Our New Machine, Pandora

[sam fisher]

Using the OMAP chip may result in a system which would be around £199. Opinions?

DO IT! DO IT NOW!

$400 is way too much.

How much would the i.mx31 work out at?

Your currency is worthless, get used to it.

 

[fusion_power]

Using the OMAP chip may result in a system which would be around £199. Opinions?

Ugh, sorry, no way. Besides, this sounds like £100 production costs and £99 profit.

I would pay 250€ (EURO) maximum. MABE a little bit more if the Handheld is made out of aluminium but I know it will be cheap plastic so I see no reason what should cost 300€ at such an device (ok we can subtract 30-40€ for cipset costs, the only costs we know, so we would have 260€ for the rest. pretty much...much I think)

 

[sam fisher]

Using the OMAP chip may result in a system which would be around £199. Opinions?

Ugh, sorry, no way. Besides, this sounds like £100 production costs and £99 profit.

I would pay 250€ (EURO) maximum. MABE a little bit more if the Handheld is made out of aluminium but I know it will be cheap plastic so I see no reason what should cost 300€ at such an device (ok we can subtract 30-40€ for cipset costs, the only costs we know, so we would have 260€ for the rest. pretty much...much I think)

The OMAP is likely to cost €50+ for gods sake. Shut up, you know nothing of the subject matter yet you preach it like you have a degree in the subject. Fuck off or back up your estimates with reliable evidence from websites etc.

The OMAP is going to be in a much small batch number than TI would like which will very much ramp up the price.

 

[fusion_power]

The OMAP is likely to cost €50+ for gods sake. Shut up, you know nothing of the subject matter yet you preach it like you have a degree in the subject. Fuck off or back up your estimates with reliable evidence from websites etc.

The OMAP is going to be in a much small batch number than TI would like which will very much ramp up the price.

Tztztz...no reason to spitting out an insult. I just saying my opinion without insulting someone I think this is ok in an democracy. But getting rude isn't the nicest way I think to say your opinion.
Do what you want but I don't shut up of course so you have to live with my opinion.

 

[Squidge]

I'm trying to finish up a Linux port to my i.MX31 hardware this week and then I want to try some OpenGL demos and maybe port a couple emulators. The problem is always TIME. My real life gets in the way of the fun stuff and so we will see if I can get it done.

Let me know when your Linux port is workable will you? I'd like to try my simple benchmarker I wrote for the MMSP2 and MMSP2+

QUOTE

Also try DosBox with some programs that were unthinkable to run under it on the 2X. (like a C&C game)



If dosbox is easy enough to compile, I'll see if I have enough time to do it. Performance reports on the GP2X would be nice, if you can handle that one.

QUOTE

Also, how fast could you port a Linux N64 emulator, for testing? I could link you to some if need be.



Porting a N64 emu is kinda pointless as would still only provide CPU benchmarks (no time to convert all the graphics over to use the 3D chipset), so its better to benchmark stuff that will work on all platforms. (Well, an n64 emu would work on the 2X, but 1 fps isn't a good of benchmarking...)

 

[Exophase]

Maybe what is needed is something like compiling a few of the most power hungry emulators (I'm thinking SNES & Amiga, as those don't have many dependancies) and getting a list of fps for various games on both the MX31 and OMAP at various frequencies. That way we'll have some "real life" figures rather than just clock speeds, architectures and manufacturer "marketing speak" (eg. OMAP may state that there processor can be almost twice as fast as the MX31 at certain tasks, so we test that with code that will typically be run on the device).

After we have our own facts, we consider whether the price change is worth the speed performance difference?

Test gpSP too if you can.. you can just rip out the audio output (doesn't really make a difference in speed), the other stuff shouldn't be SDL dependent. There's benchmarking code that you can use.

Questions about £199 price point:

Does that mean $400 USD, or more like $350, like speculated? Is there any potential for price drops at any point?

I think it can succeed at that price but it definitely has to be very competitive with other high end mobile devices and can't be viewed as simply a gaming/emulation device. Also could use some killer apps to show off the power. Porting a 3D window manager might be nice..

