Our New Machine, Pandora

[cappuchok]

Also thinking with that design the homebrew crew could make 2 player games where 2 people could play using the controls at either end of the screen. Which would be 'unique' an 'innovative'.

I'd think it might be hard to have two players simultaneously on a handheld for reasons obvious. Two player games tend to require twitch reflexes and most are better played with two separate gamepads or a sturdy arcade controller (no problem with this device of course as it will have USB Host).

I'd rather see multiplayer games on this device use WiFi and Bluetooth (or ad-hoc WiFi if the device will lack the Bluetooth hardware). A system like Kaillera or Zbattle.net would be awesome, but of course a central server shouldn't be required, two (or more) devices should be able to connect directly with one another to form an ad-hoc WLAN and play without Internet connectivity as well.

 

[Samba Pa Ti]

would it be feasable to add some extra chips onboard (like the motorola 68k) if it was possible to squeeze them in and access them thru emulators they wouldnt need to be emulated at all and free up system load, giving full speed genesis/amiga/neo geo (i think its used for sound in the neo geo) could probably do this with a lot of other chips and more complicated systems.

i posted about this before and ofcourse its just a pipedream but im more interested if its possible or not, this would be a decent way to get hard to emulate systems running on a handheld at the expense of battery power, with minimal emulation needed. even having an addon card with the chips on that would probably work (like how starfox has graphics chips and the virtua racing as the polygon crap).

i think it would just need a Frontend to run games if the hardware was onboard and anything that was missing or incompatible could be supplemented by software emulation.

 

[God Ginrai]

Dpad above, analog below, both on left side... Leaves us with no space for buttons on the left side and that messes vertical gaming

From what I've heard, it's supposed to be SNES-pad button style, so there won't be any buttons on the Left except for for Left shoulder.

Personally, considering we are using a touch screen and a large lcd, I think we need some protection. Having an analogue controller means that a clamshell design is out of the window (unless it's an analogue nub which I think is ugly, difficult to use, and patented). How else are we going to protect the display? Please don't say a flap of material like on the Zodiac, as that looked horrid.

BTW, anyone else thought the analogue nub on the psp was a speaker at first?

I thought the Clamshell design was thrown out. Or was it just DaveC's? Also, yes, I totally thought that the nub was a speaker!

 

[Firefox]

would it be feasable to add some extra chips onboard (like the motorola 68k) if it was possible to squeeze them in and access them thru emulators they wouldnt need to be emulated at all and free up system load

The main technical problem would be connecting such a chip to the handheld's memory.

SoCs have the memory controller on the chip and connected internally to the CPU cores, graphics accelerator, etc etc. There's not really an efficient way to plug a 68000 into that.

 

[Turnip]

Dpad above, analog below, both on left side... Leaves us with no space for buttons on the left side and that messes vertical gaming

From what I've heard, it's supposed to be SNES-pad button style, so there won't be any buttons on the Left except for for Left shoulder.


I think it would be unwise to decide on the controls before knowing how powerfull its going to be because we dont even know what systems its going to be emulating until we do. If its going to be powerfull enough to emulate an N64 it needs a stick and if its going to emulate a DS (which would be brilliant) the only way I can see that woking is with the console held vertically which means youd need buttons and a D pad at the same end. We don't want another system held back by poor controls...

 

[X-Code]

This is the slightly updated version ( included keyboard that I personally think should be detachable as in DaveC's design )

 

[craigix]

If using the OMAP is feasible and the documentation is open we will take a serious look at it, however this will certainly push things back to spring 2008.

 

[X-Code]

All I can say is... Great, thanks for listening to the community ... now, if we could only agree on a design.... :lol:

 

[cappuchok]

This is the slightly updated version ( included keyboard that I personally think should be detachable as in DaveC's design )

Me likes, though the LEDs and most importantly the start/select buttons really need to be on the main body of the console if the keyboard is to be detachable...

And to craigix I wish to say: If the documentation for the OMAP isn't open, let's just forget it. If it is open, then you can start looking into the economical feasability, OK? (We all know it's technically feasible and superior to the other choices, but if docs aren't readily available or the cost per chip / required order volume is too high, I guess it's not worth it).

