Our New Machine, Pandora

[God Ginrai]

@TyBO! - I see.

EDIT: This just HAS to be addressed:

If the final design (enough buttons to play N64 and a DPAD and an analog Stick) is of my taste i will pay 290 € easily if the sends are included

What is it with everyone and the stupid N64? Designing the system around N64 would be shit. Why does everyone have to have it? The N64 was a crap system. It didn't have many games, the graphics were awful with its low res blurry textures, origami characters, and draw "distance" that went into fog 2 feet in front of you. The game library mostly comprised of terrible racing games and abysmal 3D fighting games. Other than Mario 64 that you can play on a DS What is it that everyone just HAS to have? I don't get it


1. Ocarina of Time
2. Bomberman 64
3. Winback: Covert Operations
4. Goldeneye
5. Super Smash Bros.
6. 1080 Snowboarding
7. Majora's Mask
8. Bomberman 64: Second Attack
9. Perfect Dark
10. Extreme G
11. BattleTanx
12. BattleTanx: Global Assault

Do I need to list more?

Stop being so conceited and thinking that only the systems you like are good and those you don't are bad.

-God Ginrai


Go back and look and maybe actually play those again. You may have fond memories of them but they look like crap as far as 3D stuff. Since everything now days is 3D you can directly compare them. There are many 3D games on the DS, PSP etc that make those games look like absolute rubbish. Designing a system around N64 would mean weird awkward controls for everything else, it isn't worth it.


I have my N64 plugged in, and I own the first 8 on my list. (and the last 2) I still play those at least once a week. I know the graphics aren't great. But if you look at it that way, by comparison, your precious SNES graphics are shit. I miss the old days, back when games were harder and the GAMEPLAY was what was important in the games, not the graphics. (I love great graphics, but if the game is shit, I won't buy it)

EDIT: The N64 control scheme is a merger of the Genesis and the SNES control schemes, with an added analog stick. I don't see how this RUINS anything.

-God Ginrai

 

[TyBO!]

Go back and look and maybe actually play those again. You may have fond memories of them but they look like crap as far as 3D stuff. Since everything now days is 3D you can directly compare them. There are many 3D games on the DS, PSP etc that make those games look like absolute rubbish. Designing a system around N64 would mean weird awkward controls for everything else, it isn't worth it.

I still play Ocarina of Time and Mario 64 today, and I think those games look great.

The N64 had a lot of games that appealed to a lot of people. You can't deny the demand for N64 on the new machine.

I don't personally like the vertical arcade shoot-em-ups that you seem to love so much, but I'm not running around bashing the graphics or the controls for those games.

 

[DaveC]

I have my N64 plugged in, and I own the first 8 on my list. (and the last 2) I still play those at least once a week. I know the graphics aren't great. But if you look at it that way, by comparison, your precious SNES graphics are shit. I miss the old days, back when games were harder and the GAMEPLAY was what was important in the games, not the graphics. (I love great graphics, but if the game is shit, I won't buy it)

EDIT: The N64 control scheme is a merger of the Genesis and the SNES control schemes, with an added analog stick. I don't see how this RUINS anything.

-God Ginrai

But "precious SNES" hand drawn art type games can't be found anymore. Everything is 3D nowdays. There are much better ways to play 3D stuff. The N64 was poor at 3D and that is all it did.

Also you need an analog stick. This replaces other controls/buttons/pad that would be good for other stuff.

 

[God Ginrai]

I have my N64 plugged in, and I own the first 8 on my list. (and the last 2) I still play those at least once a week. I know the graphics aren't great. But if you look at it that way, by comparison, your precious SNES graphics are shit. I miss the old days, back when games were harder and the GAMEPLAY was what was important in the games, not the graphics. (I love great graphics, but if the game is shit, I won't buy it)

EDIT: The N64 control scheme is a merger of the Genesis and the SNES control schemes, with an added analog stick. I don't see how this RUINS anything.

-God Ginrai

But "precious SNES" hand drawn art type games can't be found anymore. Everything is 3D nowdays. There are much better ways to play 3D stuff. The N64 was poor at 3D and that is all it did.

Also you need an analog stick. This replaces other controls/buttons/pad that would be good for other stuff.


First of all, Like I said earlier, most of the games nowadays, although they have good graphics, suck at gameplay.

Second, the analog stick wouldn't replace a pad if we used one of the many proposed methods that people have suggested, like we told you about 10 pages back, last time you complained about the analog stick.

Third, I've already told you that the current plan is SNES pad button style, there ARE no buttons to lose on the left, currently, all there is is the Dpad and the Left Shoulder.

