Our New Machine, Pandora

[pupnik]

Why do we need a distro at all? Just put a slimline Linux on there with a collection of libraries, and then simlink some directories to normal dirs so installs from Debian/etc work without modification. Obviously not every app will work, but if we make the /dev/* devices similar, a lot will.

I see a choice between:

1) Restrict OS to a simple program launcher for homebrew and emus

2) Go with .deb based OpenEmbedded (or Maemo/ITOS) as an alternative to the simple program launcher

3) Go with 1) and then end up reinventing the wheel for all the OS functionality that users will start clamoring for two months after craigulators release -> dead end.

So the rumors (confirmed?) that it will have OE are a very good thing. It would be a marketing mistake to ignore the inherent capabilities of the device as a universal pocketable computer and restrict it to a console type gaming device.

(edit) And no, just having a minimal arm-deb install on it is not, i repeat - NOT going to sell units to non-hackers who would buy it if they could do things with it besides launching emus. This does not mean putting KDE on the device (please drop that thread). It means including the best of the linux embedded GUI OSes along with the related user apps. [media player, rss reader, browser, chat, video player, notepad, sketchpad, calendar/pim]. That is ADDED VALUE that you can deliver with the product, at almost no development cost.

(edit) happened to search mweston on youtube and found this awesomeness... http://youtube.com/watch?v=QEFcgBpCI1g

 

[A_SN]

This is a boring and pointless talk. It's just some nerd-wank to pass time while tumbleweeds roll all around.

 

[Yrx]

This is a boring and pointless talk. It's just some nerd-wank to pass time while tumbleweeds roll all around.

lol, Yes.

Craigix knows what he's doing, I trust. He won't do anything that will be detrimental to a large chunk of the community.

 

[Turnip]

Will it have a built in taser gun to zap muggers?

 

[pupnik]

This is a boring and pointless talk. It's just some nerd-wank to pass time while tumbleweeds roll all around.

The point is whether it will be a device that will only sell to the hacker/homebrew community, and fail.

Or whether it can serve as 'the only device you need in your pocket', and win.

 

[Turnip]

This is a boring and pointless talk. It's just some nerd-wank to pass time while tumbleweeds roll all around.

The point is whether it will be a device that will only sell to the hacker/homebrew community, and fail.

Or whether it can serve as 'the only device you need in your pocket', and win.


A taser gun, a cigarette lighter and a pen.

 

[A_SN]

This is a boring and pointless talk. It's just some nerd-wank to pass time while tumbleweeds roll all around.

The point is whether it will be a device that will only sell to the hacker/homebrew community, and fail.

Or whether it can serve as 'the only device you need in your pocket', and win.


No, there's no point to make, only time to pass We all know damn well that we'll get a nice firmware à la Open2X. If I started talking about Debian it was just to make a point that it was possible.

 

[Turnip]

This is a boring and pointless talk. It's just some nerd-wank to pass time while tumbleweeds roll all around.

The point is whether it will be a device that will only sell to the hacker/homebrew community, and fail.

Or whether it can serve as 'the only device you need in your pocket', and win.


No, there's no point to make, only time to pass We all know damn well that we'll get a nice firmware à la Open2X. If I started talking about Debian it was just to make a point that it was possible.


The things we should we should be talking about are the taser gun, the cigarette lighter and the pen.

 

[Exophase]

Ah, so only about four times faster than the PS2 CPU? with error for translation from DMIPS to MIPS. Thanks for the information exophase. Sounds confusing. :S

I don't think it's 4x as fast... The GameCube core is around 1000 DMIPS. Therefore, a Cortex-A*@1GHz would be about 2x the speed of the GameCube (in number of instructions processed per second). I doubt that the GameCube is 2x the speed of the PS2 (which it would be if the Craiginator was 2x the speed of the GameCube).


PS2's CPU is only 300MHz, double issue (I doubt it's out of order). A 1GHz Cortex-A8 being in the vicinity of 4x as powerful as that doesn't sound like much of a stretch, although it's probably a little less.

 

[Turnip]

So, what sort of pen does everyone think it should have?

 

[icurafu]

Ah, so only about four times faster than the PS2 CPU? with error for translation from DMIPS to MIPS. Thanks for the information exophase. Sounds confusing. :S

I don't think it's 4x as fast... The GameCube core is around 1000 DMIPS. Therefore, a Cortex-A*@1GHz would be about 2x the speed of the GameCube (in number of instructions processed per second). I doubt that the GameCube is 2x the speed of the PS2 (which it would be if the Craiginator was 2x the speed of the GameCube).