 

[Vince2501]

Really, you won't need 4 extra buttons to emulate N64, although it would make things easier, but 2 extra buttons would certainly help. You could put them either above or below the Dpad like in DaveC's design. Then, the emu could just have profiles for each game, and set the buttons that aren't really used for that specific game to those buttons. (Or if we could add the two buttons next to the standard ABXY in a kind of Genesis/Megadrive button-set, which would make it feel more like the N64, too, with the ABXY being the C's and the extra two buttons being A & B)

But I think we need to get them sold on the OMAP before we start asking for more buttons.

-God Ginrai

Two additional shoulder buttons should be more then enough. I've got a logitech dual action controller with a similar design, and N64 games play perfectly well.

 

[God Ginrai]

Dpad above, analog below, both on left side... Leaves us with no space for buttons on the left side and that messes vertical gaming

From what I've heard, it's supposed to be SNES-pad button style, so there won't be any buttons on the Left except for for Left shoulder.


I think it would be unwise to decide on the controls before knowing how powerfull its going to be because we dont even know what systems its going to be emulating until we do. If its going to be powerfull enough to emulate an N64 it needs a stick and if its going to emulate a DS (which would be brilliant) the only way I can see that woking is with the console held vertically which means youd need buttons and a D pad at the same end. We don't want another system held back by poor controls...


You'd have to ask someone like Squidge or Craigix to be sure about this, but I doubt that DS emulation on the next handheld is possible. (Aside from emulating DS homebrew games)

If using the OMAP is feasible and the documentation is open we will take a serious look at it, however this will certainly push things back to spring 2008.

I'm fine with the wait, I have a DS and my GP2X to keep me busy.

--

And Vince, I would be happy with 2 extra shoulder buttons as well, either 2 extra shoulder buttons or the 6-button Genesis-type method I suggested should be fine, IMHO.

-God Ginrai

 

[declaration]

If you make the system too expensive, you will price out much of the current community and new users.

The geeks on here may want the best specs possible, but you will end up with a tiny community and low sales.

A few pages ago everyone was excited about possibly having the power of the i.mx31, but now everyone thinks thats not enough? I wonder how much this device will cost in 10 pages time....

 

[cappuchok]

If you make the system too expensive, you will price out much of the current community and new users.

The geeks on here may want the best specs possible, but you will end up with a tiny community and low sales.

A few pages ago everyone was excited about possibly having the power of the i.mx31, but now everyone thinks thats not enough? I wonder how much this device will cost in 10 pages time....

craigix has already said they will most likely settle on the i.MX31, and because it is well known, has plentiful documentation and good Linux support, I think most of us here are willing to accept that choice if it means the device will be reasonably priced. Craig's original stated intention though, to release a truly cutting edge device, is sort of mutually exclusive in relation to the intended cost (not much more than the GP2X). Also, while the OMAP3430 is the cutting-edge chip we would all love to see in a handheld gaming device, it is largely an unknown: we don't know how much documentation is available or how available it is, how much the chip will cost and how many must be ordered in a batch (TI has some really steep requirements for minimum order volume, it's been said). For that reason, even if we'd love to see what the OMAP3430 could do for a device like this, most of us would be perfectly happy with the i.MX31 as well (though it would move the device firmly below the cutting edge that we'd like to see).

 

[Orkie]

If you make the system too expensive, you will price out much of the current community and new users.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing, we may well price out a load of idiots in that .

 

[Squidge]

would it be feasable to add some extra chips onboard (like the motorola 68k) if it was possible to squeeze them in and access them thru emulators they wouldnt need to be emulated at all and free up system load, giving full

I don't see how this could be done easily, you don't want it to interfere with the memory of the emulator, so it would need its own dedicated portion which also needs to be accessible by the main processor. You then have the problem of addressing the custom chips at exactly the right speed - synchronisation would be a complete nightmare.

QUOTE

I wonder how much this device will cost in 10 pages time....



In ten pages time, it'll probably be one of these :

http://www.rockdirect.com/viewNotebook.php...REME%20SL%20PRO

 

[Vince2501]

I think the Genesis 6 button approach would work for everything but Playstation games. It may be a little too awkward for those so accustomed to 4 shoulder buttons. People can adjust of course, but if it's possible and not too expensive I'd like to see it done.