-God Ginrai

 

[quartercast]

If the final design (enough buttons to play N64 and a DPAD and an analog Stick) is of my taste i will pay 290 € easily if the sends are included

What is it with everyone and the stupid N64? Designing the system around N64 would be shit. Why does everyone have to have it? The N64 was a crap system. It didn't have many games, the graphics were awful with its low res blurry textures, origami characters, and draw "distance" that went into fog 2 feet in front of you. The game library mostly comprised of terrible racing games and abysmal 3D fighting games. Other than Mario 64 that you can play on a DS What is it that everyone just HAS to have? I don't get it


Pilotwings 64. I loved that game!

 

[atomicthumbs]

Lastly, and this sounds silly I'll grant you- This venture reminds me a lot of the old 8bit days where British innovators ruled the market; Sinclair, Amstrad and many more. This handheld might be built wherever, but its spec'd, commissioned and owned by a British company and that makes me proud.

I don't remember any of those. :unsure:


That's strange. I was born in 1992 and I remember them. Maybe I'm just obsessed with old computers.

@TyBO! - I see.

EDIT: This just HAS to be addressed:

If the final design (enough buttons to play N64 and a DPAD and an analog Stick) is of my taste i will pay 290 € easily if the sends are included

What is it with everyone and the stupid N64? Designing the system around N64 would be shit. Why does everyone have to have it? The N64 was a crap system. It didn't have many games, the graphics were awful with its low res blurry textures, origami characters, and draw "distance" that went into fog 2 feet in front of you. The game library mostly comprised of terrible racing games and abysmal 3D fighting games. Other than Mario 64 that you can play on a DS What is it that everyone just HAS to have? I don't get it


1. Ocarina of Time
2. Bomberman 64
3. Winback: Covert Operations
4. Goldeneye
5. Super Smash Bros.
6. 1080 Snowboarding
7. Majora's Mask
8. Bomberman 64: Second Attack
9. Perfect Dark
10. Extreme G
11. BattleTanx
12. BattleTanx: Global Assault

Do I need to list more?

Stop being so conceited and thinking that only the systems you like are good and those you don't are bad.

-God Ginrai


Go back and look and maybe actually play those again. You may have fond memories of them but they look like crap as far as 3D stuff. Since everything now days is 3D you can directly compare them. There are many 3D games on the DS, PSP etc that make those games look like absolute rubbish. Designing a system around N64 would mean weird awkward controls for everything else, it isn't worth it.


I played Super Smash Bros. on my N64 with my borther a few hours ago. I didn't notice the graphics. I noticed the gameplay. Same with Ocarina of Time (played that last week) and F-Zero X (teh funzorz).

edit: whoops, double post

edit2: whoops, never mind

 

[God Ginrai]

Lastly, and this sounds silly I'll grant you- This venture reminds me a lot of the old 8bit days where British innovators ruled the market; Sinclair, Amstrad and many more. This handheld might be built wherever, but its spec'd, commissioned and owned by a British company and that makes me proud.

I don't remember any of those. :unsure:


That's strange. I was born in 1992 and I remember them. Maybe I'm just obsessed with old computers.

@TyBO! - I see.

EDIT: This just HAS to be addressed:

If the final design (enough buttons to play N64 and a DPAD and an analog Stick) is of my taste i will pay 290 € easily if the sends are included

What is it with everyone and the stupid N64? Designing the system around N64 would be shit. Why does everyone have to have it? The N64 was a crap system. It didn't have many games, the graphics were awful with its low res blurry textures, origami characters, and draw "distance" that went into fog 2 feet in front of you. The game library mostly comprised of terrible racing games and abysmal 3D fighting games. Other than Mario 64 that you can play on a DS What is it that everyone just HAS to have? I don't get it


1. Ocarina of Time
2. Bomberman 64
3. Winback: Covert Operations
4. Goldeneye
5. Super Smash Bros.
6. 1080 Snowboarding
7. Majora's Mask
8. Bomberman 64: Second Attack
9. Perfect Dark
10. Extreme G
11. BattleTanx
12. BattleTanx: Global Assault

Do I need to list more?

Stop being so conceited and thinking that only the systems you like are good and those you don't are bad.

-God Ginrai


Go back and look and maybe actually play those again. You may have fond memories of them but they look like crap as far as 3D stuff. Since everything now days is 3D you can directly compare them. There are many 3D games on the DS, PSP etc that make those games look like absolute rubbish. Designing a system around N64 would mean weird awkward controls for everything else, it isn't worth it.


