Openpandora2, what we know so far.

[EssoAir]

Well I would be interested in the possibility of it having a 3G radio as an add on. (lthough it does have a USB port so I could always just get a USB SIM card dongle). Just an idea.


Also, I think they best way to approach the device is to make. master list of all features wanted, then research the price for each, then make a google docs form that ads it all up. So, example, of the 500 things on the list, if I pick all 500 then it will tell me how much that would cost. (I'm doing a horrible joh of explaining this) but basically, it will allow us to have a visual representation of the desired features and the cost/benefit ratio attached to each individual part.


I'd be willing to set this up if someone else would make the list of the possible features and the estimated cost of each (high estimations preferably).


Any volunteers?

 

[vcoleiro1]

You can get GPS dongle for under $20, imagine a chip is going to be less. Also there is this old story I found off the bat for the $5 quote http://www.gpsbusine...er-5_a102.html.

If they were $5 for a device like Pandora then dongles would cost under $10, probably under $7. They are very aggressively priced. Just look at USB flash drives, they cost scantly more than the best prices for the NAND inside them. Incidentally, the $17 figure fits in fine with a < $20 dongle price.


But remember, we're talking low volume prices for a part that doesn't traditionally appear in low volume products. So it doesn't really matter what tier 1 cell manufacturers can get it for.

I can understand that some dont need a GPS, ok , take it off, some dont want motion sensors, ok take it off, some dont want XXX, ok take it off. See the problem? Lets go for all it can be, then cost it all up and make those cost decisions when we do know costs . That would be better would it not.

Instead of making some general comment about accepting everything or throwing out everything you should balance cost against percentage of people who want the feature on every single cost sensitive decision you make. Not just look at cost vs gut feeling.

As for GPS, location based apps are the rage on Android, and the number that utilise GPS is growing. So yes it would be a deal breaker for me.

Yeah, and some other person is going to come around and say it's a deal breaker for them if it doesn't have a phone. These case by case sentiments mean nothing.


Since the device is probably not going to have some kind of fancy flip clamshell (based on many things Craig has said) it's going to be a dealbreaker for you anyway.

Who knows who wants GPS (could actually be most people want it), lets not exclude it because 2 people said no and 2 yes . As I said, lets cost it all up in the end then decide. Saying yeah or nah on a feature with no idea of who wants it and how much it really costs is meaningless .


There is a danger basing things on polls of course. So they need to be looked at objectively to. Example, 60% don't want feature A, so its omitted, 60% don't want feature B so its omitted and so forth. After a while you have excluded the key features of just about everyone. Basically I'm pointing out the problem with doing things by Poll , its better to do things by objective , which is why I was mentioning the fully support Android apps with the HW - that would be an objective.


Here's the link again on the $5 TI GPS chip, hope it works this time


http://www.gpsbusine...der-5_a102.html


This is all just spitting in the wind anyway, as far as a P2 goes, its a long shot at best.

 

[hedwards]

You can get GPS dongle for under $20, imagine a chip is going to be less. Also there is this old story I found off the bat for the $5 quote http://www.gpsbusine...er-5_a102.html.

If they were $5 for a device like Pandora then dongles would cost under $10, probably under $7. They are very aggressively priced. Just look at USB flash drives, they cost scantly more than the best prices for the NAND inside them. Incidentally, the $17 figure fits in fine with a < $20 dongle price.


But remember, we're talking low volume prices for a part that doesn't traditionally appear in low volume products. So it doesn't really matter what tier 1 cell manufacturers can get it for.

I can understand that some dont need a GPS, ok , take it off, some dont want motion sensors, ok take it off, some dont want XXX, ok take it off. See the problem? Lets go for all it can be, then cost it all up and make those cost decisions when we do know costs . That would be better would it not.

Instead of making some general comment about accepting everything or throwing out everything you should balance cost against percentage of people who want the feature on every single cost sensitive decision you make. Not just look at cost vs gut feeling.

As for GPS, location based apps are the rage on Android, and the number that utilise GPS is growing. So yes it would be a deal breaker for me.

Yeah, and some other person is going to come around and say it's a deal breaker for them if it doesn't have a phone. These case by case sentiments mean nothing.


Since the device is probably not going to have some kind of fancy flip clamshell (based on many things Craig has said) it's going to be a dealbreaker for you anyway.

