Openpandora2, what we know so far.

[Scntrblob]

@ED: ...and the majority of community stands behind you and your visions. A pandora without you is a pandora I would very probably not order, never ever preorder.


- Craig wants microSD, we want fullSD.


- Craig wants fullHD, we want a reasonable resolution.


- Craig wants Android, we want linux in the first line.


- Craig wants the maximum power, at the maximum costs, we want reasonable power at a reasonable pricepoint


- We want open communication, not lots of words and vague promises and silence over things going wrong


- We want p2 to be a communityproject, not a force-through what craig sees as "the future"


- We want notaz


- We want a projectleader that is involved in the OS, encourages devs (coding competitions vs "community developed repo? never going to be official standart!"), keeps calm and listens to arguments.


("we" being what I personally think of the community)


But you are completly right, P1 is what matters now.

 

[McLovin]

i prefer linux anytime, but better android-support would indeed be ace.


how about: resistive touchscreen for linux, capacitive backplate for gestures...

 

[EvilDragon]

i prefer linux anytime, but better android-support would indeed be ace.

I agree, that would be nice as well.


But a touchscreen that can't really be used with Linux would not be helpful here.

how about: resistive touchscreen for linux, capacitive backplate for gestures...

Oh, Android doesn't need capacitive touchscreens.


Android requires Multitouch, which also exists with resistive touchscreens.


Resistive touchscreens are more accurate and can have pressure values (like the Pandora one has).


Capacitive touchscreens are more inaccurate but react even on the slightest touch with your finger. And it doesn't react to cloth, etc., which makes it perfect for phones where the screen is exposed.


With our clamshell design, a good resistive touchscreen will be the better choice.

 

[fusion_power]

@ED: ...and the majority of community stands behind you and your visions. A pandora without you is a pandora I would very probably not order, never ever preorder.


- Craig wants microSD, we want fullSD.


- Craig wants fullHD, we want a reasonable resolution.


- Craig wants Android, we want linux in the first line.


- Craig wants the maximum power, at the maximum costs, we want reasonable power at a reasonable pricepoint


- We want open communication, not lots of words and vague promises and silence over things going wrong


- We want p2 to be a communityproject, not a force-through what craig sees as "the future"


- We want notaz


- We want a projectleader that is involved in the OS, encourages devs (coding competitions vs "community developed repo? never going to be official standart!"), keeps calm and listens to arguments.


("we" being what I personally think of the community)

Nice summary, I agree.

 

[apersonthinks]

i prefer linux anytime, but better android-support would indeed be ace.

I agree, that would be nice as well.


But a touchscreen that can't really be used with Linux would not be helpful here.

how about: resistive touchscreen for linux, capacitive backplate for gestures...

Oh, Android doesn't need capacitive touchscreens.


Android requires Multitouch, which also exists with resistive touchscreens.


Resistive touchscreens are more accurate and can have pressure values (like the Pandora one has).


Capacitive touchscreens are more inaccurate but react even on the slightest touch with your finger. And it doesn't react to cloth, etc., which makes it perfect for phones where the screen is exposed.


With our clamshell design, a good resistive touchscreen will be the better choice.

I would prefer that the next pandora have a resistive touchscreen that is more like the DS's as the DS's touchscreen doesn't require as much pressure to react and is still accurate.

 

[Skitz]

i prefer linux anytime, but better android-support would indeed be ace.

I agree, that would be nice as well.


But a touchscreen that can't really be used with Linux would not be helpful here.

how about: resistive touchscreen for linux, capacitive backplate for gestures...

Oh, Android doesn't need capacitive touchscreens.


Android requires Multitouch, which also exists with resistive touchscreens.


Resistive touchscreens are more accurate and can have pressure values (like the Pandora one has).


Capacitive touchscreens are more inaccurate but react even on the slightest touch with your finger. And it doesn't react to cloth, etc., which makes it perfect for phones where the screen is exposed.


With our clamshell design, a good resistive touchscreen will be the better choice.

True. Maybe you can get a more sensitive resistive touchscreen though? Sometimes it doesn't register every small push.

 

[Abanest]

Ed: If you build, we will come.


(In both meanings of the word. )

 

[EvilDragon]

True. Maybe you can get a more sensitive resistive touchscreen though? Sometimes it doesn't register every small push.

The one on the first units was awesome, the current ones we have require to use a stylus (that was an unannounced change by the manufacturer).


The next ones we get should be more finger friendly once again.

