Pandora 2, A Year Or So From Now?


Tegra 2 would be a bad move for compatibility reasons. I think there'll be an OMAP4 available to normal people (ie, purchasable chips from Digikey, maybe even new Beagleboard) sooner than people think. I don't see TI dragging their feet on this one. They could afford to take forever to fully roll out OMAP3. Now that there are a lot more heavily competing SoCs they don't have that luxury.
 
Orion4874 said:
4) Micro SD slots
NO NO NO NO GOOD GOD NO! Micro SD is great for devices that don't have the space for a full sized SD card. If the device can fit a full sized SD card, there is absolutely no reason to put in a micro and many reasons not to.

edit: in case it wasn't obvious, I really hate micro SD cards
 
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Jeffery Mewtamer said:
That being said, a few things I would like to see in a future Pandora successor:

An ARM powerful enough to emulate 6th Gen home consoles while maintaining code compatibility with Cortex A8 binaries.
100GB+ of internal storage and Dual SDXC slots(All the extra space will be needed to make DVD-based games viable).
Clamshell to Tablet transformation(Screen flips out 180 degrees and then slides down over the controls).
A built-in camera would be nice, but ONLY if it was comparable to dedicated digital cameras/camcorders.
Line-in with recording capability for both audio and video sources.
I'd like to see it make ramen, too, but that's not practical.
You probably won't see 100 GB of storage unless someone, right now, is discovering a way to make flash vastly cheaper or hard drives vastly smaller, cheaper, more power-efficient, and more durable. Edit: Actually, in 5 years, with Moore's law... This might happen. But that's quite far out to be thinking.
Tablets are apparently patented. What a dick move, right? Right. Dicks.
The camera would be nice since apparently cell phones have fantastic cameras, but I couldn't fucking download the video from my last one because it was a piece of shit.
I haven't even seen desktop PCs with video-in recorders. They're a really cool feature, but most people don't need them, so they're considered peripheral. I have no clue how a handheld with a cheap ARM chipset would have one built-in.
 
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WizardStan said:
Orion4874 said:
4) Micro SD slots
NO NO NO NO GOOD GOD NO! Micro SD is great for devices that don't have the space for a full sized SD card. If the device can fit a full sized SD card, there is absolutely no reason to put in a micro and many reasons not to.

edit: in case it wasn't obvious, I really hate micro SD cards

Can't we compromise and settle on mini SD? :blink:
 
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WizardStan said:
Orion4874 said:
4) Micro SD slots
NO NO NO NO GOOD GOD NO! Micro SD is great for devices that don't have the space for a full sized SD card. If the device can fit a full sized SD card, there is absolutely no reason to put in a micro and many reasons not to.

edit: in case it wasn't obvious, I really hate micro SD cards

I really only included that because it would free up some room in the next version. Other than that it doesn't matter to me, SD is fine.
 
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WizardStan said:
edit: in case it wasn't obvious, I really hate micro SD cards
You sure? Maybe if you just give them a chance, you know, like a retarded cousin... don't hate the retarded cousin. It's not his fault, he was made that way.

Sorry, had to :p
 
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OMAP4 doesn't seem like big enough of a deal for pandora 2 to be released on that platform, it's such a miniscule upgrade (in comparison to other consoles generations') that it's sort of a waste, it's not even a doubling of performance. If other consoles upgraded like this, we would be up to playstation 6.

Pandora is a console, you don't upgrade your console every single year for something bigger and better that's available. Maybe 2 years from now, OMAP5 might be a big enough upgrade for it to matter.
 
lulzfish said:
Jeffery Mewtamer said:
That being said, a few things I would like to see in a future Pandora successor:

An ARM powerful enough to emulate 6th Gen home consoles while maintaining code compatibility with Cortex A8 binaries.
100GB+ of internal storage and Dual SDXC slots(All the extra space will be needed to make DVD-based games viable).
Clamshell to Tablet transformation(Screen flips out 180 degrees and then slides down over the controls).
A built-in camera would be nice, but ONLY if it was comparable to dedicated digital cameras/camcorders.
Line-in with recording capability for both audio and video sources.
I'd like to see it make ramen, too, but that's not practical.
You probably won't see 100 GB of storage unless someone, right now, is discovering a way to make flash vastly cheaper or hard drives vastly smaller, cheaper, more power-efficient, and more durable. Edit: Actually, in 5 years, with Moore's law... This might happen. But that's quite far out to be thinking.
Tablets are apparently patented. What a dick move, right? Right. Dicks.
The camera would be nice since apparently cell phones have fantastic cameras, but I couldn't fucking download the video from my last one because it was a piece of shit.
I haven't even seen desktop PCs with video-in recorders. They're a really cool feature, but most people don't need them, so they're considered peripheral. I have no clue how a handheld with a cheap ARM chipset would have one built-in.