I played Super Smash Bros. on my N64 with my borther a few hours ago. I didn't notice the graphics. I noticed the gameplay. Same with Ocarina of Time (played that last week) and F-Zero X (teh funzorz).

edit: whoops, double post


I've never played any of the F-Zero games, but I definitely agree with you about OoT. As for Super Smash Bros., because I play Melee so much, I notice the graphics, but I still play it because the gameplay is good and Kirby isn't ruined like in Melee. Not to mention, on a game like Super Smash, on a handheld screen, it would look really good.

-God Ginrai

 

[Exophase]

I hope it doesn't have a d-pad just to piss DaveC off. Just kidding. No one ever suggested no d-pad (and I doubt anyone wants to sacrifice it), doesn't mean it couldn't have an analog stick somewhere else, doesn't have to be a sacrifice...

One reason everyone wants N64 emulation is because it isn't being done on any other handhelds except PSP where it isn't really done at acceptable speeds for more than a small number of games (and even that's debatable). While you might be happy just getting SNES emulation that can always run without frameskip when rendering the graphics properly other people might want more significant breakthroughs.

Whether you like it or not this is going to be a platform with 3D capabilities, that much is definite. Some kind of analog control would complement that.

 

[Yrx]

I still consider Perfect Dark the best FPS of all time, especially when the controls are properly set up. But even if the controls are the original, still an awesome game.

I think I can understand what Dave is getting at, but he's going about it in the wrong way. Needless to say, the main control scheme is going to be for pre 3d games, I'm sure. And honestly, if there was going to be something other than a dpad for primary controls, I would probably pass. But if there's some kind of analog function that doesn't get in the way of regular controls, that would likely help it from both a marketing standpoint and a function standpoint.

Okay?

 

[DaveC]

I hope it doesn't have a d-pad just to piss DaveC off. Just kidding. No one ever suggested no d-pad (and I doubt anyone wants to sacrifice it), doesn't mean it couldn't have an analog stick somewhere else, doesn't have to be a sacrifice...

One reason everyone wants N64 emulation is because it isn't being done on any other handhelds except PSP where it isn't really done at acceptable speeds for more than a small number of games (and even that's debatable). While you might be happy just getting SNES emulation that can always run without frameskip when rendering the graphics properly other people might want more significant breakthroughs.

Whether you like it or not this is going to be a platform with 3D capabilities, that much is definite. Some kind of analog control would complement that.

Well the analog WOULD replace any kind of buttons that could be used for MAME type arcade stuff. Playing 320 high stuff on a 480 high screen would result in a fractionally scaled small image making them not worth playing.

For some reason though as you said this will have 3D and it seems like that is all everyone wants for some odd reason. I guess Xbox, PS2, Xbox 360, PS3, DS, PSP, PC etc aren't enough for 3D. We need everything to be 3D oriented I guess. I mean running n64 and a Quake port is all that matters right?

 

[Yrx]

I hope it doesn't have a d-pad just to piss DaveC off. Just kidding. No one ever suggested no d-pad (and I doubt anyone wants to sacrifice it), doesn't mean it couldn't have an analog stick somewhere else, doesn't have to be a sacrifice...

One reason everyone wants N64 emulation is because it isn't being done on any other handhelds except PSP where it isn't really done at acceptable speeds for more than a small number of games (and even that's debatable). While you might be happy just getting SNES emulation that can always run without frameskip when rendering the graphics properly other people might want more significant breakthroughs.

Whether you like it or not this is going to be a platform with 3D capabilities, that much is definite. Some kind of analog control would complement that.

Well the analog WOULD replace any kind of buttons that could be used for MAME type arcade stuff. Playing 320 high stuff on a 480 high screen would result in a fractionally scaled small image making them not worth playing.

For some reason though as you said this will have 3D and it seems like that is all everyone wants for some odd reason. I guess Xbox, PS2, Xbox 360, PS3, DS, PSP, PC etc aren't enough for 3D. We need everything to be 3D oriented I guess. I mean running n64 and a Quake port is all that matters right?

First of all, the analog WOULDN'T necessarily need to replace anything, not if it was done well. Also, it's REALLY kind of getting annoying the way you keep bunching all 3d games together. If you never got into 3d games, that's cool, and I can completely sympathize with that. I love the old Megaman X games, and hated when they went into 3d. But to classify all 3d games as the same would be like if I said there was no difference between Galaga and Darius. It's just stupid.

Some 3d games are excellent, and some aren't. Plus, just the fact that you can list all the 3d systems doesn't mean they're all portable, nor does it mean that they all have the games that people want to play.

