Open Pandora VS Razer Switchblade?

[ProDigit]

For which target audience would both devices be best suited?


IMHO both devices are portable, and can do more than gaming.


They must address different users. The most obvious, one is Linux based, the other Windows based.


The Linux based one has a more limited range of games it can play. The Windows based is more compatible overall, more programs and games run on it without being emulated.


It's funny how in my last post I mentioned the Atom processor, and how Razor has now implemented an Atom processor! They chose a non-standard, top of the line Z-model Atom processor, that's more energy efficient than a regular atom netbook processor (like the N450/N550), and still has reasonable performance.


Price differences, I suspect the Razor would be more expensive.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/UiQ0AnlfBu4?feature=oembed

Battery wise, the Razor can run upto 4 hours of intensive gaming, which means something like 8 hours in low activity (standby/reading/playing back mp3's or writing documents, browsing online too I suppose).


If you look at both systems, what are your thoughts about both, and why would you prefer one over the other?

 

[slaeshjag]

Where's the nubs?

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, I think where the Switchblade is better at are Online-Games.


For classic games, it misses gaming controls. It's more a typical WoW-and-similar device.


So except for games like WoW, I'd prefer the Pandora.


Also, how big is the Switchblade?


Looks bigger than the Pandora, but you can never tell from renderings.

 

[Caine]

Also, how big is the Switchblade?


Looks bigger than the Pandora, but you can never tell from renderings.

Seems to be approximately three mice large which won't fit your pocket, more like a small netbook. If you have to carry around an extra bag to transport it you might as well get a decent laptop in my opinion.


Battery life is pretty horrible and I absolutely don't see the point in changing the appearance of the buttons (who the hell looks at their keyboard?). I don't see a touchscreen as a mouse replacement while gaming either.

 

[NearTao]

Well, I think where the Switchblade is better at are Online-Games.


For classic games, it misses gaming controls. It's more a typical WoW-and-similar device.


So except for games like WoW, I'd prefer the Pandora.


Also, how big is the Switchblade?


Looks bigger than the Pandora, but you can never tell from renderings.

Interesting... but not a real product yet.


I will keep my Pandora for now.

 

[Blue Protoman]

I doubt I'd ever get one of these, the Pandora suits all my needs.

 

[Nardella]

This is at least the third or fourth thread regarding the Switchblade. But it is fun to discuss.


First regarding battery life, I doubt that the Switchblade would be able to peak above 6 hours of light use.


Handheld gaming on this will probably be near impossible. This thing is for "PC gaming", that is things like first person shooters. Also use with a mouse is required for most if not all games. The keyboard is far too small for two handed use in gaming and even for full speed touch typing.


IMO this would be useless for playing any kind of console game as you would need a gamepad which means a big, clunky thing to carry around and means the screen will be too fare and too small when holding a gamepad.


If the Pandora did not exist and the Switchblade was available now for <600 USD I would consider saving up and buying it.


But seriously the Switchblade is simply a pumped up netbook. For gaming you could probably not use it comfortably without a table.


I also am sceptical about its gaming performance particularly if they go for an Intel GPU.


This thing is the middle ground between a netbook and a small dell xps laptop. If you play PC games on the go and need an ultraportable this is it. But if those are not your exact needs then IMO this thing is worthless.

 

[Blue Protoman]

And yet I know people who would fap to this whilst blindly calling bullshit on your argument (which is completely sound).

 

[ckblackm]

If it doesn't have an nvidia or ATI GPU with it's own vram.. it's not going to be very useful for playing games.

 

[Exophase]

I think it'll suck for most of the games that people try to run on it, which includes any PC games made in the past 5+ years or so. Oaktrail has a GPU that's now pretty dated, even at its highest battery churning clock speed (note that the SGX543MP2 in iPad 2 curb stomps this). And historically the drivers for it, even on Windows, have been pretty awful.


This concept has exactly one innovation, the dynamic keyboard. And while it's definitely slick I don't see how it really enables much of anything. Is it really that hard to get used to a standard keyboard for different gaming scenarios, without having the buttons light up to tell you what to do? Take that away and it's just another clamshell UMPC. Also humorous how the guy in the video calls it Intel's new Atom platform, I think Atom is what Intel changed the least in the past few years.


And while they might tout the touchscreen as being a good mouse equivalent that obviously doesn't hold as well for gaming where you have to constantly press keys and mouse. They even admit on the web site that the ideal configuration is with an external mouse, which is just no good. Would have been better off having at least something on its right side, like an analog nub/stick, ball, or trackpad.

 

[bismuthdrummer]

I'll pitch in my pennies again on this because, as Nardella said, it's fun to compare.


