Pandora vs Nokia N810

[Dauric]

I pre-ordered a Pandora on the second opportunity earlier this year.

I know full well that I may have to purchase another one when the bugs and kinks are worked out of the hardware, and that ther will be software bugs to be patched along the way, but I'm not looking at the first run of Pandoras as the finished product. I'm an early adopter of the Pandora because without early-adoption there may never be -any- machine like the Pandora, much less a second or later run with bugs fixed. I'm an early adopter of the Pandora because the device is exactly what I need in a day-to-day-portable computer (Netbooks are too big, Multifunction Cell phones don't do what I want). Even if the Pandora project falls flat, every order shows that there is a demand for a 'pocket-book' class computer, and someone be they big company or small garage developer, just might step up to full that demand.

I want my Pandora, that's why I ordered it. But I also realize that this is an investment, and no investment is a sure-bet. Even knowing that it's not a certainty I still find the investment of enough value to put my money in to it.

I want my Pandora, just like anyone wants their investments to pay off.

my own $0.02.

 

[mduffor]

I'm really looking forward to the Pandora, and hope to buy one of the second run (and when will that be exactly? )

As for the Nokia N810, I have one and while it is a great little internet device that fits in my pocket, the interface is kinda crap for playing games. The "d-pad" is very cumbersome, and there aren't any external buttons you could really use to play games with. The few games available for it are fine as long as they aren't action packed.... Breakout isn't very usable with the touchscreen Battle for Wesnoth pretty much brings the system to its knees likely due to memory requirements. I haven't tried any emulators on it yet, because there isn't much point since the interface isn't arcade friendly.

The screen is bright and very sharp. You can read really small text on it without problems if you have normal eyesight. If the same screen is used in the Pandora, then it will be fantastic.

So the N810 is great for internet surfing, music, podcasts, maps, and even internet phone calls. But you'll want a Pandora if you want to play games.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[WizardStan]

this is an investment

GRRAAAAH!!!!
*head asplode*

 

[urjaman]

this is an investment

GRRAAAAH!!!!
*head asplode*

Why?

 

[WizardStan]

Why?

Because it isn't, by any legal definition of the word, an investment. And I've argued against its use as such so many times it drives me insane.
Like using "ironic" incorrectly. Or those that say "irregardless" or "unthawed".

 

[Tom`]

Why?

Because it isn't, by any legal definition of the word, an investment. And I've argued against its use as such so many times it drives me insane.
Like using "ironic" incorrectly. Or those that say "irregardless" or "unthawed".

"unthawed" is a new one for me. Isn't it just a slightly odd way to say "frozen?"

 

[WizardStan]

"unthawed" is a new one for me. Isn't it just a slightly odd way to say "frozen?"

It is, but it's always used in context to mean "defrosted". They say "unthaw" when they mean "thaw"

 

[joa]

I pre-ordered a Pandora on the second opportunity earlier this year.

I know full well that I may have to purchase another one when the bugs and kinks are worked out of the hardware, and that ther will be software bugs to be patched along the way, but I'm not looking at the first run of Pandoras as the finished product. I'm an early adopter of the Pandora because without early-adoption there may never be -any- machine like the Pandora, much less a second or later run with bugs fixed. I'm an early adopter of the Pandora because the device is exactly what I need in a day-to-day-portable computer (Netbooks are too big, Multifunction Cell phones don't do what I want). Even if the Pandora project falls flat, every order shows that there is a demand for a 'pocket-book' class computer, and someone be they big company or small garage developer, just might step up to full that demand.

I want my Pandora, that's why I ordered it. But I also realize that this is an investment, and no investment is a sure-bet. Even knowing that it's not a certainty I still find the investment of enough value to put my money in to it.

I want my Pandora, just like anyone wants their investments to pay off.

my own $0.02.

Bugs fixes that add stability then cool. Software patches we'll all be able to take advantage of.

However, If the performance increases I think that's a bad idea, not for a long while anyway, It would split the community and development. for example, a dreamcast emulator might only be possible on a later revision with a slight better cpu/gpu.

I'm just throwing this out there, I do hope nothing specwise changes though and if so it should be called Pandora 2, Or we should be able to buy the upgraded component seperate to use on our launch revision pandora's

 

[joa]

N810 - available now - reality, Pandora - available ? - fantasy. It has no specs until it is actually produced and available. Until then you can say that it is powered by a fuel cell and processes teraflops. It is all just crap. Enjoy your N810.