By the way, no offense, but that's some serious genre bigotry right there. h34r:

 

[Vince2501]

One question for this phone/pda/handheld: Would it have a sims card? Because I' m with Cricket (and I used to work for them) and they never use sims cards. Some stores have been able to get around it but with a sacrifice of certain features.

 

[TyBO!]

Demand for good 3D controls > Demand for good vertical MAME game controls

We heard you the first dozen times DaveC, and you're not changing anyones mind about 3D games.

One question for this phone/pda/handheld: Would it have a sims card? Because I' m with Cricket (and I used to work for them) and they never use sims cards. Some stores have been able to get around it but with a sacrifice of certain features.

This isn't really a phone.

 

[icurafu]

One question for this phone/pda/handheld: Would it have a sims card? Because I' m with Cricket (and I used to work for them) and they never use sims cards. Some stores have been able to get around it but with a sacrifice of certain features.

This is not a phone.

 

[atomicthumbs]

One question for this phone/pda/handheld: Would it have a sims card? Because I' m with Cricket (and I used to work for them) and they never use sims cards. Some stores have been able to get around it but with a sacrifice of certain features.

Not a phone.

How about a D-pad that flips over (with a little latch or button) to reveal an analog stick? Best of both worlds!

 

[Yrx]

How about a D-pad that flips over (with a little latch or button) to reveal an analog stick? Best of both worlds!

That would be an engineering nightmare, is the only thing.

It seems to me like this is a false dichotomy, here. It doesn't have to be 3d OR vertical MAME. Even a clip-on dual analog attachment to replace the keyboard would be really cool. Actually, that would be pretty awesome...

 

[DaveC]

First of all, the analog WOULDN'T necessarily need to replace anything, not if it was done well. Also, it's REALLY kind of getting annoying the way you keep bunching all 3d games together. If you never got into 3d games, that's cool, and I can completely sympathize with that. I love the old Megaman X games, and hated when they went into 3d. But to classify all 3d games as the same would be like if I said there was no difference between Galaga and Darius. It's just stupid.

Some 3d games are excellent, and some aren't. Plus, just the fact that you can list all the 3d systems doesn't mean they're all portable, nor does it mean that they all have the games that people want to play.

By the way, no offense, but that's some serious genre bigotry right there. h34r:

Well you would have to put that analog somewhere Anything like buttons etc would have to be removed to make room. Also some stupid stick poking out getting in the way would not be that great either.

Some of the ones I listed are portable. Those aren't good enough? What are you going to play on this that you can't on those others? Something tells me there will be alot more and better 3D stuff on the PSP or DS than on this just because of the better support.

I like 3D but when I play it I want GOOD 3D. After playing stuff like Bioshock, Halo, GOW on the Xbox 360 I am not going to be real thrilled playing some pixelly low polygon Quake game or some low res fog choked n64 game. There was more fog in an N64 game than there was in a Pink Floyd concert. Playing 3D stuff is just not too fun or immersive on a 4" screen. I have a PSP and was impressed with the 3D on it for 15 minutes. It was like oooh looks cool, wow pretty smooth. Then after the initial impression I just tossed it into a drawer and went back to the 360 or PS3 for much better 3D.

 

[Yrx]

Not all N64 was like Superman. A lot of the games (Conker and Perfect Dark, for example) really pushed what that system could do, and even some early games (Mario 64) were really pretty.Plus, the gameplay on some N64 games was awesome. Saying that there might be better looking 3d stuff on DS and PSP is like saying that we shouldn't support NES games because SNES had better graphics. It all comes down to preference, and in the end, the main goal should be to make as many preferences as possible a reality.

Honestly, I don't care if it doesn't have buttons to play vertical cabinets in MAME. I would never bother with them anyways, seeing as I don't care about shooters and practically every other kind of game would have a console port I could use. But if a solution can be reached that isn't detrimental to either group, then that solution should be used (assuming it won't cost an extra buttload of money).

Like I said before, it's a false dichotomy. If you want your MAME stuff, then it might be beneficial to brainstorm on designs that include an analog stick, since craigix is listening to us. That way, you won't be stuck with something you hate when you could've had something you really liked.

 

[J201605]

Hydro thunder, fzero x and san francisco rush 2049 would be amazing on a handheld. N64 is awesome... especially because unlike psx the file sizes are small. We must have analog control.

 

[DaveC]

Hydro thunder, fzero x and san francisco rush 2049 would be amazing on a handheld. N64 is awesome... especially because unlike psx the file sizes are small. We must have analog control.

Oh yeah ruin the design for everything else just so we can play a few crappy blurry, foggy, low-res racing games. N64 blows. We must have digital control.