Who knows who wants GPS (could actually be most people want it), lets not exclude it because 2 people said no and 2 yes . As I said, lets cost it all up in the end then decide. Saying yeah or nah on a feature with no idea of who wants it and how much it really costs is meaningless .


There is a danger basing things on polls of course. So they need to be looked at objectively to. Example, 60% don't want feature A, so its omitted, 60% don't want feature B so its omitted and so forth. After a while you have excluded the key features of just about everyone. Basically I'm pointing out the problem with doing things by Poll , its better to do things by objective , which is why I was mentioning the fully support Android apps with the HW - that would be an objective.


Heres the link again on the $5 , hope it works this time


http://www.gpsbusine...der-5_a102.html


This is all just spitting in the wind anyway, as far as a P2 goes, its a long shot at best.

Indeed and sometimes that leads to unpredictable results. If it's just an up or down vote on features you often times get a different result than if you have people rank the features they want or make decisions about the relative cost of the unit.


I'd kind of like to see a camera on it, but that's mostly because I'd like to be able to use Google translate on signs, not sure that's going to be enough of a draw to warrant the cost and space considerations though.

 

[EssoAir]

On a different note, aparently if we get a good enough GPU and CPU in the P2, Dolphin Emulator (GameCube and Wii) is plauseable. (although unlikely). The real obstacles are finding a willing developer and the hardware of the P1.





Special thanks to Exophase for all the helpful comments.

 

[_wb_]

Nah, from what I read in that thread, there's no way the P2 will be able to emulate GameCube/Wii. It will probably be able to emulate Dreamcast fullspeed though, but that's probably one of the only extra consoles it will be able to emulate (besides of course emulating more demanding Windows games).


GameCube/Wii might be possible for the P3 or P4, in 2020 or so.

 

[monstercameron]

Nah, from what I read in that thread, there's no way the P2 will be able to emulate GameCube/Wii. It will probably be able to emulate Dreamcast fullspeed though, but that's probably one of the only extra consoles it will be able to emulate (besides of course emulating more demanding Windows games).


GameCube/Wii might be possible for the P3 or P4, in 2020 or so.

do you know what low power solution that can emulate gamecube and wii?

 

[EssoAir]

Nah, from what I read in that thread, there's no way the P2 will be able to emulate GameCube/Wii. It will probably be able to emulate Dreamcast fullspeed though, but that's probably one of the only extra consoles it will be able to emulate (besides of course emulating more demanding Windows games).


GameCube/Wii might be possible for the P3 or P4, in 2020 or so.

do you know what low power solution that can emulate gamecube and wii?

As far as "options" you have:


1) Porting, but no one wants to do that because you'd basically have to rewrite ever GC and Wii game out there


2) Emulation, yes Dolphin could be ported but as Exophase stated, it isn't worth the effort


3) A high power P2 capable of handling Dolphin as it is


If the P2 can run Wii games at release, it will literally fly off the virtual shelves. I don't know if it would ever be possible to fill every single pre-order since alomost everyone who ever had a GameCube will want one. Super Mario Sunshine on the go would be absolutely amazing.

 

[Grench]

I remember that years ago there was a hardware list that devices were required to have before being allowed to use the Android App Store (Now Google Play). If I recall right, it included a minimum screen resolution, touchscreen, gyroscope (tilt/axis), 802.11b or better networking, a minimal camera resolution and GPS. It did not require a phone.


It sounds like the P2 will ship with Android as the or one of the default OSs. Making an Android device without access to the Google Play store is rather pointless.


Does anyone have Google's current minimal required spec for Jelly Bean devices to have access to the Google Play store?

 

[_wb_]

Nah, from what I read in that thread, there's no way the P2 will be able to emulate GameCube/Wii. It will probably be able to emulate Dreamcast fullspeed though, but that's probably one of the only extra consoles it will be able to emulate (besides of course emulating more demanding Windows games).


GameCube/Wii might be possible for the P3 or P4, in 2020 or so.

do you know what low power solution that can emulate gamecube and wii?

As far as I understand, not even high power gaming PC's can emulate them full speed at the moment.


There is no way the P2 will be able to play GC/Wii games if it has to be released within a few years from now, since there just isn't any CPU/GPU available or in the pipeline that will 1) be powerful enough and 2) be suitable for a handheld device (low power, low heat). And even if it could be done, Nintendo would be quite pissed since they are still selling those consoles, so you can expect expensive lawsuits (even if Nintendo would have no legal grounds to win such a lawsuit, their lawyers would probably be able to make sure the P2 release date gets postponed by several years and/or the OPT goes bankrupt on legal defenses).