Regarding video-in, the OMAP3 chipset can have an analog video input, the Archos 5 has one for this purpose. It may be an option of future OMAP chipsets, but if you want a drop in board I wouldn't expect many of those fancy extra features. Unless the future chipset uses a really, really small die.
 
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lulzfish said:
I'd like to see it make ramen, too, but that's not practical.

Actually, the ability to make ramen would be very practical.
 
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PhillipJ said:
WizardStan said:
Orion4874 said:
4) Micro SD slots
NO NO NO NO GOOD GOD NO! Micro SD is great for devices that don't have the space for a full sized SD card. If the device can fit a full sized SD card, there is absolutely no reason to put in a micro and many reasons not to.

edit: in case it wasn't obvious, I really hate micro SD cards

Can't we compromise and settle on mini SD? :blink:

i just got an idea, maybe OP team likes it. Why no use a microSD card instead of internal, on board nand chip?, instead of the chip, there could be a kind of socket (if that's how they are called) , like those for the cellphones' SIM chips, so it would be expandible, and you wouldn't have to throu away your pandora when your nand dies....what about that?. it could even be below the battery like in cellphones, for easy remplacement.


sorry for bad english :p


EDIT: plus u could, reemplanse it with a faster one for faster booting tim. the nand chip would be used only for the boot loader and as the boot loader isn't so big, OP"team could use a smaller, cheaper nand chip. The main os could be shipped in a CD with a program to format the card to make it booteable and then copy the files to it. (a program to install the os to the microsd card).
This would make the pandora even more inbrickeable
 
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laharl said:
instead of the chip, there could be a kind of socket (if that's how they are called) , like those for the cellphones' SIM chips, so it would be expandible, and you wouldn't have to throu away your pandora when your nand dies....what about that?
The Pandora already has that. It's called the other SD slot.

The OMAP3 (and likely OMAP4) only has the capability to control two SD slots. Making one of them internal-only (like the ODROID) is unnecessarily limiting. Better to have them both easily accessible. If you like, you can simply put a piece of tape over one slot and pretend it is internal.
 
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WizardStan said:
NO NO NO NO GOOD GOD NO! Micro SD is great for devices that don't have the space for a full sized SD card. If the device can fit a full sized SD card, there is absolutely no reason to put in a micro and many reasons not to.

But but but but... in the space used by 2 SD slots, you could have 6 micro-SD slots! :p
 
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An OMAP4 drop-in would probably be best, if for no other reason than the aforementioned compatibility. Anything less than a year seems wrong, but 3-5 for what's essentially an entirely internal replacement is a bit much. I'm also not sure we need a laundry list of improvements. FFS, it already has a full qwerty keyboard, dual analog nubs, a SNES controller's worth of buttons (in an identical configuration) on TOP of all that, a touch screen, dual SD slots, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, USB slave (I think) AND host, and a level of open source support only reached (and it's a distance second) by the button-less Touchbook (which, as you might guess, kinda sucks at playing games). Aside from a slightly faster chip, just what more does a homebrew handheld need?

While I brought up the idea of a chip update in a year (keep in mind that most companies update their products or release new ones on a six-month cycle. Heck, even most Linux/Unix distros work on that interval), and only a chip update, it wasn't to ruin the experience for existing owners. I'm well aware of how annoying it is when development ceases on one platform to move onto another (I own two "A-100" generation NMT devices. Now that the PCH A-200 is out, there's very little chance that we'll ever see IDX/SUB support on the older models).

But would that really happen with this sort of upgrade?

