Our New Machine, Pandora

[OMars]

Recompiling is always necessary when porting something to a brand new system. I guarantee you that it won't work right out of the box.

Yes it will, if the console runs Debian ARM, for example. You and your certainities..

QUOTE
Even if it does run, it's going to suck in one way or another. It could be the fact that you can't control anything, because the programmer didn't plan on having it use this console's button configuration, or it could be that the specifications on this system are not compatible in some way.



Oh God, why do I have to read such inepsies. It will have a touchscreen, which makes up for the mouse, a keyboard, and it'll run on X. Kind of like, mmmh let me think... your average PC under Ubuntu?

Any more inepsies to add?

How can you be so certain that this will run ubuntu or debian ARM? Are you helping in the creation of this device? Probably not, which makes you just as unsuspecting as I. I really doubt they will use a current linux distro as an OS for this system. I would love if that happens, but there is just no real evidence of Craigix saying that they will use one. Think about it, a good version of ubuntu takes around 2-4GB of space. So, unless this console has 4GB of memory built-in, I don't see that happening. There is, however, the possibility of using XBUNTU. But that would still need around 2GB of space. There is no easy way of installing these OS's. Where did you hear that this is going to be fully compatible with a current distro?

 

[Eclipse]

My point holds when you estimate the release dates of both systems. The XGP came out about 4 months after the GP2X, which made the GP2X the natural successor to the GP32 (I guess). And I think it's completely safe to say that the F800 will be released much later than 4 months after the Craiginator. Also, it will clearly be an inferior system to the Craiginator, just as the XGP was inferior to the GP2X.

It sounds good.
I think i'll start doing homebrews on f200 and then migrate over craiginator if it will offer some of the emus of my dreams fullspeed.
Is buying a f200 really the best thing to help craiginator born like zoddtd said on his blog?

 

[Goity]

Here's what I'm trying to say. the Craiginator is to the GP2X what the GP2X was to the GP32, while the F800 will be to the Craiginator what the XGP was to the GP2X.

My point holds when you estimate the release dates of both systems. The XGP came out about 4 months after the GP2X, which made the GP2X the natural successor to the GP32 (I guess). And I think it's completely safe to say that the F800 will be released much later than 4 months after the Craiginator. Also, it will clearly be an inferior system to the Craiginator, just as the XGP was inferior to the GP2X.



XGP did what?

 

[OMars]

Here's what I'm trying to say. the Craiginator is to the GP2X what the GP2X was to the GP32, while the F800 will be to the Craiginator what the XGP was to the GP2X.

My point holds when you estimate the release dates of both systems. The XGP came out about 4 months after the GP2X, which made the GP2X the natural successor to the GP32 (I guess). And I think it's completely safe to say that the F800 will be released much later than 4 months after the Craiginator. Also, it will clearly be an inferior system to the Craiginator, just as the XGP was inferior to the GP2X.

What? The XGP never came out, as far as I remember. And it was more advanced than the gp2x. It had the same amount of RAM, wifi, a rechargeable battery, a larger screen, and it used the VRender3D SoC. Where the hell were you when this all happened?

 

[A_SN]

How can you be so certain that this will run ubuntu or debian ARM?

Seriously, did you eat a retard for breakfast?

Look at what the fuck you quoted me saying : "Yes it will, if the console runs Debian ARM, for example."

Besides, a minimal installation of Debian takes far less than 2 GB, mostly if you don't have GNOME installed. Did you even know that you can install a Debian without X or anything and then add anything you want on top of it?

Besides, I never ever suggested it would run Ubuntu, maybe you should learn how to process what you read.

 

[Eclipse]

What? The XGP never came out, as far as I remember. And it was more advanced than the gp2x. It had the same amount of RAM, wifi, a rechargeable battery, a larger screen, and it used the VRender3D SoC. Where the hell were you when this all happened?

yeah, and lol, i remember there was a website that sold shoes at www.gamepark.com for months after the XGP failure.

Is Craigix going to sell Adidas in the near future? h34r:

Btw an unknow handheld that costs much more a PSP isn't a smart choice to make and homebrew community grows IMHO.

Who remembers Gizmondo? :unsure:

all that story makes me feel uncomphortable seeing the future of our scene... i wish i'm not something like Cassandra h34r:

 

[Exophase]

Also, ARM9 is known to be about 1:1 ratio between Hz and IPS.

It's actually 1:1.1, or 1.1MIPS/MHz.

1.1 instruction per clock? Where in the world do you get something like this? One instruction per clock MAXIMUM, in the real world the average is going to be quite a bit less than this (there are LOAD-READ stalls, branch stalls, execution stalls for instructions like multiply, etc)

Cortex is the first superscalar ARM processor.

 

[OMars]

How can you be so certain that this will run ubuntu or debian ARM?

