Our New Machine, Pandora

[realyst]

A good brainstorming on some 'best practices' (such as file locations et al.)would probably be a good idea. The developers would be allowed to develop their app the way they see fit but would have an edge on how to get things to work ultra-smooth-like with the rest. Linux has something of the sort in place anyways(actually....pretty much every OS does. configs go into /var, install Win apps go into Program Files, etc...)

Also, having system calls built in for some menu functionality would help developers who don't want to muck around with UI things. Though they could if they want to(think GTK toolkit-ish-thing).

 

[PokeParadox]

I think it would be a good idea to resurrect interest in GP2XStandards
Tripmonkey hasn't had the time to maintain the site but something could be done for the Craigonator!

I agree that we shouldn't restrict devs, but it's silly not to have a set of guidelines to help with overall user-friendliness.

 

[zaffercharles]

my $0.02
If I want more polished (or 3D) software, I'd forget open-source and stick with the PSP and DS.

If I want an full open-source computer Id buy the EeePC.

Just in case you want everything in one- buy the cr- um, serious, expensive all new portable Amiga equivalent for the 00's

That's what I've been waiting for and I can't be the only one. Lucky for me I'm in the UK but, it's been said before I wish you guys over the pond could be a little more accepting. It's one time where you don't get the sweet deal out of god knows how many tech releases and like Trooper said you don't even know what you'll be getting for the cash yet.

This is meant to be more than just the next GP2X! bigger in scope and quality but designed with and for the community of GP2X users/devs that want more. It seems like a lot of people overlook that. What else is there to say other than if you're happy using many different devices for different purposes, 3d doesn't interest you in the slightest and the price immediately puts you off, this isn't for you? h34r:

 

[coldfish]

Sooo, any news on this thing?

 

[javaJake]

Sooo, any news on this thing?

People who donated are patiently (except for one <_< ) waiting for CraigIX to send out exclusive information to them, and CraigIX has also promised to post pictures and other tid-bits here once they've cleaned up a few things.

 

[fusion_power]

Yes, some standard suggestions for button usage for example would be great. It will help to handle the programms better and faster because nobody reads readme's we know.
Look at all the commercial consoles. There is an controll-standard and it always worked. We all know, that we use the A button on GB(A) to do the action and the B Button to cancel. Start/select are for menu/pause or such things. Even, if you play a game for the first time, you know how to fire or to go into menus. Why should this tactic being wrong at the new Handheld?

I'm for standards...not MUST but COULD Standards of course. I never ever again want to press 2 Shoulder Buttons+Stick+whatever to go into an Menu. :lol: ( luckily with an built in keyboard into the new Machine we have enough other buttons to use )

EDIT: Saturn Emulation? :lol: maybe we should first try to get an small GB(A) Emu running on the new machine, after that Devs can going higher. Nobody knows how hard or easy coding with this new OMAP Chipset will be(AFAIK). Maybe this thing has its own "tics" like the silly ones from the GP2X Chipset (other ones of course)
Maybe3D is easy to code, but 2D is more complex than on the GP2X, maybe vice versa? Who knows. I really hope there are no big barriers into the Chipset where nobody has known about.

 

[coldfish]

Do they have a working prototype, or is it still paper?

From all Ive read, the industrial designers will have their work cut out trying to shoehorn in all the features devs want and still make it an attractive, consumer friendly product. I'm yet to see a handheld with a keyboard that isn't a lesson in compromise.

 

[narmak]

QUOTE
It very well could be $400 with the necessary accessories some will buy. But if you compare the specs and abilities (and the fact it is open-source! that's worth a lot!) with other devices, you'll find the price is reasonable.



What are the specs? Could someone point me to a spec sheet so I can see if what this guy says makes any sense? Thanks. I'd hate to see people defending the price of a system for which they do not know the specs. I'd also hate to see people throwing out price tags for a system of which they have not created, have no actual support for (other than forum rumblings), and can't provide specs for (and by specs I don't mean "it will have 2 analog joysticks, and a 800x600 screen! - will play psx at full speed and maybe n64 too if dev's work hard enough!" seriously all the specs i've read are riddled with "maybes, shoulds, and probably's"). And where is the company web page? I'd like to do some research on the folks trying to sell me a 400 dollar handheld so that i am at least aware that it is an organization with some credibility and not just some guy with an idea (as great as guys with ideas are, they need an organization behind them to provide their customers with real support, unless you are shooting for sub-gph support here) . So far I have been able to find pictures and listings of various electronics components like an LCD and a gpu, but no actual form. So, we are, as of now, investing in a hypothetical system that is the amalgamation of various component parts researched, but not tested with each other, and never arranged together in a working manner. Sorry, but it all just seems very unrealistic to me to think that some guys from an open source handheld board have the prior experience and business savy needed to start something as demanding as this (ie. thousands of customers). That's just my 2 cents.