We're talking going from the exact same screen and buttons that are already in the Pandora to a faster chip. Old software would work across both (especially given that I doubt we'll see an update for OpenGL ES 2.0 this year, and possibly not next), and new software would work just fine across both as well. About the only diff would come from performance edge cases (say, nullDC or Quake 3 derived games) where the updated model could benefit from nicer framerates. The thing is, we're not talking about a console or even an OS generational update. The Angstrom OS the Pandora runs on is light enough that we really don't need to worry about potential bloat in new software. Plus given that this is a community and not a company fiending to get rid of old hardware, I can't imagine we'd see new apps that aren't compatible with the current model, or even OS updates for that matter (How could it? It's the OPEN Pandora. They're not gonna REMOVE drivers from future updates, there'd be more backlash than it would be worth). There's also something that seems to be ignored by the "Why bother buying this one when there's an update coming?" crowd. Why does it even need to replace the Pandora? Maybe the OMAP4 model comes at a price premium, and they're both sold side-by-side. People who need program X to run 20% faster (or can't go fifteen seconds without playing the 1080p movies they have stored on their 2.5" USB drive on the 480p screen ;) ) go for OMAP4, everyone else just buys the OMAP3 Pandora. It's not a cell phone by Apple, "upgrade" doesn't mean "kill the old one", it means "multiple market segments".

It's a hand-held gaming device. The screen, while bloody AWESOME for gaming and watching movies, really sucks for a desktop environment (IM, office, web browsing). Why does a 4" screen even need to do that? Does it really need Compiz? Does it really need extra fluff in the interface that can't be handled by updating the loader? (and I can't imagine the loader getting an update that the OMAP3 would flinch at, especially given that it all hides away when the game starts running) Does it really need a sharper screen? The Pandora's already got a higher DPI than the bloody KINDLE (800x600 vs 800x480, but at a smaller screen size). It almost doesn't need anti-aliasing the screen's so sharp.

I'm not saying this even needs to happen in the first place. The Pandora is just about to start shipping, so I'm sure it'll be about a year before an internal update even comes into an honest dialogue.

I'm just saying it would be pretty neat.
 
Content is the key, so I'd like to see that maturing first. Loads of fun to expect before we hit the performance wall. MWeston will know what to do when it's the right time :)
 
mali said:
Content is the key, so I'd like to see that maturing first. Loads of fun to expect before we hit the performance wall. MWeston will know what to do when it's the right time :)

I mean, I think a year is solid, because there's still the prospect of overclocking, which I remember reading about when the device was in its infancy.
 
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Tokiopop said:
I remember Craig or someone saying it would be quite a while before thinking about a Pandora 2 as they want a break. Something on those lines, anyway.

He also said they were going to rest up for a few months between the end of the First Batch and getting the ball rolling on the Second Batch - but they have already ordered parts for batches 2 and 3, apparently. Time marches on - it's easy to forget just how much of it has marched.

Alpha2 said:
Why would we need a new one a year from now when we've not even remotely scratched the surface of what THIS one can do?


Power. Increased speed, RAM capacity and so on would make x86 emulation better, and increase the chances of running Windows games (for example).

Elanzer said:
OMAP4 doesn't seem like big enough of a deal for pandora 2 to be released on that platform, it's such a miniscule upgrade (in comparison to other consoles generations') that it's sort of a waste, it's not even a doubling of performance. If other consoles upgraded like this, we would be up to playstation 6.

OK - so would an OMAP4 based Pandora perhaps be a Pandora 1.5, or a "Pandora Lite" or a "Pandora Arcade"/"Pandora Elite"/"Pandora Premium" or somesuch?

I'm not sure that a drop-in upgrade would be worth the effot to end users - surely much of the cost of a Pandora is a populated PCB, so the cost is going to be high and you're going to trash your Pandora1 in the upgrade. If you buy a whole new Pandora2 - the usual "upgrade" path for consoles - you get the benefit that the vendor assembled the whole thing AND you still have a Pandora1, for eBay or or "backup". I agree it would be great if Pandora2 (or whatever) is CAPABLE of being a drop-in replacement, so that the controls and case don't have to go through development hell again, I'm just not sure of the wisdom of actually upgrading that way. What a waste of old Pandora1 boards!
 
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i want a pentium 4 (a prescott one XD) in the pandora 2 :rolleyes:
if not posible, i would like to see one of those quad core arm chips I saw somewhere. or at least dual, so it wouldn't slow down while it's recording the screen (very light xvid at 30fps maybe?) or having comething on the background, like firefox (plus all its addons), audacious with equalizer and stuff, etc
 
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