Seriously, did you eat a retard for breakfast?

Look at what the fuck you quoted me saying : "Yes it will, if the console runs Debian ARM, for example."

Besides, a minimal installation of Debian takes far less than 2 GB, mostly if you don't have GNOME installed. Did you even know that you can install a Debian without X or anything and then add anything you want on top of it?

Besides, I never ever suggested it would run Ubuntu, maybe you should learn how to process what you read.

OK, so that's if it runs Debian, then it will run everything perfectly, right? Hell no. This whole thing started when you said (not in these exact words) that you can pretty much take the console out of the box, throw VNC on a memory card and stream videos to it.
QUOTE
On the GP2X, you're glad to play Quake 1 and games from the early 90's. On the Craiginator, you'll watch YouTube, chat on MSN and play Quake 3 online and VNC to your home computer so you can choose the music while you're busy sitting on the toilet seat. Oh, did I mention streaming the latest episode of Prison Break from your home computer using VLC? Yeah, that too, even on the toilet seat!

You seemed to brag about what only turns out to be one possibility about this console's firmware. You have no idea what the firmware will be like. The console isn't even fully developed, how can you be so sure it will be that easy? And you stated that this hardware is completely compatible with anything ported to it from something with a mouse and keyboard.
QUOTE
Oh God, why do I have to read such inepsies. It will have a touchscreen, which makes up for the mouse, a keyboard, and it'll run on X. Kind of like, mmmh let me think... your average PC under Ubuntu?

Do you honestly think it is that easy? There will surely be something incompatible with other linux systems, that's all I'm saying. Unless it runs on a current distro, everything won't be as a simple as dragging and dropping the program you want on a memory card and running it. Do you honestly think that they will put a GB+ on this console built-in? Even advanced PDA's and smartphones usually have a limit of 256MB.

Go ahead, continue this argument...

 

[Firefox]

1.1 instruction per clock? Where in the world do you get something like this? One instruction per clock MAXIMUM, in the real world the average is going to be quite a bit less than this (there are LOAD-READ stalls, branch stalls, execution stalls for instructions like multiply, etc)

Yes, that's the maximum it will do in a "straight line".

Cortex is the first superscalar ARM processor.

The ARM9 isn't superscalar. It has a 64-bit memory interface, and so can fetch two instructions per clock.

(edit) It says in my copy of Furber that it's implemented as a 32-bit interface, but the second instruction gets delivered by the memory system half a clock after the first (so on the falling edge of the clock, I suppose).

 

[Orkie]

blah blah blah

Shut up before you make yourself look more foolish (you've done quite a good job already). You clearly have no idea what you're on about. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the system ended up using some kind of Debian-derived system (and even if it doesn't as standard I'll likely get it running sometime). Even if it doesn't run Debian, did you know that Open2x as it is will run nearly every Debian-ARM binary as-is?

 

[OMars]

blah blah blah

Shut up before you make yourself look more foolish (you've done quite a good job already). You clearly have no idea what you're on about. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the system ended up using some kind of Debian-derived system (and even if it doesn't as standard I'll likely get it running sometime). Even if it doesn't run Debian, did you know that Open2x as it is will run nearly every Debian-ARM binary as-is?

I think will stop after this post, assuming this argument gets finished. Even if it runs Debian or a version of linux that is useful, which might not happen, there is still a chance that a simple port will not be enough to make it run. It might be the software or hardware. Do you understand what I'm saying? THERE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE OF INCOMPATIBILITY IN SOME WAY.

 

[Vimacs]

in fact its easy to run debian arm bins even on the official fw if you copy tons of libs over as well, in fact ive done so before.
btw zaurus bins also run well on the 2x using qtopia, the screen res is a bit to low often thou.
Porting dpkg/apt to the new machine would also be quite simple, even if it doesn't run Debian (it has also been done for gp2x btw), and having apt and wifi would just be awsome

The beauty of linux is that its very compatible, the only real difference (that has any effect on compatibility) of the distros is different lib versions or different places where the config gets stored, both can easily be resolved...

 

[Orkie]

I think will stop after this post, assuming this argument gets finished. Even if it runs Debian or a version of linux that is useful, which might not happen, there is still a chance that a simple port will not be enough to make it run. It might be the software or hardware. Do you understand what I'm saying? THERE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE OF INCOMPATIBILITY IN SOME WAY.

YOU ARE WRONG!

Do you understand what I'm saying?

 

[OMars]

Fine then. Thank you, Vimacs.



<_<

 

[Exophase]

1.1 instruction per clock? Where in the world do you get something like this? One instruction per clock MAXIMUM, in the real world the average is going to be quite a bit less than this (there are LOAD-READ stalls, branch stalls, execution stalls for instructions like multiply, etc)

Yes, that's the maximum it will do in a "straight line".