I must admit though, the specs of the system that I have read from the bluwiki seem well informed (I dig the powervr choice), time will tell if they are actually able to pull this off. And don't get me wrong, I would love for this system to succeed, and will most likely purchase one if it does, i just have some unresolved skepticism about the feasibility of this actually reaching realization.

 

[Eolair]

The complaints in this thread seems to be made mostly out of ignorance (or personal wants). There is no $400 price tag. You don't pay european VAT if you live in the US. Also a lot of things like battery, charger and keyboard will be included so the price is very fair. ...And obviously the Craiginator isn't the real name. It's just something the community came up with and it stuck. The official name will be revealed later. The rest of the complaints all fall in the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" catagory.

 

[Squidge]

Nobody knows how hard or easy coding with this new OMAP Chipset will be(AFAIK). Maybe this thing has its own "tics" like the silly ones from the GP2X Chipset (other ones of course)
Maybe3D is easy to code, but 2D is more complex than on the GP2X, maybe vice versa? Who knows. I really hope there are no big barriers into the Chipset where nobody has known about.

It'll be SDL and OpenGL, so it'll be as easy as coding on the GP2X or PC. No need to talk to the hardware, as the libraries will do that for you (but of course you'll be able to if you really want).

 

[b._.o._.b]

Wasn't there an initiative started with some guidelines for ui and button usage? I remember someone made a site with these dev guidelines for the gp2x and as far as I know no developer used it.

I don't mind the personal touch of developers in programs, It is good to use your intellect sometimes to understand or install a program. We don't have to compile programs, seldom have anything to do with dependencies. Generally it is very easy to install and use programs.

Gnuboy is always the main example for people from the guidelines lobby. It does have an awkward button usage, but really you don' t have to be a genius to figure it out.
People seem to forget the most important part of the program. Gnuboy is one of the best and most complete emulators of the GP2X and imo a fabulous job by K-Teto.

 

[coldfish]

I agree, the details are worryingly vague. But not knowing much about the background of the people involved its hard to say if the product is vaporous or "in development".

At this stage, I'd be more concerned about nailing down its prospective audience, a product of this scope and development expense would want to attract more than a few thousand GP2X users, so "if you don't like it, don't buy it" probably isnt the best advice?

People who play emulators and homebrew (for free) probably arent all that willing to part with -big- bucks on niche market gaming systems? That's a problem with targeting this market the developers will have to confront if they want to make it profitable.

 

[kfuse]

Well to be honest the price is sounding quite reasonable to be honest. the JXD is crippled in comparison to the 2x I dunno why people put any patience into that thing...only thing going for it is fullspeed SNES and thats because all the graphics chips are emulated...

the price is up there for a handheld but this particular one makes sense...no I'm not going to eat peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches (I have more dignity than that) and I don't think that the price is inflated for americans but that in US, people are just cheap lol.

and for all of you begging for specs, websites, all that other jazz...you might as well grab a ticket and sit in line because it will be a while... a wiki already shows you the basic specs, and if you don't like that then too bad, get glad because if you want it that badly the whole lot of you will chill out sit your rears on the backburner and wait like you got some common sense. if you don't want to drop at minimum at least 300 on it that its obvious you don't want it or if you do want it do what you gotta do(not steal,kill or mame of course)

And on a later note the EEE in the US is not $199!!!!! That model is only sold to government contractors, schools, etc....

its 299usd... Asus said it themselves they refuse to sell it in US at 199 dollars, unless somebody happened to come across a site that proposed which I think is nearly impossible.

 

[narmak]

The complaints in this thread seems to be made mostly out of ignorance (or personal wants). There is no $400 price tag. You don't pay european VAT if you live in the US. Also a lot of things like battery, charger and keyboard will be included so the price is very fair. ...And obviously the Craiginator isn't the real name. It's just something the community came up with and it stuck. The official name will be revealed later. The rest of the complaints all fall in the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" catagory.

