Of boards and displays


Silent-Hunter

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Well, I don't mind holding it like that. I tried it with the Pandora, it's fine.
 

fusion_power

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Well, you must have

* tools (e.g. stereo microscope)

* a calm hand

* experience

* and use some secret tricks and magic words :)

But it is not necessary that everyone can do that. People are different and everybody has his/her own strengths.
I don't have:

* tools (e.g. stereo microscope)

* a calm hand

* experience (I had basic soldering lessons in school but nothing comparable to the tiny stuff in the Pyra)

* and use some secret tricks and magic words :) (So the Pyra will working through some magic too? :D )

I only have some ideas, like most people here. ^^"
 

Loonie

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Great to see the Pyra kicking and punching its way to life. For me it's as good as bought.

On my 1GHz Pandora I need way too much pressure even with a stylus.
Same deal with mine. I hardly ever use the touch screen because of it. I have to cradle the screen in my left hand and drive the stylus into it with the right hand to get it to register.
 

levi

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Nice, saw it allready in Twitter, but there are also peaple whitout twitter..
It's still possible to get an rss feed out of twitter without having a twitter login, though you have to use a third party tool to get it. I'd link my link, but it seems the site's used up all it's twitter connections recently, so me linking it would hardly help - which I guess is why these third party tools never seem to last all that long. I'm afraid you'll have to google for an rss tool to use.
 

WizardStan

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From the picture it appears keyboard backlighting may be AltGr + Dpad Up/Down, and screen brightness could be AltGr + PgUp/PgDn.
Those pads are labeled "BL-UP", "BL-DN", "BL-R", and "BL-L". Given that the "keyboard" are labeled "B-" and the game keys on the right are "BR-" I'm guessing that "B" stands for "button" and "BL" stands for "Buttons Left", not "Backlight". I don't see anything to indicate the intention of using them for backlighting or brightness, unless you are seeing something I'm not.Which is good because, as you say, having the gamepads with alternate functions would lead to disaster.

We can definitely see the double width space on the right, same as on the Pandora, however, so I think it's safe to say that's set in stone.
 

rygD

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and magic words
People always give me dirty looks and cover the ears of children when I use those loudly.  Then again, maybe your magic words are of a different nature than mine, and they are used in a different context. 
 
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Saber

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From the picture it appears keyboard backlighting may be AltGr + Dpad Up/Down, and screen brightness could be AltGr + PgUp/PgDn.
Those pads are labeled "BL-UP", "BL-DN", "BL-R", and "BL-L". Given that the "keyboard" are labeled "B-" and the game keys on the right are "BR-" I'm guessing that "B" stands for "button" and "BL" stands for "Buttons Left", not "Backlight". I don't see anything to indicate the intention of using them for backlighting or brightness, unless you are seeing something I'm not.
Which is good because, as you say, having the gamepads with alternate functions would lead to disaster.


We can definitely see the double width space on the right, same as on the Pandora, however, so I think it's safe to say that's set in stone.
I noticed and thought the same but my post was more a "feeler" for new(any) info on where OP will go with those controls. Those labels are exactly the same as a previous board BTW, unconfirmed still, and mean nothing about what will make it onto those keys, spacebar or otherwise.  
 

WizardStan

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Those labels are exactly the same as a previous board BTW, unconfirmed still, and mean nothing about what will make it onto those keys, spacebar or otherwise.
The two spacebar buttons are physically connected. While I don't suspect it would be too difficult to change the trace from one pair to another it's probably undesired. If those are labeled space on this "final" board I think it's safe to assume that that's what ED has chosen.
 

levi

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I understood it's a simple trace from one floating side of the switch to the adjacent switch's floating side, which you can simply cut to make the two float independently, based on whether the switch is bridged by a keypress or not. But I can't remember where I read that, I'm afraid.
 

Saber

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Those labels are exactly the same as a previous board BTW, unconfirmed still, and mean nothing about what will make it onto those keys, spacebar or otherwise.
The two spacebar buttons are physically connected. While I don't suspect it would be too difficult to change the trace from one pair to another it's probably undesired. If those are labeled space on this "final" board I think it's safe to assume that that's what ED has chosen.
It's okay with me if your expectations are correct but ED said before he wants an "uncentered" layout. If space-bar is in the same place it was on the Pandora, then I wonder what will be at the vacated "M" position? Menu? Compose? As I said before, time will tell.
 