It really does have a spec.

 

[darkblu]

Why?

Because it isn't, by any legal definition of the word, an investment.

*checks webster*

investment, n.
: the outlay of money usually for income or profit : capital outlay ; also : the sum invested or the property purchased

i don't see anything in this legal definition that would cause your head to explode.

 

[WizardStan]

i don't see anything in this legal definition that would cause your head to explode.

That's because you've never dealt with investment lawyers.

edit to clarify: that's a valid definition, not a legal definition.

 

[dflemstr]

i don't see anything in this legal definition that would cause your head to explode.

That's because you've never dealt with investment lawyers.

edit to clarify: that's a valid definition, not a legal definition.

[meta: In this post, I use the Latin-inspired syntax of established 'standardized' English, to comply to the highest of syntactical standards, as seems to be vitally important to you in this forum of ours.]

Please be considerate about the fact that not everyone here, including me, is a native English speaker.
[meta: Here, the word "including" refers to the set of people defined by "not everyone here", and not the set defined by "everyone here". Unfortunately, the English language doesn't provide a syntactical structure for grouping logically coherent words.]

The word 'legal' is actually appropriate in this context, if you, again - in this context, are referring to the defined 'laws' of the spoken and/or written language, also called 'syntax, spelling, meaning and grammar'.
[meta: Note the usage of single quotes here, so as not to make people think that I'm actually citing anyone.]

And the word 'investment' is also used correctly here, if the original author considers the value of the physical OpenPandora® unit to be greater than the money he/she spent in advance to receive the aforementioned unit.

So, my question to you is: What does it really matter if words used in an online forum aren't actually used in their ideal context?
Having said that, I find it extremely annoying when someone actually makes serious mistakes, such as confusing "their" with "they're", since those two expressions have completely different fundamental meanings. Trivial mistakes as have been demonstrated here, however, I utter my indifference towards.

Now let's stop this nonsense and return to the topic at hand.

 

[WizardStan]

So, my question to you is: What does it really matter if words used in an online forum aren't actually used in their ideal context?

Short history: several months ago someone likened their purchase to a legal investment, the kind where you might put money into a company or project for an equivalent share in that same company or project, and then used that interpretation as a spring board to start questioning OpenPandora's design decisions. Clearly an incorrect interpretation, and when the dust had finally settled, I'd found a new appreciation (or opposite thereof) for the word, especially when used in a public forum where people have varying interpretations.

 

[darkblu]

So, my question to you is: What does it really matter if words used in an online forum aren't actually used in their ideal context?

Short history: several months ago someone likened their purchase to a legal investment, the kind where you might put money into a company or project for an equivalent share in that same company or project, and then used that interpretation as a spring board to start questioning OpenPandora's design decisions. Clearly an incorrect interpretation, and when the dust had finally settled, I'd found a new appreciation (or opposite thereof) for the word, especially when used in a public forum where people have varying interpretations.

interesting. i've used the word for exactly the opposite purposes - to fend off people who were nagging how non-merchant-like the OP has been toward them.

btw, when a word has a legal application as well as colloquial such, the latter, aside from used more frequently, often may have quite legally-incorrect connotation. for instance, when i say 'my kids are my investment into the future' i don't think i want to get anywhere near legal grounds as i surely don't expect to own anything of my children.

so coloquently, investment can be defined as spending of resources with the long-term prospect of disproportunately-big return, not necesserily in monetary value, and under a conceivable risk of not getting that return. i belive many people have been using the term in this form around here. see, nothing head-explosion-inducing here ; )

 

[Dauric]

I don't think at any time I ever suggested that I was thinking I had a say in the development of the project.

Preferred Stock is non voting stock, but it is still an investment. Your head explosion has to deal with an individual abusing the concept and applying terms that are clearly not in his specific case (Ie trying to claim that his Prefered Stock investment granted the rights of a common-stockholder), nothing to do with the legal or literal definitions of "Investment".

That said, I stand by my statement for the reasons that I laid out. I believe that in a worst case scenario: showing with my money, the only language big manufacturers understand, that I'm open to purchasing a 'pocket-book' type of computer is worth the money for a potential return of someone making Pandora style computers, and in a best-case scenario: that I want to show my enthusiasm, support OpenPandora.Inc and independent manufacturing, and get a Pandora for that money.