The only plausible option is to convince the makers of GC/Wii games to port/remake their games to Android. Or to port them to Pandora (2) or to release the sources, but that's of course never going to happen.

 

[EssoAir]

I remember that years ago there was a hardware list that devices were required to have before being allowed to use the Android App Store (Now Google Play). If I recall right, it included a minimum screen resolution, touchscreen, gyroscope (tilt/axis), 802.11b or better networking, a minimal camera resolution and GPS. It did not require a phone.


It sounds like the P2 will ship with Android as the or one of the default OSs. Making an Android device without access to the Google Play store is rather pointless.


Does anyone have Google's current minimal required spec for Jelly Bean devices to have access to the Google Play store?

You are referring to the copyrighted version of Android proprietary to Goole, Inc. We want to include a ROM based off of AOSP (Android Open Source Project) which has no requirements simply because it is open source. You can get GoogleServicesFramework.apk and Vending.apk installed on any android device if you are rooted.

 

[EssoAir]

Nah, from what I read in that thread, there's no way the P2 will be able to emulate GameCube/Wii. It will probably be able to emulate Dreamcast fullspeed though, but that's probably one of the only extra consoles it will be able to emulate (besides of course emulating more demanding Windows games).


GameCube/Wii might be possible for the P3 or P4, in 2020 or so.

do you know what low power solution that can emulate gamecube and wii?

As far as I understand, not even high power gaming PC's can emulate them full speed at the moment.


There is no way the P2 will be able to play GC/Wii games if it has to be released within a few years from now, since there just isn't any CPU/GPU available or in the pipeline that will 1) be powerful enough and 2) be suitable for a handheld device (low power, low heat). And even if it could be done, Nintendo would be quite pissed since they are still selling those consoles, so you can expect expensive lawsuits (even if Nintendo would have no legal grounds to win such a lawsuit, their lawyers would probably be able to make sure the P2 release date gets postponed by several years and/or the OPT goes bankrupt on legal defenses).


The only plausible option is to convince the makers of GC/Wii games to port/remake their games to Android. Or to port them to Pandora (2) or to release the sources, but that's of course never going to happen.

That's actually a good idea. Starting a petition to get Nintendo to port GameCube games to Android like how Sony made their PlayStation market thing for Android. I'll make the petition if anyone else is interested.

 

[EssoAir]

Also, can we get this thread Pinned to the top? It seems like a good thread the keep alive

 

[klapse]

Also, can we get this thread Pinned to the top? It seems like a good thread the keep alive

You seem to be doing fine keeping your favorite threads on top without help


Probably the main areas for performance improvements we can hope for from the next gen SOC are


+dreamcast emulation


+dosbox and qemu newer games


+HD video playback


+current android games


As Exophase explained, Gamecube is just nowhere near possible.. how come you didn't get that? are you about 15 years old? Just guessing, no offense intended

 

[EssoAir]

Also, can we get this thread Pinned to the top? It seems like a good thread the keep alive

You seem to be doing fine keeping your favorite threads on top without help />


Probably the main areas for performance improvements we can hope for from the next gen SOC are


+dreamcast emulation


+dosbox and qemu newer games


+HD video playback


+current android games


As Exophase explained, Gamecube is just nowhere near possible.. how come you didn't get that? are you about 15 years old? Just guessing, no offense intended />

Haha. Yes, I'm 16. I run a mobile Apps business. What I do is come up with ideas, then pay developers in india and china to make them. I guess I'm not used to the whole "no this can't be done" answer. Sorry for continuing to bring it up, I just have a hard time fathoming it not being a possibility

 

[EssoAir]

Got a response from the Texas Instruments people. They recommended just purchasing off of Newark.com

 

[EssoAir]

Is there any chance of the Open Pandora companies coming together under one company to build the P2? With all the P1 problems, it seems like a good idea

 

[bismuthdrummer]

Is there any chance of the Open Pandora companies coming together under one company to build the P2? With all the P1 problems, it seems like a good idea

Some light reading might tell you. A snowball through hell comes to mind...

 

[mcobit]

Don't forget, that if the two companies were one, it would probably already be gameover at this point.