Cortex is the first superscalar ARM processor.

The ARM9 isn't superscalar. It has a 64-bit memory interface, and so can fetch two instructions per clock.

(edit) It says in my copy of Furber that it's implemented as a 32-bit interface, but the second instruction gets delivered by the memory system half a clock after the first (so on the falling edge of the clock, I suppose).

I'm just not seeing it. How will fetching multiple instructions at a time increase throughput when the execute stage of the pipeline will always take one cycle to complete? N instructions = N cycles spent in the execution unit.

 

[Eclipse]

I'm gonna think that we all are just taking this cnator thing too serious, i think it will appear luckly in a year and will cost almost like a ps3.
Also will it be homemade in a garage or will craig have an partnership\investor that would build containers full of 'nators, keyboards, adapters, boxes, user manuals etc and spead this product worldwide?

i think we must talk less about nerd thingies like firmwares or clocks or how many atoms will have the cpu and look at this story from a bigger point of view...
Am I wrong?

to not flame, I know ZERO about that craiginator development process and I'll really glad to wrong and to have some explanation about that from an affidable source

 

[A_SN]

What? The XGP never came out

Wait, wtf, I assumed it did and failed due to being lousy. I never really paid attention I guess

OK, so that's if it runs Debian, then it will run everything perfectly, right? Hell no. This whole thing started when you said (not in these exact words) that you can pretty much take the console out of the box, throw VNC on a memory card and stream videos to it.

No, that's not if it runs Debian, that was just one possibility among others, even if it's not Debian it's likely to be compatible, which means you can just "take the console out of the box, throw VNC on a memory card and stream videos to it."

But since you obviously need a reality check, here's what others said about it on this very topic in #gp2xdev :

QUOTE
[18:14:27] <Orkie> ban OMars!
[18:14:31] <Orkie> he's an idiot!
[18:14:44] <Orkie> he reckons that if a system runs debian arm, you can't use debian arm binaries with it
[18:16:03] <vimacs_> i used debian arm bins with the 2x
[18:17:16] <Orkie> vimacs_: same
[18:17:25] <Orkie> vimacs_: and compatibility should be near perfect on open2x
[18:17:32] <vimacs_> jep
[18:17:55] <vimacs_> and if we get apt/dpkg running on the new one... *dreams*
[18:19:20] <Orkie> no need to get it running if it runs debian
[18:22:50] <vimacs_> Orkie, point is that even if it wont it would eb qite straight forward
[18:22:55] <vimacs_> *be quite
[18:23:08] <Orkie> yes
[18:23:22] <Orkie> you could use the debian arm apt binaries



There, now shut up, n00b

QUOTE
Do you honestly think it is that easy?

Yup.


QUOTE
Go ahead, continue this argument...

It's over. I win, you lose, period.

 

[Goity]

Sorry, but do people really think that Craig would be making these at home in a garage? It's obvious he will use a manufacturer for this. £199 at launch is hardly the same as £425 at launch, and even with the price drop to £299.99 the difference is still huge.
The project has been in development for a long time, and Craig has a lo of experience in this field and has clearly got on board a decent team to see this project through.



Also, if this console ran a normal distro of Linux it would have no hope in hell of selling. Standard Linux editions have no user friendliness whatsoever, and turn simple tasks such as setting up wifi into a ridiculous chore.

 

[A_SN]

I'm gonna think that we all are just taking this cnator thing too serious, i think it will appear luckly in a year and will cost almost like a ps3.
Also will it be homemade in a garage or will craig have an partnership\investor that would build containers full of 'nators, keyboards, adapters, boxes, user manuals etc and spead this product worldwide?

Actually I've just talked about this with ED and he told me that Craig was actually employing illegal chinese immigrants paid 10 pence an hour, 16 hours a day, in a former pig farm he turned into a sort of factory. Also it seems that the deal with TI didn't go that well and that he underestimated the costs of the case, so that the Craiginator will actually cost around $700.

Anyways, are you aware of that fact that you won't have keyboards separate from consoles but that the keyboards will be non-removable parts of the console?

QUOTE
i think we must talk less about nerd thingies like firmwares or clocks or how many atoms will have the cpu and look at this story from a bigger point of view...
Am I wrong?


No, you're right, I think we should rather talk about the geopolitical implications the release of the console will have on third world countries' economy.

Also, if this console ran a normal distro of Linux it would have no hope in hell of selling. Standard Linux editions have no user friendliness whatsoever, and turn simple tasks such as setting up wifi into a ridiculous chore.

I'm sure it will come with everything it needs as a gaming console. Won't prevent it from being based on Debian tho

 

[Hyperpc]

On this machine will the buttons be called the same thing Like on the :gp2x A,Y,X,B so playing games like windandwater will be easy?