As far as pricing goes, and this is coming from someone who is not a techie but knows enough about said equipment as far as running programs and what to buy and what not to buy, etc. The most I'd pay would be about $250 if this system can do pretty much everything (WI FI, GPS, Emulation, video, mp3, etc) aside from taking pictures and making phone calls, which I wouldn't expect a hand held to do in the first place but you know what I mean. I want my entertainment in one device, and all of the essentials in another.

The one thing I would like to see included with the unit would be a cable connecting the unit to a USB port in order to place files on the SD Card (as opposed to getting an SD card reader and setting that up) would be a matter of convenience. Everything else wouldn't be a problem acquiring, and would be preferable to having a video-out cable included.

 

[God Ginrai]

QUOTE

I wonder how much this device will cost in 10 pages time....

In ten pages time, it'll probably be one of these :

http://www.rockdirect.com/viewNotebook.php...REME%20SL%20PRO




That guy on the page looks creepy... o.o

The one thing I would like to see included with the unit would be a cable connecting the unit to a USB port in order to place files on the SD Card (as opposed to getting an SD card reader and setting that up) would be a matter of convenience. Everything else wouldn't be a problem acquiring, and would be preferable to having a video-out cable included.

That cable will probably be a USB cable, and I'm sure that craig will probably implement that sort of function in the device.

 

[fusion_power]

If using the OMAP is feasible and the documentation is open we will take a serious look at it, however this will certainly push things back to spring 2008.

please forget about the OMAP and just use the I.MX31 I think the most people would be happy with that because for example I prefer a more Cheap device and a more ARM architecture Device. And the OMAP for me sounds like much much more power consumption than the other Chipsets.

@N64 emulation: Not good without analog stick. The new Handheld seems to be built without analog Stick. So there is an Problem. Ok, I don't need N64 Emulation but if people searching for an solution of the D-Pad Analog Problem, I have an Idea:
Digital Pad and Analog Controll at the same place, detachable analog-stick, only one of them usable at the same time but we save much space at the device and I think the Handling is much better with booth controlls at the best possible place at the device instead of analog under digital or digital left, Analog right etc...:

Digital Pad and Analog Stick are 2 completely different mechanics, NOT connected (notice free space between them. No idea if this is technicaly possible but we should patend this Idea.

 

[sold]

Personally, I think the OMAP3430 would be a better choice performance wise. I for one would pay more for a device which would deliver excellent performance and have more longevity due to the fact that it didn't compromise its performance and lifespan because of price. You get what you paid for in the end. A difference in price of about $50 more or less should NOT be of concern if the device is going to meet the demands of the customers.

Can't wait to see the end product. The 2x is an excellent device, but from the sounds of things, the craig&co device looks like a winner.

EDIT: lol @ orkie. Nice comment

EDIT 2: @ Fusion power, most people would like a device at a cheaper price, but in that case no one has the right to complain about hardware and design flaws. I personally would like to see Craigix come up with a well designed high quality device that doesn't give anyone reason to complain.

 

[realyst]

Digital Pad and Analog Controll at the same place, detachable analog-stick, only one of them usable at the same time but we save much space at the device and I think the Handling is much better with booth controlls at the best possible place at the device instead of analog under digital or digital left, Analog right etc...:

Digital Pad and Analog Stick are 2 completely different mechanics, NOT connected (notice free space between them. No idea if this is technicaly possible but we should patend this Idea.

Umm, you obviously didn't see my post a while back with the d-ring and central analogue nub

Prior art, baby, and already parts of the community;P

Personally, considering we are using a touch screen and a large lcd, I think we need some protection. Having an analogue controller means that a clamshell design is out of the window (unless it's an analogue nub which I think is ugly, difficult to use, and patented). How else are we going to protect the display? Please don't say a flap of material like on the Zodiac, as that looked horrid.

BTW, anyone else thought the analogue nub on the psp was a speaker at first?

Maybe a partial clamshell. A clear polymer overlay above the screen that can be closed or open, but only on the screen portion. When you need the touchscreen functions, open the thing up.

But, I mean, analogue does not mean clamshell is out the window: just don't make the stick too tall or recess it enough into the body. Worst case, raise the roof of the shell enough to accommodate it.

Or leave a small hole in the shell for the analogue stick to fit in that'd only be wide enough for the top of the stick to become parallel with the top of the shell(restricting it's movement for its protection. Who really cares if the top of the stick gets scuffed any more then one would the shell?)