 

[sam fisher]

The OMAP is likely to cost €50+ for gods sake. Shut up, you know nothing of the subject matter yet you preach it like you have a degree in the subject. Fuck off or back up your estimates with reliable evidence from websites etc.

The OMAP is going to be in a much small batch number than TI would like which will very much ramp up the price.

Tztztz...no reason to spitting out an insult. I just saying my opinion without insulting someone I think this is ok in an democracy. But getting rude isn't the nicest way I think to say your opinion.
Do what you want but I don't shut up of course so you have to live with my opinion.

No, you stated your opinion as fact. You just made up arbitrary numbers and put them in your post when you did not mention they are not real numbers!

 

[God Ginrai]

I'm trying to finish up a Linux port to my i.MX31 hardware this week and then I want to try some OpenGL demos and maybe port a couple emulators. The problem is always TIME. My real life gets in the way of the fun stuff and so we will see if I can get it done.

Let me know when your Linux port is workable will you? I'd like to try my simple benchmarker I wrote for the MMSP2 and MMSP2+

QUOTE

Also try DosBox with some programs that were unthinkable to run under it on the 2X. (like a C&C game)



If dosbox is easy enough to compile, I'll see if I have enough time to do it. Performance reports on the GP2X would be nice, if you can handle that one.

QUOTE

Also, how fast could you port a Linux N64 emulator, for testing? I could link you to some if need be.



Porting a N64 emu is kinda pointless as would still only provide CPU benchmarks (no time to convert all the graphics over to use the 3D chipset), so its better to benchmark stuff that will work on all platforms. (Well, an n64 emu would work on the 2X, but 1 fps isn't a good of benchmarking...)


Well, I've never used DosBox on the 2X, because I was told that C&C: Red Alert was a dream on it, but if I can figure out how to work the configs and stuff, I'll try it. But if anyone else is willing to try this as well, GO AHEAD, because you'll probably be done before I will. ^_^;

 

[fusion_power]

The OMAP is likely to cost €50+ for gods sake. Shut up, you know nothing of the subject matter yet you preach it like you have a degree in the subject. Fuck off or back up your estimates with reliable evidence from websites etc.

The OMAP is going to be in a much small batch number than TI would like which will very much ramp up the price.

Tztztz...no reason to spitting out an insult. I just saying my opinion without insulting someone I think this is ok in an democracy. But getting rude isn't the nicest way I think to say your opinion.
Do what you want but I don't shut up of course so you have to live with my opinion.

No, you stated your opinion as fact. You just made up arbitrary numbers and put them in your post when you did not mention they are not real numbers!

I usualy never post any numbers as facts, sorry I forgot the word "MAYBE" before my numbers, sorry again, its not good to write to quick when not that good in english. Maybe my words could really be missunderstood as facts but of course I don't know exact prices and of course everything here is speculation. "OMAP maybe costs 30-40€" sounds better, ok. Now I know it costs 50€+, something learned again.
I think the whole discussion is useless yet because we all know, only a handfull of people REALLY know the true facts so I don't take the "fact" posts to serious, except they come from Squidge, Craigix, ED or "the other guy"

Peace!

EDIT: If someone is able to test "STUNT ISLAND" at the new Chipsets via Dosbox, please do it. Its an amazing (but sadly unknown) 3D flying/Filming/Editing stunt-game with superb old school vector graphics. I really want to know if this game could run full-speed at the new Device. It would take advantage of the Touchscreen and of the handheld controlls of course. More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stunt_Island

 

[Alex.]

Using the OMAP chip may result in a system which would be around £199. Opinions?

Be careful not to alienate the majority of your market (what is your market anyway, gamers and bedroom coders or highend businessmen? ). $400 is a lot of money, weak currency or not. The i.MX31 sounds powerful enough to give a serious boost over the GP2X, and if it means the console would cost $250 tops, a lot more people will buy it, and in turn there will be a lot more free software produced for it.

 

[Tobriand]

Using the OMAP chip may result in a system which would be around £199. Opinions?

Assuming that inclues VAT, that would be perfect as a price point for me...

If it doesn't, then I'd still buy it, but I'd feel like my wallet had been more badly wounded. But I would *really* like to see an OMAP device.