 

[Solstar]

Ed,since yours and Craig idea could co-exhist together peacefully...why not just join forces,but working separately?what i mean is:i'd like to have both Linux(for flexibility)and android(to run more powerful emu..Dreamcast anyone?),so you two can work on the things that are needed in both methods,but developing your own system for it.when its completed,you just join the two os in the new pandora.keep in mind i still don't have one,so i'm talking based on my expreience on android devices only

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, that was the plan from the very beginning - that we have a good-working Linux as well as Android for the system.


The issue is:


Craig seems to be pretty much fixed on a FullHD screen. Who knows if a FullHD screen with resistive multitouch (for Android) touchscreen is even available for a good price?


It might be easier getting a 720p screen with resistive multitouch, but my guess is Craig would take a FullHD capacitive one (only he can confirm this though).


If that is the case, a good working Linux port wouldn't help, as the hardware isn't suited for that.


I'm fine working with Craig on a possible Pandora 2 if it has a fullsized USB Port, preferably at least one full sized SD Slot and a good-working resistive touchscreen.


But if the hardware he wants to use is not usable for Linux, then I would let him work on it and silently leave, as I'm not interested in just another Android device.


Of course, we could also do a joint-venture and create one Linux-optimized and one Android-optimized version of the Pandora. There would probably be a lot of parts we could share (i.e. battery, buttons, etc.) and many areas we could work together on as well.


That's something time will tell.


I'm open for everything and I love to work with different guys on various projects, but I will only work on devices I have a good use for


(and my Android tablet hasn't even been switched on for the last four weeks...)

 

[Solstar]

Well, that was the plan from the very beginning - that we have a good-working Linux as well as Android for the system.


The issue is:


Craig seems to be pretty much fixed on a FullHD screen. Who knows if a FullHD screen with resistive multitouch (for Android) touchscreen is even available for a good price?


It might be easier getting a 720p screen with resistive multitouch, but my guess is Craig would take a FullHD capacitive one (only he can confirm this though).


If that is the case, a good working Linux port wouldn't help, as the hardware isn't suited for that.


I'm fine working with Craig on a possible Pandora 2 if it has a fullsized USB Port, preferably at least one full sized SD Slot and a good-working resistive touchscreen.


But if the hardware he wants to use is not usable for Linux, then I would let him work on it and silently leave, as I'm not interested in just another Android device.


Of course, we could also do a joint-venture and create one Linux-optimized and one Android-optimized version of the Pandora. There would probably be a lot of parts we could share (i.e. battery, buttons, etc.) and many areas we could work together on as well.


That's something time will tell.


I'm open for everything and I love to work with different guys on various projects, but I will only work on devices I have a good use for


(and my Android tablet hasn't even been switched on for the last four weeks...)

i see your point,there are already too many android devices on the market too similar beweteen each other.But,while i wouldn't be interested in having a fullhd screen,i would like to have a more powerful handheld,to run possibly win 95 or xp on it,(with qemu or similar)and more resource-hogs emu like the aforementioned dreamcast and the like...


so,Ed,Which could be the maximum processing power that a handeld Linux can support?

 

[SNESFAN]

I like the android and Linux coexistence as primary os choices, could care less about capacitive or resistive as a screen as long as it is clamshell.


Someone high up on the production of these needs to push for android as mandatory because of what happened with the first pandora. 3+ years before we saw a unofficial android build, and the one we got is chrooted on top of angstrom and not flash able or default boot able. It is also not being improved or maintained. (I love it and appreciate notaz's work, don't get me wrong)


If someone isn't focusing on it, it will be the same situation again. Most active forum patrons are pro Linux primary, everything else secondary or back burner. There are not enough android developers to go around on the Pandora but there is a an adequate amount of Linux devs.


Craig (even if by himself) shooting for it, guarantees me there will be offical support of android. ED if he decides to be apart of P2 tells me Linux will have official support.


That's what I'm hoping to see if and when this gets announced , both standing tall, both holding possibly different flags (maybe it will be both flags) but each seems to have a different focus but is interested in both. I find that to be the perfect solution.

 

[Solstar]

I like the android and Linux coexistence as primary os choices, could care less about capacitive or resistive as a screen as long as it is clamshell.

my thought exactly

 

[milkshake]

@EvilDragon you do not need a resistive touchscreen for an accurate touchscreen. There are special stylus that give you the same accuracy as a resistive solution.


If you are worried about getting pressure information the new stylus types have been designed in a way that uses the nib pressure to represent pressure (as nib would be rubbery the nib would get fatter as you push down on the screen.


This means if someone wanted to art with a capacitive touchscreen it is just as doable as with resistive.