 

[crackerjacker]

I wonder why more people are not identifying the similarities between the Pandora and the n810. They are both very similar platforms, with some real hurdles to overcome.

The biggest one I see is screen size. It's fairly small, and direct ports of most linux software will be unusable at this size. A fairly serious amount of tweaking is necessary to get the 'best of linux' apps running on these tiny screens.

Their both using a beta distribution of linux focused on the arm architecture. Nokia has Maemo, it's a lot more polished than Angstrom, but maybe not as flexible. I wonder if what we really need here is a tablet centric distro vs. architecture specific, to enhance the pool of usable apps on various devices. Android may well be the answer here.

Neither has an app store. Forgive me for bringing up the iPhone, but Apple really made a smart move here. Apps don't have to be expensive, but a little incentive goes a long way towards getting cool stuff on your hardware.

More ramblings to follow.

 

[diceyface]

I'm glad we can go back to the topic at hand (the lawyer-talk was scary)
I own an n800 (not to be confused with the n810) and it's not very good:
the screen is dimmer on one side
the buttons are not intuitive or convenient
there's no USB host support
the "thriving" community doesn't make many interesting programs
the CPU seems to struggle with everything
flash supports exists but is very very limited
the browser (which is it's primary feature) is not only slow but featureless and buggy
nothing but the menu seems to have any polish to it

I know I've listed all the bad things and i apologise but my experience was neither fun or productive, just expensive

now my poo is flung i feel a little better

 

[Dauric]

Small screens are something that all portable format machines have to deal with, some are shockingly visible regardless of their size and we have yet to see the Pandora. The functional mockups I've seen for the Pandora look pretty good all things considered.

As far as App Stores, I doubt that they'd be profitable enough attempting to support Linux hardware. It's a different community mindset than Apple, Nintendo, Sony or -especially- Microsoft (since the latter three have had "App Stores" for their gaming consoles before the iPhone). Linux users are accustomed to go looking for the stuff they want, they're used to community forums and people promoting their own software.

As far as encouraging developers: There's been a lot of work for Pandora games going on already, and since the Pandora is running Linux rather than a proprietary format (unlike 'App Store' platforms) those programs will work on laptops and desktops without different versions or massive recompiles of code (an important point for any project developing software for a platform that hasn't shipped yet). And again, it's a different community mindset. Developers of Linux software tend to embrace the internet as a way to distribute directly to their audiences without the expenses of a middleman-riddled distribution structure.

Is one way 'Better' than the other? Arguments go both ways until the sun goes nova. That said, Linux users tend to not support the centralized distribution methods required to make an "App Store" work.

 

[Dauric]

I'm glad we can go back to the topic at hand (the lawyer-talk was scary)
the "thriving" community doesn't make many interesting programs

Any time anyone says "Thriving Community" I get twitchy. Half the time it's marketers counting the number of times that someone published "Hello World"

That's actually one of the nice things about the Pandora, since it's Linux and not a proprietary format there's already a lot of good stuff out there.

 

[crackerjacker]

I'm glad we can go back to the topic at hand (the lawyer-talk was scary)
the buttons are not intuitive or convenient
there's no USB host support
the "thriving" community doesn't make many interesting programs
the CPU seems to struggle with everything
flash supports exists but is very very limited
the browser (which is it's primary feature) is not only slow but featureless and buggy
nothing but the menu seems to have any polish to it

There is actually USB host support on the n800. I have one and use it.

As for everything else, I believe that we are going to experience similar issues with the pandora, as the two are practically cousins. While most commercial manufacturers have indeed implemented some sort of app store, Apple was the first to host your app for free. Only charging a commission if your app was purchased. That combined with a little bit of QC to make sure that posted apps actually worked made their product a huge success. I do not see any reason why the pandora could not do something similar. *cough cough* Android.

Running around saying its linux, of course it will have apps, is ignorant. The n800 is linux and it suffers from a lack of apps and or apps that work well. Additionally, DEU usability is necessary to make this thing a huge success. You could probably fit all the hard core linux users into the Pandora Pre-order. Commercial success is gonna require app availability and easy installation.