Oh, to those who say we don't need the power - consider this:
Given that the OMAP3430 requires less power per mHz than the i.MX31 (conjecture based on 65nm vs 90nm process), even if we don't need to run it at FULL power as often, the power required for day to day tasks would be ssignifficcanty lower enough to improve battery life quite a bit.

Also, aiming at a higher end market might not be such a bad idea too, as it means the F-200 would have a greatly improved lifespan, presumably.

Anyway, build the best device you can!

 

[quartercast]

From xe.com: 199.00 GBP = 488.573 AUD!!!
Holy shit, that is damn expensive! Even on a full-time job, I would seriously hesitate to splash that much $$$ on a handheld, and I think many others would too (apart from a few hardcore users posting here). Sorry craigix, I just think that is way too expensive for a niche console. I don't know how your business model is set up, but I think by setting the price that high you're shooting yourself in the foot. I know Sony or Apple could 'sit on' a product at high price/low sales for 6-12 months.. but could you?

 

[Orkie]

Porting a 3D window manager might be nice..

If we have 3D drivers, that shouldn't take too long .

 

[sam fisher]

From xe.com: 199.00 GBP = 488.573 AUD!!!
Holy shit, that is damn expensive! Even on a full-time job, I would seriously hesitate to splash that much $$$ on a handheld, and I think many others would too (apart from a few hardcore users posting here). Sorry craigix, I just think that is way too expensive for a niche console. I don't know how your business model is set up, but I think by setting the price that high you're shooting yourself in the foot. I know Sony or Apple could 'sit on' a product at high price/low sales for 6-12 months.. but could you?

Another weak currency

 

[naples39]

Using the OMAP chip may result in a system which would be around £199. Opinions?

I am a video game dork and don't mind spending money to indulge my interests, but $400 is just too much to justify playing some SNES and PSX. I couldn't even bring myself to pay that much for a 360, only getting one when a retailer offered a $100 rebate. $400 brings the device into a whole different bracket of products.

People are making comments that 199 pounds is okay, and americans just need to deal with it, but that is pretty ridiculous logic unless craig wants to almost completely abandon US sales.

I'm not at all surprised that the hardcore of the hardcore want the most power possible at any price, but this price almost surely excludes everyone but that group.

 

[PokeParadox]

It's only marginally more expensive than the PSP was on launch:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4203804.stm

I agree that it's a touch too expensive than I would like but it's still within an expected range, even if it is in the upper bracket...

 

[quartercast]

Another weak currency

Another weak argument :rolleyes:

 

[Squidge]

Be careful not to alienate the majority of your market (what is your market anyway, gamers and bedroom coders or highend businessmen? ). $400 is a lot of money, weak currency or not. The i.MX31 sounds powerful enough to give a serious boost over the GP2X, and if it means the console would cost $250 tops, a lot more people will buy it, and in turn there will be a lot more free software produced for it.

I don't know the exact prices on implementing a MX31 or a OMAP (just guessing from experience of chip purchases for work projects), but I would say that for a target price of $250, you would be looking at a MMSP2+, which I'm sure no one wants, as it's the slowest and most power hungry of the three.

 

[A_SN]

Be careful not to alienate the majority of your market (what is your market anyway, gamers and bedroom coders or highend businessmen? ). $400 is a lot of money, weak currency or not. The i.MX31 sounds powerful enough to give a serious boost over the GP2X, and if it means the console would cost $250 tops, a lot more people will buy it, and in turn there will be a lot more free software produced for it.

I don't know the exact prices on implementing a MX31 or a OMAP (just guessing from experience of chip purchases for work projects), but I would say that for a target price of $250, you would be looking at a MMSP2+, which I'm sure no one wants, as it's the slowest and most power hungry of the three.


I'm sure it would help a lot if we had price estimates for each SoC, cause I think that 290 € is a bit too much, but if with the i.MX31 it's like 270 € then bring the OMAP on.

 

[Orkie]

People are making comments that 199 pounds is okay, and americans just need to deal with it, but that is pretty ridiculous logic unless craig wants to almost completely abandon US sales.

No, people are taking pleasure in Americans actually appreciating for once what things are like over here. I don't see why you should get a better deal just because you live in the US - £199 is a fair price. Of course, it may include VAT, in which case it *will* be less in the US.