking about what features the next Pandora may have and decided id post my wish list for others to discuss and expand on:


My wish list for the ultimate Pandora would be (in no particular order):


1) Multitouch Capacitive touch screen - Higher resolution and perhaps 3d viewing capable such as per the 3DS


2) 3G with full phone functionality


3) 3 axis Accelerometer


4) Magnetometer for digital compass etc


5) GPS


6) Ability to run Android (probably can now?)


7) Faster Cpu at least 1ghz, probaby need to be a lot more considering todays products seem to have 1ghz cpu, future products would be expected to be a lot faster


8) Front and back facing cameras(5mp at least) with a LED flash - perhaps dual cameras front and back for 3d photos and video recording


9) Better speakers


10) Dual/Stereo mic


11) USB3 ports


12) 3 axis gyroscope


13) Proximity sensor


What would you like to see in it?

Phone functionality? This is a gaming console/palmtop, not a PDA. And 3D? You're joking, that technology's only just been miniaturized for stuff like that. Give it fifteen years or so.


What I'd like to see is no NAND, because they suck. Replace it with an internal SDHC/SDXC slot that's hidden under the battery (a la SIM card), or under the keyboard. That way, if it breaks it can be painlessly replaced; if it's not big enough, it can be upgraded; new OS, an image can be copied onto it using just a file browser. Or even a USB-based OS cartridge embedded inside the unit. 512MB isn't very clever for a modern OS, really: even my NanoNote has a 2GB partition for the OS. Oh, and more RAM. Maybe shove a laptop RAM slot into it? I've got a couple 1GB boards lying around


And bootable from USB? That way other OSes can be installed with relative ease, from the unit itself.


The only other thing I'd really want on my new Pandora, with it's 1GB of core and 32GB base storage is a proper Debian system, complete with the software to read PND-format software packages. I prefer Debian above all the other flavours... well, unless you count Slackware, but I only use that for CL programming, and not very often any more.


Maybe next time the starting point could be one of those Atom microboards, like how the foundation of the NanoNote is the LB60 microcontroller board? I know someone said that Pandora 2 won't be a Pandora if you start using other hardware, but we don't want it to be, do we? We want it to be better, a more modern take on what the Pandora is. It's like translating the Bible: Wycliffe's translation of ~1380 is vastly different to the Authorized version of 1611, which is different again to the New Jerusalem version of 1998*. They're all so different that someone who hasn't either got a copy of each or experience of the content wouldn't know they're all translations of the same content, but they are the same thing, just interpreted at different times and with different audiences in mind. So if the core of what the Pandora is and means is preserved, the architecture doesn't really matter, does it?


*This is the first example I could think of, because I collect Bibles and translations. I've actually just bought the quatercentenery edition of the Authorized Version, and have started work on updating Wycliffe's version into Modern English for a bit of linguistic fun.


(/essay)

 

[Blue Protoman]

I've always wanted to hear what Craig or ED think about all of this nonsensical speculation.

 

[Caine]

- VGA out in preference to TV out. This is probably my biggest gripe. I know the Pandora is intended as a gaming device, and from that context, TV out makes (or at least did make, when the board was originally developed) sense in many respects, considering the traditional game console heritage of using household TV for output. But many modern televisions incorporate VGA input now, and I know I will personally be wishing I could use my external PC monitors with the Pandora. I don't have a TV. I may even go so far as to get a TV-to-VGA converter, but they're expensive and makeshift. That said, VGA may wind up being replaced by DVI or something as standard in the near future, for all I know. In summary, I'd much rather be able to connect my Pandora to external computer monitors than to television monitors.


- "Remove the NAND and use a third SDHC card for booting/etc..." I participated in some earlier discussion on the merits of the NAND flash chip, and from what I remember, it's integrated into the chipset the Pandora uses, meaning it's a bit of an all-or-nothing proposition that you may as well run with. That said, if it's technically feasible, having an internal SDHC slot or something instead of irreplaceable NAND would make the Pandora that much more flexible in terms of its max memory capacity. The two external cards could be used be purely for memory storage, and swappable at any time, whereas the third internal card (which you wouldn't want to change much anyway) could be for the OS alone.

