Pandora 2, A Year Or So From Now?

[mali]

uhmm OMAP4 or MARVELL ARMADA 618 ?

From the Spec :

ARMv7 @1Ghz
API DirectX, Open GL ES 2.0 e Open VG 1.1
support Linux, Android & Windows Mobile.

The CPU of that Armada SoC is (in layman's terms) a modified ARM v7 compatible core similar to Cortex A8. It has got a shortened pipeline, IIRC. It wouldn't offer the same performance level of a dual core Cortex A9 in OMAP4, supposedly.

 

[willrandship]

I think that they should have at least 10 batches of original so that I have time to get an original panda. Why have one release, only to be superceded by a more powerful version?

 

[mali]

I think that they should have at least 10 batches of original so that I have time to get an original panda. Why have one release, only to be superceded by a more powerful version?

Too much speculation about the future, imo. There will be a Pandora 2 _sometime_ in the future. We don't need to know more or speculate, because speculations have no solid base to speculate on.

 

[Pleng]

NO NO NO NO GOOD GOD NO! Micro SD is great for devices that don't have the space for a full sized SD card. If the device can fit a full sized SD card, there is absolutely no reason to put in a micro and many reasons not to.

But but but but... in the space used by 2 SD slots, you could have 6 micro-SD slots!

not possible. Read above posts,......reason quoted above yours!

Whoooooooooooosh!

(In case you still missed it, I have ZERO interest in MicroSD cards)

 

[darionapole]

i just want the OP team to make quality based hardware instead of earnings based like most big companies.
I would buy whatever they make, not just the pandora, if they make a good wireless psx simil (or not) gamepad with good range, sensibility, and features (turbo, macro, both USB and blutooth, etc) i would SURELY buy it

 

[Dead1nside]

On a more serious point, since Pandora 1 isn't even out yet and I hope it's going to have a long long life. If in a few years down the road the possibility of another Pandora comes up, my money'll be there on day one this time.

 

[hlidegp2x]

Basically, what I'm hoping is that if the Pandora achieves sustained, healthy production, a future unit with all of the same outer features and only attaining an upgrade in ARM chipset will substantially lower the turn-around time for a follow-up. I mean, I could be wrong, but it really looked like the two big things that slowed the Pandora's release down were finishing the software stack and making everything that goes around the motherboard. A new chip that runs all the existing software, only "mo faster" would be pretty near in a year's time.

I ordered a Pandora from the first batch. And at this time, I must admit I'm less and less impressed with it. Supposedly OP has learned about their errors and won't take two years to design and produce their future products, I'm still interested with a Pandora II with a multi-core Cortex-A9 (two minimum) and a stereo bluetooth (i'm carrying hearing aids which can receive stereo sound through bluetooth and I cannot revert to earphone).

EDIT: by "two years", I mean a two-year preorder of course.

 

[marshal]

The pandora already has Blutooth.... I am not exactly sure how well the software side will handle ad2p bluetooth though.

 

[hlidegp2x]

The pandora already has Blutooth.... I am not exactly sure how well the software side will handle ad2p bluetooth though.

can anyone confirm this ad2p bluetooth ability in the Pandora's operating system ?

 

[Dead1nside]

The pandora already has Blutooth.... I am not exactly sure how well the software side will handle ad2p bluetooth though.

can anyone confirm this ad2p bluetooth ability in the Pandora's operating system ?

The presence of PulseAudio in the repositories suggests so.

 

[Monk]

I must admit, sall this talk of a faster Pandora in the future has got me lusting after a Pandora capable of better/faster DOSBox emulation, for all those games that Pandora1 and DOSBox don't seem to be quite fast enough to play - X-Wing and TIE Fighter spring readily to mind as things that I think will stress Pandora1 that maybe will be quite fast enough on Pandora2

But it isn't like end users HAVE to buy every version. Let's say you bought a Pandora in 2008 - an 18 month to 2 year "new version" cycle would admittedly put us on target for Pandora 2 pretty soon, but somehow I don't think that's going to happen this year. Even if it did - a Pandora2 doesn't magically make Pandora1 no longer function, or no longer do what it did the previous week. My GP2X still does what it did before I ordered my Pandora1, and I dsresay it will continue to do much of it - just for my son isntead of myself - for some time after my Pandora1 arrives.

You don't HAVE to "upgrade" or buy at every generation. Seriously - unless a new generation offers something YOU want... in which case, it's probably a device you want them to make! On the other hand, the rest of the market/world continues to spin. If OpenPandora stick with the current SOC for too long then - even discountign doomsayers who complain it's out of date already - it WILL become out of date and they will start to be seen as people who sell old, ageing, out-of-date equipment. I imagine they need to be selling, OK not cutting edge, but current - relevant - hardware. And that means releasing new versions faster than I want to upgrade, on the whole. That's fine - I won't buy them all (I'll probably skip the Pandora3).