Thanks for clearing that up, guess I jumped ahead of my research on that one. Sorry for ragging you guys so hard about the name, totally uninformed. I don't mean to add flames to the craiginator-sucks fire, but I really think that regardless of the outcome, community skepticism and pressure is required for a worthy end product. All of you moaning about the moaners, take a second and realize that they are marketing a system to an audience consisting mostly of us. Regardless of your stance on the system, the concerns of the moaners (i happen to think the price tag is worthy of the concern it has received), just as those of the supporters will need to be taken into account if they would like to maximize their reach and earnings, and in turn create a more well supported system, given it's open source nature.

 

[zaffercharles]

What are the specs? Could someone point me to a spec sheet so I can see if what this guy says makes any sense? Thanks. I'd hate to see people defending the price of a system for which they do not know the specs.

You have a point there but it swings both ways I mean, I know I've been defending it without specs but others are knocking it without too. I just enjoy talking and speculating about it, we'll get into more serious talk later and it would have to be seriously crippled for me not to join in on it.

It wasn't supposed to be revealed as soon as it was if I remember correctly, and also due to talk on it it has been upgraded significantly so things have taken a step back regarding progress or released details. Explaining why the specs and info are short on the ground at the moment.
The estimated release is something like may/june/july next year isn't it? it's still a fair way off even if the date doesn't slip any further but they're working on it. Perhaps we shouldn't even be talking about it at all yet positively or negatively, I got the impression that craig would have preferred it that way a few months ago but, there it is. I like the general mood in these forums though, generally people like to debate rather than flame and make things up.

I dunno, I just feel like CraigIX and co. know what theyre getting themselves into, it was born out of the frustrations with GPH so thinking that they'll screw it up- well my guess and that's all it is admittedly is they won't.

 

[fusion_power]

It'll be SDL and OpenGL, so it'll be as easy as coding on the GP2X or PC. No need to talk to the hardware, as the libraries will do that for you (but of course you'll be able to if you really want).

Ok.
But how is it possible this way, to make sure, the program uses all the Hardware-features, the Handheld has? Do SDL and OpenGL knows this all? I mean, when everything is "software guided" how the coders can produce the best hardware-optimized code for the handheld? (to make sure we use fast hardware capabilities instead of pure (slow) software-solutions for example)
Yes... my explanation Sounds stupid somehow, sorry, I'm not a coder. :lol:

 

[A_SN]

No need to talk to the hardware, as the libraries will do that for you (but of course you'll be able to if you really want).

And even then, you'll only have to steal your code from the SDL code ;-)

I remember someone made a site with these dev guidelines for the gp2x and as far as I know no developer used it.

That's why I talked about official guidelines, ones we'd know about as soon as the console would start shipping

But how is it possible this way, to make sure, the program uses all the Hardware-features, the Handheld has? Do SDL and OpenGL knows this all?

Yes, as soon as the necessary code is added to these libraries. That was the work of (mainly) paeryn on the GP2X's SDL, and you can look at the SDL code and you'll find every single hardware optimisation we know of. Hence my mention of stealing code from SDL.

The problem with a lack of documentation for the OMAP 3430 might be to implement all the available optimisations in the first place tho...

 

[craigix]

It's likely to be around $320 in the USA, and we have USA/Canada distributors lined up. The power of this machine really is next gen, (ie beyond the PSP). We are tweaking and pushing things to the limits in terms of battery life, size, controls etc.

It's very likely we wil release some major details/videos at the end of this month or in Dec.

While the device has been code named the craiginator it isn't just me working on it, it is an excellent devoted team of people from the scene.

And finally yes, it is a shame for the americans that their currency is almost worthless, but there is nothing we can do about that. If it was a couple of years ago this system would be around $240 for you.

 

[zaffercharles]

Nice to hear, I'm keeping the faith

 

[Vince2501]

Looking forward to it. If it's about $300, that isn't too bad. Hell, I spend about a grand a year on DVD's alone.

But the big issue is if the system can emulate a system that the PSP cannot (DS, Saturn, Dreamcast, whatever) that and being able to play Quake 3 and perhaps Half Life (plus Counter Strike) would be the thing to get people to invest in it.