I'm not sure if you are aware, but the Pandora is equipped with an S-Video out for the same reason as why it has the NAND storage, it comes for "free" with the System-on-Chip package. The OMAP3 has a digital and analog video output which are wired to the touchscreen and video-out port respectively. Adding a VGA output would be hard to do and significantly increase the Pandora size.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall the OMAP4 providing at least two digital video outputs so replacing the S-Video out by DVI would be a given (or VGA/HDMI, though I think DVI would be a better choice).


If you are so concerned about the NAND, remember that you already have the option to install your OS and commonly used applications on one SD card in slot 1 and your roms, data and PND applications on another in slot 2. On the other hand, as long as you don't start doing daily writes to your NAND it should be fine, it does not die THAT rapidly.

 

[Bosbeetle]

2 words: backward compatibility

 

[Marsu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall the OMAP4 providing at least two digital video outputs so replacing the S-Video out by DVI would be a given (or VGA/HDMI, though I think DVI would be a better choice).

If I understand it correctly, using HDMI costs 10.000$/year in licensing fees: http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/videos_player.aspx?v=fees_royalties


(or 5000$/year + 1$/unit)


I do not know if DVI has similar fees, but even if not,DVI has the drawback of the big-ass connector. Or is there something like mini-DVI that I don't know about? [edit: apple had something like that, but phased it out in 2008 it seems -> Mini-DVI]


sooo. no digital video in the close future?

 

[Caine]

I do not know if DVI has similar fees, but even if not,DVI has the drawback of the big-ass connector. Or is there something like mini-DVI that I don't know about? [edit: apple had something like that, but phased it out in 2008 it seems -> Mini-DVI]


sooo. no digital video in the close future?

To my knowledge it does not, that's my reasoning for preferring it over HDMI. The connector would be on the other end of the DVI-out cable as I have understood it could be connected through the EXT port (the Pandora does not have a regular S-Video out port either).

 

[Grench]

I think it is just posts like yours that brings people to say that the current Pandora is a much better form factor, you must construe this as 'Then a few people stomp and scream about fracturing the user base and how perfect the existing one is' but you just described an awkward tablet or a netbook with gaming controls, confused as to which your describing. I'm just curious what a rendering of the monstrosity in your head would look like.

Sure. I can describe it.


Picture the Pandora as is, open, on your desk.


Remove the speakers from the sides of the screen. Instead of a 4.3" screen with 1" bezels to either side you're moing to a PixelQi 7" screen with no extra plastic around it. The lid already has a diagonal dimension of 6.4" - so we're talking about a display that will add right around 1" in diagonal measurements to the existing lid. The catch is that the speakers can't live there anymore. The Pixel Qi screen has an effective resolution of 1024x600, is daylight viewable, etc...


Time for the lower half. I have two options for dealing with this:


Option 1. Get out a big mental saw and cut it in half, more or less down the middle, working around the center QWERTY keys so that they end up on the left or right side depending on which finger would normally go after them if it were a full sized keyboard. The net result is that we're going to spread the keys apart by around 1".


Option 2. Leave the keyboard as is (and motherboard placement). Use the new 1/2" gaps on the left/right side to put in speakers on the left right corners toward the hinges.


In either case, the unit is a bit wider and a bit longer. If a thinner battery can be used, the device itself could shed some thickness. If two batteries are used (filling the left/right lower voids with the speakers), it could loose upwards of 1/3 of it's thickness.


So, this "monstrosity" would be pretty close to the same size as the existing Pandora, have 1024x600 resolution (614,400 pixels vs existing 384,000). That is a BIG increase in screen real estate for 1" in diagonal gain.


Not a netbook. Still a Pandora. Same montherboard could be used in this form factor.

 

[ripkirby]

I only have one wish for the next pandora - it's that I can take part in designing the chassis. I always wanted to make a gadget like the pandora and I volunteer myself for the design of the next generation.

 

[Prometheus]

@Grench - Wouldn't that make the screen a lot more fragile, without a bezel supporting it...?


(Regarding the thinness, I'm afraid I'd have to say that I disagree on that needing to happen to a descendant of the Pandora. For example, the Nintendo DSi's shoulder buttons are damn near unusable due to the device's ridiculous thinness - I've had to add a polycarbonate case with game slots on the back in order to work around this problem. :lol: )

 

[Blue Protoman]

How does thinness affect shoulder buttons?

 

[Prometheus]

^ Have you ever tried holding a ridiculously thin machine and trying to play a game that requires you to use the shoulder buttons? It's very painful.