I know nothing about the underlying hardware save some rough experience on what the device would be capable of. If what others above say is true (and I don't doubt that it is), then I fear this device may not fare so well due to misleading advertisement. Every system totes its flashiest and most resource intensive games, but this particular device's design appears to be built on gaming and gamers. If it can't stack up to its users' needs in terms of proper umph, then the sell will remain a hard one, sweetass keyboard or no. Pandora is at least a hobbyist device with a cool open system and very usable/hackable hardware.


I COULD see a role with Flash or browser-based games, for instance. Required resources are generally lighter (ok, somebody may prove me wrong), the games often have portable systems in mind, and tons of those games are out there (Kongregate is good example imo). Programming the keys might be a bit of a hurdle, but then again probably not if third-party websites could host various key setups by experienced gamer/designers. Are Flash games a good standalone reason to get this device at its likely high pricetag? Well, probably not.

 

[Nintendo]

meh, it'll probably never get released.

 

[Zephyr]

If I'm planning to play computer games I'll take my custom desktop any day over the switchblade. Hands down I would rather get a Pandora. Even though I don't have one yet, I'm planning to order one soon.


Woot. First post in the Pandora section of the forums.

 

[BaDToaD]

Looks ok but tbh if I'm gonna have to put it in a bag to carry it I'd much rather take my Alienware M11x which would eat the Switchblade for breakfast. And trying to suggest you can play FPS on that device with no mouse is hilarious.


I reckon the price point is going to be way too high for the specs too.


As for the keyboard, it's cool but how often do you look at the keyboard when you're gaming?


Cool device but serious gaming PC? nah!

 

[Nintendo]

IMO, Pandora and this thing shouldn't be compared, because their target markets aren't the same.

 

[BaDToaD]

IMO, Pandora and this thing shouldn't be compared, because their target markets aren't the same.

And This ^^

 

[ProDigit]

For classic games, it misses gaming controls.

It has a keyboard that can change the keys, and can convert to a fully qwerty keyboard minus the ins/home/pgdn/.. arrows and numeric clavier of a standard keyboard. More like a netbook keyboard. It can also eliminate keys, and sort them in a way optimized for gaming. The keyboard seems to 'know' what keys you need to use to play the game. How it does that, I don't know.

Also, how big is the Switchblade?

I heard it's 7"


Large for thumb typing and small for text typing. But both are possible.

If it doesn't have an nvidia or ATI GPU with it's own vram.. it's not going to be very useful for playing games.

Again I 'heard' (or read somewhere) it has an AMD (similar to hollywood) GPU. Expect Wii graphics, but on a lower resolution (probably 1024x600) it'll perform slightly better compared to the Wii which plays back on a 720p/1080p TV.


@Exophrase: For x86 programs and games it well outperforms the ARM processors doing the same thing emulated.


As far as performance, there aren't too many x86 programs that also run on ARM, to compare performance between both architectures.


but according to this website, the older Atom N270 already has 3,8 MIPS, which is about twice the speed of a cortex A8 processor!


It is true that ARM is a more efficient architecture when programs are idling, but the performance of X86 processors have been tweaked for several decades, and generally outperform ARM at full TDP. meaning while ARM is stuck at 1-2GHZ, x86 processors can go 2-4Ghz, and perform much better!


Under load, ARM basically sucks compared to current x86 processors.


In the switchblade is an atom Z processor, probably clocked between 1,80Ghz and 2Ghz (similar performance to a 1.1-1.4Ghz Celeron processor, and very similar to Cortex A8/A9 processors.


The Atom Z processors only have 512kB L-cache, very low, but for gaming lower L-cache may not really be an issue, as most games tax the GPU more than the CPU.


He mentioned 'a new Atom platform', because they are using the newest of the newest Z-series processor, that is not on the market yet, and has especially been manufactured by Intel for the Switchblade.


I believe most Direct X 9 games run perfectly fine on it, some running between normal and good video settings; few games on best or ultra settings; especially so, because it does not have to display the game in HD resolutions (unless you'd connect it to an external tv).


I do also prefer a trackpad, or at least a mouseball/finger mouse IR sensor. Nevertheless you can always plug a mouse (or other controller device like analog joystick) in the USB port.


It's running a modified version of Windows 7, so the compatibility with devices is the same as windows.


@Sony: I do hope it will get released! It seems like a cool device, but it's been in development for years now (sounds familiar?)...


I know my Asus EeePC 701 did fit in the inside of my jacked pocket, not in any other pockets. This device is similar in size... Perhaps openpandora may be smaller than this one and would fit better, but I think it may be possible that this device fits...

 

[Grench]

If it is too big to fit in my front left pants pocket then it is an automatic fail for me.


The Pandora is the largest device I am willing to carry that way.