In terms of home consoles - ignoring "computers" per se - I've shared a Binatone png/tennis/football jobbie with my family, I've played on a mates Atari, I had a lovely portable LED-based Space Invaders, then there was soemthing of a gap until I got an original black X-Box, then an F-200, and now I have a nice shiny new X-Box 360 Arcade. We still have - and use - the original old X-Box because as soon as the 360 was secured, I ripped the old one apart (confident that I couldn't make things worse) and appear to have fixed its overheating issue.

Next console is the Pandora. Then maybe a Pandora2 - or maybe I won't buy another mobile console until Pandora11. The choice is yours, as long as OpenPandora make 'em - it's if they DON'T come up with new designs that the choice will be taken out of our hands.

IMHO.

 

[laurencevde]

Well, anyways, there need to worthy chips available for an update to actually be possible. Until that happens, this discussion is pretty much moot.
Once those chips do become available, I think an update is the logical thing to do. If anything, the new chips should use less power for the same performance.

 

[wardred]

My wishlist for a Pandora2, in no particular order:
OLED screen
DV-output
usb3
compact-flash slots
bigger NAND
(gigabit) ethernet
camera
gps might come in handy
faster cpu is always nice
even more processing power/hour of batterylife (eg. bigger battery, and/or faster cpu, with even lower power usage)

Let's just wait until affordable parts that can deliver (most of) that are available, OK?

My short list
Better screen, if viable. (Current screen *good enough*)
1080P out for 3d and video. Probably wouldn't mess with an upgrade until this is viable.
A handheld and a console version, with optional docking station.
Docking station would have gig-e, internal 3.5" HD, hdmi out, and possibly in, etc.
Gig E ethernet - maybe only with the docking station and/or "console" version
Camera(s) - at least one facing the user
Nice to have:
USB3 / ESATA / Firewire / your connector here. Team would have to evaluate, maybe some would only be available on the docking station
GPS
3G cell phone capabilities <- maybe a different rev of the Pandora for those who want GPS/Cell capabilities
Not Necessary:
Bigger NAND

I think by the time the Pandora2 comes out we should have a 1080P console that is also a handheld, and be able to play the full up console games on the handheld. (In 1020P on the handheld if their's a good screen/price to support it. :- B)

In 3-5 years what I would want for a *next gen* Pandora would be something that could be used as either a hand-held OR a High Def console.

To me OLED or a different screen is a nice to have. By then it may even be affordable. The team would have to check what's out there. OLED might be it, or a transflective hybrid screen if they can get the refresh rate up high enough, or who knows? Clarity and refresh rate under conditions that normal LCDs look good would still be key.

What I'd really want though is:
1020P out via a mini-hdmi cable, similar to the way the Beagle Board does things. I don't think I'd bother with an upgrade until OMAP can handle that for both video decoding and realistically for 3d acceleration. Stick with OMAP if at all possible. VGA and S-video by then hopefully being meh, but MAYBE keeping the s-video for those who don't have HDMI on their TVs.

GigE ethernet

Camera - Yes, really, I'd want a camera. If you really wanted to get super fancy, 2 cameras, one facing you, the other facing out. (The camera, for video chat, would face the user in my model. Maybe pay the $$$ for one that can swivel front to back.)

GPS, nice to have, but not necessary.

If possible a spot to plugin the chips people use for cell phones, and a cell phone transmitter, and 3G. Probably not practical, and wouldn't come with the chip installed, but with a bluetooth headset it really could be a cellphone replacement. Another nice to have.

Bigger NAND to me is a meh. Anything *more* can go on the SD cards - OR....

A docking station. Here I'm thinking more of the console environment, though it could still be used with the hand held too. What I'm thinking is 2 Pandoras at that point. 1 is the one we know and love, but with the above beefed up specs. The other would be a console permanently hooked up to your HD TV. No screen, no controls, probably no camera since webcams are all close range things. So just a box with front facing USB and bluetooth controllers capable of pushing 1020P media to your TV and playing 3d games designed for 1020p.

The docking station would have room for a regular 3.5 inch HD, have your gig-e ethernet, and anything else that wouldn't fit in the normal form factor of a handheld. It would also have at least 1 more video out, possibly more video/sound in. (The 1 more video out would be so that if you have the handheld, your TV is plugged into the docking station.) With this much power the HD could also carry a full desktop OS distro with KDE or Gnome if you really wanted to run them, though you'd still need a way to unload as much from memory as possible when playing games.

MORE MEMORY. By that time it should be possible to get into the gigabyte range for memory. 2-4 gig would be the sweet spot.