WizardStan

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I understood it's a simple trace from one floating side of the switch to the adjacent switch's floating side, which you can simply cut to make the two float independently, based on whether the switch is bridged by a keypress or not. But I can't remember where I read that, I'm afraid.
As far as I know that's the case, it's been said several times in different places, sometimes even by myself so may not be entirely accurate.
If space-bar is in the same place it was on the Pandora, then I wonder what will be at the vacated "M" position?
What vacated "M"? Which image are you looking at? I see a comma, period, z, x, c, v, b, n, m, two spaces, and an AltGR on the bottom row, basically the same as on the Pandora.
 

vcoleiro1

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Jan 23, 2011
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Any more thoughts on how you will fund a production run of the PYRA ED?  .  ie is Kickstarter or Indiegogo still on the cards, or are you leaning to a different method.
 

Hồng Thất Công

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@exophase: If you send me your Pandora, I can replace the screen.
Thanks, but my two Pandoras are too busy. My CC unit is generating brown noise to the speakers in my bedroom and my GHz unit is where I test DraStic (when the Linux x86 version doesn't suffice). That may be pretty much all I use it for these days but it's a pretty important function that I wouldn't want to be without for any length of time. It's not really that big of a deal since I don't need to touch it too much.


Can't wait to replace the dev Pandora with a Pyra though.
How about I send you my rarely used ghz unit first with perfect touch screen. Once you receive it you can send yours to me. This way you have no down time.
 
I

illuminerdi

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What about the telephony chip? Will there be a US version of the Pyra for US phone networks? Sorry for off topic, but I really need to know, since I want to replace my phone.
Well, I first need to find out what's so special about US - but we can use all of the 3G/4G chips available from the same manufacturer - they're pin compatible.
I don't see any detailed responses to this so I wanted to see if this issue had ever been properly addressed?

As far as telephony in the US goes the basic things to deal with are the different in GSM/LTE bands that the US uses compared to Euro territories, and the existence of CDMA.

Personally I would just abandon CDMA compatibility altogether.  Yes this hurts people who use Verizon/Sprint here in the US but CDMA compatibility is a huge headache because it means separate chips and thus dealing with separate drivers, separate basebands, etc, all to tackle the smallest (overall) segment of the US market.  It's important to note that CDMA is *dying*.  Verizon and Sprint both have LTE networks, so at worst a Pyra user on Verizon/Sprint will lose 3G coverage but still have 4G/LTE, as long as VZ/Sprint has enabled LTE in that user's area.  Yes it's not ideal nor is it fair to VZ/Sprint customers, but I don't think it's fair for the Pyra to have to expend its very limited time/resources catering to a dying segment of the US telephony market.  Another very important factor is that CDMA carriers usually require authorization before they will allow a CDMA device onto their network.  Most of them *don't* allow devices onto their network if the carrier does not sell the device - so not only is CDMA dying, you're facing an uphill battle to get a 3rd party device on a CDMA network.

The other thing with US cellular compatibility is bands/frequencies.  Some US mobile providers use different frequencies than Euro providers, so the chip needs to be broadly compatible with various frequencies, or else it will effectively be region-limited in that regard. There is *some* overlap, but it's very possible for a device to be compatible with European LTE and not with US LTE.

The biggest (GSM) providers in the US are AT&T and T-Mobile, so ensuring that the Pyra works on AT&T and TMO will cover the largest majority of US users.  Almost all other US carriers are running on those networks.  Boost Mobile, Virgin Mobile, and a few other small carriers are CDMA but most of them don't let unapproved devices on their networks anyway.

I can detail the whole thing with LTE bands if asked, but ED is probably already on top of it, but if you want info on how that stuff works, feel free to ask or PM me.  I worked in the US telecom industry for about 5 years, so I'm pretty well versed in all of it and I'm happy to answer any questions if it would be of help.
 

Grench

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Interesting that you would dismiss CDMA as the "smallest (overall) segment of the US Market".  That Sir is a myth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_wireless_communications_service_providers

Sort by descending on the Subscribers column.

Verizon at 125.3 Million is CDMA

AT&T at 120.6 Million is GSM

Sprint at 55.9 Million is CDMA

T-Mobile at 55.0 Million is GSM

US Cellular at 4.76 Million is CDMA

The next 5 companies comprise ~2 Million and are CDMA

GSM Total in the top 10 companies is 175.6 Million

CDMA Total in the top 10 companies is ~187 Million

CDMA is the LARGEST segment of the US subscriber population and has the LARGEST coverage.  There are vast swaths of the country with spotty or no GSM coverage that have strong CDMA signal strengths.  The main cities are covered well by both, but in rural areas, CDMA reigns.