 

[ProDigit]

Here are some pics; should give you a better idea:

The first picture is the older version. The second picture is the newer version, which is more widescreen, and seems a bit larger.


The first built size is 172mm x 115mm x 25 mm, which would barely fit in pants (no jeans).


The second built is larger, more closer to 20 x 12 x 2 cm, and would not fit in pants.

 

[Exophase]

@Exophrase: For x86 programs and games it well outperforms the ARM processors doing the same thing emulated.
As far as performance, there aren't too many x86 programs that also run on ARM, to compare performance between both architectures.


It is true that ARM is a more efficient architecture when programs are idling, but the performance of X86 processors have been tweaked for several decades, and generally outperform ARM at full TDP. meaning while ARM is stuck at 1-2GHZ, x86 processors can go 2-4Ghz, and perform much better!


In the switchblade is an atom Z processor, probably clocked between 1,80Ghz and 2Ghz (similar performance to a 1.1-1.4Ghz Celeron processor, and very similar to Cortex A8/A9 processors.


The Atom Z processors only have 512kB L-cache, very low, but for gaming lower L-cache may not really be an issue, as most games tax the GPU more than the CPU.


He mentioned 'a new Atom platform', because they are using the newest of the newest Z-series processor, that is not on the market yet, and has especially been manufactured by Intel for the Switchblade.


I believe most Direct X 9 games run perfectly fine on it, some running between normal and good video settings; few games on best or ultra settings; especially so, because it does not have to display the game with HD resolutions (unless you'd connect it to an external tv).


I do also prefer a trackpad, or at least a mouseball/finger mouse IR sensor. Nevertheless you can always plug a mouse (or other controller device like analog joystick) in the USB port.


It's running a modified version of Windows 7, so the compatibility with devices is the same as windows.

Please don't call me "Exophrase" ;p


When comparing performance there is no such thing as "ARM" and "x86" - these are architectures for CPUs, not microarchitecture implementations. Atom is not a high performance or efficient design; it's not merely TDP that prevents it from going to 2-4GHz. Switchblade is supposed to have a Z690 at 1.7GHz (http://www.itwire.com/your-it-news/entertainment/48748-razer-switchblade-first-to-sport-an-atom-z690), but chances are that it'll rarely execute at that. The other Z6xx series Lincroft chips meant for deployment in Oaktrail have a TDP of 3W with a lower peak of 1.5GHz - note, however, that this TDP is only achieved by throttling which is probably based on temperature. So if you actually design around 3W there's a good chance you won't routinely see 1.7GHz. Mind you, for a platform this mobile you normally want to consume a lot less than 3W on the SoC..


Yes, assuming you really do ever see 1.7GHz this is higher clock than say, what you'll find in the iPad 2 I mentioned. But Cortex-A9 has more perf/MHz than Atom, and moreover it has two cores instead of one with hyperthreading. On games, which actually can usually make good use of at least two cores these days, it doesn't look like nearly as much of a clear win. But the real point here isn't the CPU but the GPU, you can see how much of a difference it made in iPad 1 to iPad 2. And Atom Z6xx GPU is more like what was in iPad 1 than what's in iPad 2. You yourself say that most games tax the GPU more than the CPU, but spend most of your response talking about the CPU.


Of course it'll outperform the same thing emulated on ARM, but that isn't really the point. The relevant comparison is for new games released on say, iOS and Android, vs new games released for PC. You'll be hard pressed to find any game even pushing new that will run acceptably on this, and then you'll wish that the high-end iOS games would be available here instead (which they won't be). If you really think most DX9 games will run fine in this then you are dreaming. You will be lucky if they even display correctly, let alone play fast enough on the lowest settings. And it'll need to have competent drivers, something I wouldn't put full confidence in given the track record Intel has had with GMA500/600 drivers. Note how in the videos you see them playing Quake 3. That should tell you something.


Sure, there'll be a sweet spot where it's good for pretty old games (maybe 6-7 years old or older?) that haven't been ported to phones and tablets. If that's your thing then this is perhaps the device for you.


When I talk about Atom not being "new" what I'm saying is that even though Intel keeps rolling out new SKUs for Atom and new SoCs the actual Bonnell core has not changed one iota, furthermore it has been using the same 45nm process since day one. And Lincroft chips, which this is using, were supposed to be big in devices over a year ago. It's another fresh paint of coat over the same thing. And of course Intel wouldn't manufacture anything specifically for something like Switchblade, that's quite outrageous.. They just happen to be the first product to announce using it.

The keyboard seems to 'know' what keys you need to use to play the game. How it does that, I don't know.

It knows because the game has to configure the keyboard. In the real world few games will actually do this. This is something they probably don't want you to know.