Look at the Samsung galaxy note as an example of how it can do pressure using the stylus.


If its more a cost based solution then that's fine but if its what the touchscreen type can do/not do then capacitive in my opinion is the victor.

 

[EvilDragon]

i see your point,there are already too many android devices on the market too similar beweteen each other.But,while i wouldn't be interested in having a fullhd screen,i would like to have a more powerful handheld,to run possibly win 95 or xp on it,(with qemu or similar)and more resource-hogs emu like the aforementioned dreamcast and the like...


so,Ed,Which could be the maximum processing power that a handeld Linux can support?

Same as for Android...?


The SoC has nothing to do with Linux or Android. Both are based on the same kernel nowadays, both can handle multiprocessing these days.


Android has some weird Java stuff and tons of services running, so you would probably have more CPU time left using Linux, but I'm not sure if that even makes a difference with those fast SoCs these days

I like the android and Linux coexistence as primary os choices, could care less about capacitive or resistive as a screen as long as it is clamshell.

Then you're probably interested in Android only, as a capacitive touchscreen is not really usable with Linux unless you make all buttons as huge as with Android... but that would defeat the purpose of a Mini desktop PC.


I'd be very happy to have a very advanced and good working Android on the device, that would be great.


But if it only has Android on it and a Linux that is crippled because the touchscreen is inaccurate or anything like that, I'm simply not interested.

 

[Scntrblob]

Craig (even if by himself) shooting for it, guarantees me there will be offical support of android.

rofl

 

[milkshake]

Then you're probably interested in Android only, as a capacitive touchscreen is not really usable with Linux unless you make all buttons as huge as with Android... but that would defeat the purpose of a Mini desktop PC.


I'd be very happy to have a very advanced and good working Android on the device, that would be great.


But if it only has Android on it and a Linux that is crippled because the touchscreen is inaccurate or anything like that, I'm simply not interested.

did you read my post about touch screen tech? a linux device shouldn't be crippled if a capacitive screen is used so long as the right stylus tech is used.

 

[EvilDragon]

Look at the Samsung galaxy note as an example of how it can do pressure using the stylus.


If its more a cost based solution then that's fine but if its what the touchscreen type can do/not do then capacitive in my opinion is the victor.

As far as I know the Samsung Galaxy Note stylus uses a Wacom Digitizer, so it's not using the capacitive screen.


The pen also only works on other devices using the digitizer, it does not work on any other devices, as far as I know.


I would be very happy to be wrong here, as it would probably be way more easy to get capacitive screens, but that's what I know about them (and all the capacitive screens I tried were inaccurate).

 

[SNESFAN]

@ed I'm not interested in android only. I like the current Pandora as is really. I just see room for improvement. With capacitive compatible stylus I don't think the fork in the road is that important.


But regardless, the screen tech doesn't matter to me, it matters to some sure, but both OS's can use both technologies, its just the default GUI is optimized for the different techs.


My point is, I don't care how the interface is presented, its the software its running is what is important. And there are absolutes in what each os has available to it. And that isn't going to change. That's why we need both.


If you are 100% insistent on resistive, just make sure its multi-touch resistive or some android software (not even the majority) will be crippled. That way we can all be happy. But it shouldn't matter either way IMO.


EDIT: fixed formatting


EDIT2

Craig (even if by himself) shooting for it, guarantees me there will be offical support of android.

rofl

it's funny... but I don't see ~?8000 pandora owners come to these forums to vote for which OS they prefer, only seen about 200 or so (I think) present their opinion on these matters, and of those, even less are vocal enough to post a comment about their preference. And since it's not popular among the majority of active posters, I think even less would vocalize their opinion about it. It does seem like he's standing alone against an army of naysayers, but he's not as alone as it appears... I promise.

 

[EvilDragon]

Okay, read some more about Capacitive / Resistive touchscreens.


It seems quite a lot has changed within the last 1 year.


Articles from 2010 / 2011 all mention that capacitive touchscreens are very inaccurate while articles from 2012 mention that the new high-end screens are a lot more accurate than before.


So I stand corrected (I'm actually happy about that )


There is a patent from HTC (a special magnetic stylus) that works on all capacitive touchscreens. No idea how much HTC wants if you want to include such a stylus with your product.


The normal stylus for capacitive screens is as thick as the rubber side of a pencil, so not usable.


Many capacitive touchscreens still seem to be inaccurate (the Nexus 7 is terrible), so we really need to test multiple capacitive screens if we want to find a good one it seems.