Edit: Laurencevde caught my specs error.

 

[laurencevde]

I think you mean 1080P...
As for 3D: if you want proper 3D (actually stereoscopic imaging), you're going to need an OLED-screen. The shutterglass-technique requires, for proper effect, high-frequency image-switching, with perfect image-separation(ie. no ghosting). Something OLED can deliver, but LCD can't. For those LCD-tv's with 3d-support, it's basically just another, practically free(just the shutterglasses, a sync-interface, HDMI 1.4-support, and a bit of software. They already added the 200+Hz for other reasons), gimmick they can tack onto its marketing-card. Don't believe me? Just read this: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/01/3d-tv-is-coming-ready-or-not.ars

 

[wardred]

I think you mean 1080P...
As for 3D: if you want proper 3D (actually stereoscopic imaging), you're going to need an OLED-screen.

Nope, just meant the ability to play *choose your 3d game of choice* 3d accelerated with a decent set of features without slowing to a crawl. Like we can play Quake3 now on the current screen. Bump it up to 1080P with medium to high settings, anti-aliasing, all that good stuff. Not practical now, but in 5 years?

Edit: The Pandora will be more than powerful enough to stand on its own until that time. The DS is still going strong, the PSP is still there. We'll have plenty of emulators when it releases, and a few games designed for it, but I think it may take a year or two to build the library up for the Pandora, whether it's ports from other platforms or writing games natively for it.

I don't believe it'll make sense to make a Pandora 2 in anything under 3 years, and I think that bump to 1080P would be the feature that would make it worth while, both as a hand-held, and as another console/entertainment center under the boob tube.

Streaming 1080P movies from my array of 2TB green drives *well, when I buy them* on a device that uses less power than my PC at stand-bye? Yes please. (It would need good 5.1 or 7.1 out too.)

Edit 2: And hey, who knows, maybe a *defacto* html5 standard will be in use by then with h.264 that the Pandora could decode natively with its DSP.

Edit 3: As for power? I think we already have a pretty ridiculously high battery life. Instead of going for more battery life, I'd want more performance without using more power. (Or, if battery densities increase, use a little more power but make up for it with a better battery.) Basically a more powerful system, but with the same amount of battery life. But that's just me.

 

[svs-57]

Many people including me very sad about OP formfactor.
Will be nice if OP2 will be slider or better has formfactor like Zaurus sl750 or 1000
Display of Zaurus can be turned 180 degree and put on keyboard.
It can be mini notebook or tablet.

The clamshell design is the best for the Pandora. It is the most practical because it allows for the largest possible screen, keyboard and battery without compromising gamecontrols or connectivity. If you want something between a portable console and a netbook then this is the only way to do it well. The Pandora is designed to be unique, not do be as all the other devices.

BTW, the only Zaurus pics I can find are also clamshell.

What model of Zaurus you find?
Look at sl750, sl850, sl1000, sl3200 etc.
These devices can be used in 2 different way

 

[Kangal]

Look at sl750, sl850, sl1000, sl3200 etc.
These devices can be used in 2 different way

Although it is wicked functionally, that hinge is very weak.
I haven't personally tested the Zaurus, but I did get to play with a mates tablet pc, it was weak and he sent it in many times to strengthen the joint. After 4months he gave up and just got a laptop. I had/have a in-car dvd player which is roof mounted. It snapped off while going on rocky terrain.

Trust me, even the best revised swivel hinges give up in a year of regular use.
Its just the nature of the design, sacrifice stability for functionality.

I hope that the Pandora is continually revised and the second batch goes successfully.
Then OP focuses on upgrading the internals, OMAP 4 is the clear choice.
Porting existing Pandora software would be easy on a OMAP 4 due to similar architecture.
Plus 4's are pretty powerful/effecient: on par with Tegra 2 (slightly more powerful but uses slightly more battery).
Perhaps the added power might make some emulation possible and others polished/full speed.

See this for reference, found it on xda-developers:

 

[svs-57]

"hinge is very weak"
I didn't hear any incident with Zaurus hinge.
I use it during whole Zaurus life cycle.

 

[Exophase]

That diagram must be taken with a whole block of salt, given that the most interestingly placed chips aren't even out in any form and most of the rest haven't been compared in any kind of reasonable common benchmarks.

 

[Kangal]

That diagram must be taken with a whole block of salt, given that the most interestingly placed chips aren't even out in any form and most of the rest haven't been compared in any kind of reasonable common benchmarks.

Yeah that's what I thought, but then again it does have truth behind it, so its half rubbish. Like all ARM's are placed towards battery life and Core2Duo is much more powerful than any Atom derivative. Going blindly by that diagram, a 2GHz Dual-A9 will be a mean machine!