PS2's CPU is only 300MHz, double issue (I doubt it's out of order). A 1GHz Cortex-A8 being in the vicinity of 4x as powerful as that doesn't sound like much of a stretch, although it's probably a little less.


Actually. I read a number of times that the PS2 performed at 500MIPS. But I don't kniw if that is real MIPS or the standard DMIPS.

I've heard before that Gamecube was more powerful than the Playstation2 in terms of CPU performance.

 

[God Ginrai]

This is a boring and pointless talk. It's just some nerd-wank to pass time while tumbleweeds roll all around.

The point is whether it will be a device that will only sell to the hacker/homebrew community, and fail.

Or whether it can serve as 'the only device you need in your pocket', and win.


No, there's no point to make, only time to pass We all know damn well that we'll get a nice firmware à la Open2X. If I started talking about Debian it was just to make a point that it was possible.


And no one answered when I asked this before, but where was it confirmed that the main firmware would be Open2X?

EDIT: icurafu, yes, the GC was more powerful than the PS2.

-God Ginrai

 

[zaffercharles]

So, what sort of pen does everyone think it should have?

I think it would be cool to have an engraver on the other end of the stylus, for etching things in between gaming sessions. But if it had to be a pen, permanent black is good

 

[atomicthumbs]

Will it have a built in taser gun to zap muggers?

That's what you asked when you vandalized the wiki the first time. The answer is still no. Please stop. I asked Nathan, and your block has been extended. Don't try it again, or you might get banned.

So, what sort of pen does everyone think it should have?

SHUT UP

OK, you vandalized the wiki about 7 more times. I've had Nathan block it (and my userpage) from editing by unregistered users. ASSHOLE.

"Proppa vandals" indeed. That's what you said in the PM you gave me.

I think it's time for this guy to get banned from GP32X.

 

[realyst]

Why do we need a distro at all? Just put a slimline Linux on there with a collection of libraries, and then simlink some directories to normal dirs so installs from Debian/etc work without modification. Obviously not every app will work, but if we make the /dev/* devices similar, a lot will.

Thanks to the voice of reason

Leave the base device software simple. Kernel+simple frontend+necessary drivers for base hardware.

All the other stuff can be added by those who wish to "hack" the handheld into something more PCish. If you know about KDE or Gnome, you know how to install the thing.

I'd hate to see the machine with extra bloat and draw because someone wants their PC to have a child

 

[Squidge]

I see a choice between:

1) Restrict OS to a simple program launcher for homebrew and emus

2) Go with .deb based OpenEmbedded (or Maemo/ITOS) as an alternative to the simple program launcher

3) Go with 1) and then end up reinventing the wheel for all the OS functionality that users will start clamoring for two months after craigulators release -> dead end.

I see no problem having both -> Linux with simple program launcher for homebrew. Simple, quick and efficient, short boot times (seconds). One of the options in that menu can be "Desktop" or whatever you want to call it, which will simply load up extra progs and boot into X-Windows for more pc'ish stuff. It could even be a saved configuration option, just in case you only want to use X-Windows and not interested in emu's/etc.

Personally, I think we should go with "1" for the initial release, and then afterwards implement "both" when we have more time.

 

[sehs33]

Marketing wise, I believe if we had an official branch of a great distro. like Ubuntu to be our OS, the device will have a much greater audience than it has now/it is expected to have.

 

[Squidge]

Why do you think that? Regardless of whats used, a Linux app is a Linux app.

<picky> Ubuntu isn't an OS, its a distribution </picky>

 

[OMars]

Why do you think that? Regardless of whats used, a Linux app is a Linux app.

<picky> Ubuntu isn't an OS, its a distribution </picky>

<close enough>It's distribution of an OS.</close enough>

I'm not sure why, but what he said makes sense, although what you say is true as well. For example, the gp2x is 'portable linux device' - now that didn't attract very many "normal" people to get this thing. But when you talk about something more of a 'small UMPC that runs on Ubuntu linux' it is far more attractive. It is kind of deceptive if you think about it, but it really isn't, either. It will have mobile office applications along with a web browser at some point. It has a full keyboard as well as a touchscreen, so it doesn't really seem like fully game-based system to people. They have other uses for it.

I got your back sehs33!

 

[Tobriand]

Basically, it'd help in marketing because Ubuntu is a popular brand at the moment. If you're a PC-maker selling non-Windows PCs, Ubuntu is the flavour of Linux that's used - and presumably, one can infer from that that it's good at selling computers.

If it's good at selling computers, then more people know about it.

If more people know about it, then less people would be scared of a device running on it being overly techie. Ergo the device might appeal to a different cross-section of users that it wouldn't have beforehand.

That said, I'd still go with Squidge's suggestion - slimline launcher with full loading of X + window managers as an option.