However, the part that you have correct is that CDMA devices require carrier cooperation in order to get them onto their networks - and that is unlikely to be forthcoming.   GSM's advantage to being able to acquire a SIM card for the given carrier and have it simply work is an incredible advantage.  IMHO this ends up trumping CDMA's larger audience and network.
 

hns

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However, the part that you have correct is that CDMA devices require carrier cooperation in order to get them onto their networks - and that is unlikely to be forthcoming
Someone on Verizon right now may want to give them a call and explain that they're planning to buy a phone internationally that is compatible with their network and will they activate it if they do.
I suspect they'll say no.


Even their "Bring Your Own Device" plans states "eligible Verizon Wireless phone" meaning a phone you've already purchased from them for use on their network, which, honestly, is complete BS and shouldn't be a selling feature but whatever.
Maybe someone can check if the Gemalto PVS8 or PXS8 is ok. They are pin compatible and it might only be a matter of planning and ordering the correct variants. Maybe a little more work for getting type approval.

http://m2m.gemalto.com/products/industrial-plus/lga/pvs8.html

http://m2m.gemalto.com/products/industrial-plus/lga/pxs8.html
 

Grench

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However, the part that you have correct is that CDMA devices require carrier cooperation in order to get them onto their networks - and that is unlikely to be forthcoming
Someone on Verizon right now may want to give them a call and explain that they're planning to buy a phone internationally that is compatible with their network and will they activate it if they do.
I suspect they'll say no.


Even their "Bring Your Own Device" plans states "eligible Verizon Wireless phone" meaning a phone you've already purchased from them for use on their network, which, honestly, is complete BS and shouldn't be a selling feature but whatever.
Maybe someone can check if the Gemalto PVS8 or PXS8 is ok. They are pin compatible and it might only be a matter of planning and ordering the correct variants. Maybe a little more work for getting type approval.

http://m2m.gemalto.com/products/industrial-plus/lga/pvs8.html

http://m2m.gemalto.com/products/industrial-plus/lga/pxs8.html
I'm not sure how to check this.  Even if the device is compliant/compatible with CDMA, it still leaves open the question of if any of the CDMA carriers would be willing to let it onto their network.  CDMA works via on-device programming instead of a SIM card.  Without the 'secret codes' that the carrier uses to set up the phone...
 

hns

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However, the part that you have correct is that CDMA devices require carrier cooperation in order to get them onto their networks - and that is unlikely to be forthcoming
Someone on Verizon right now may want to give them a call and explain that they're planning to buy a phone internationally that is compatible with their network and will they activate it if they do.
I suspect they'll say no.


Even their "Bring Your Own Device" plans states "eligible Verizon Wireless phone" meaning a phone you've already purchased from them for use on their network, which, honestly, is complete BS and shouldn't be a selling feature but whatever.
Maybe someone can check if the Gemalto PVS8 or PXS8 is ok. They are pin compatible and it might only be a matter of planning and ordering the correct variants. Maybe a little more work for getting type approval.

http://m2m.gemalto.com/products/industrial-plus/lga/pvs8.html

http://m2m.gemalto.com/products/industrial-plus/lga/pxs8.html
I'm not sure how to check this.  Even if the device is compliant/compatible with CDMA, it still leaves open the question of if any of the CDMA carriers would be willing to let it onto their network.  CDMA works via on-device programming instead of a SIM card.  Without the 'secret codes' that the carrier uses to set up the phone...
maybe:

1. follow links

2. download Data Sheet:





[SIZE=9pt]APPROVALS [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]> [/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]FCC, UL, IC, CCF[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]> [/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]Verizon Wireless approval (CDG1/CDG2), Sprint[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]> [/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]Additional local approvals and network operator certifications [/SIZE]
But I don't know if these carriers and standards are what you expect. And I don't know the certification procedures for devices using such pre-certified modules.




Anyways, Cinterion is open to help with such approvals (they want us and others to use their CDMA modules as well): http://m2m.gemalto.com/support-and-downloads/support/overview/support-packages.html

It would not make sense if they produce and certify modules where the devices built around can't be connected to a network...

 

This page also sheds some light on it: http://www.globalcertificationforum.org/certification.html
 
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WizardStan

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It would not make sense if they produce and certify modules where the devices built around can't be connected to a network
Oh, there is no doubt about the physical capabilities of the device, I'm sure that if you used the PXS8 it could, for all technical reasons, be connected to any CDMA network.The doubt is whether the company will allow it. The person who purchases the device still needs to call up their carrier to have it activated and there's no guarantee they'll allow it.

Verizon has a bring-your-own-phone program that explicitly mentions being able to sign up with a phone you already own... previously purchased from Verizon. But not just any phone purchased from them, they exclude certain phones from this program. They will refuse to activate certain phones that they have sold on their bring-your-own-device plan, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to think how hard it would be to get them to activate a phone they didn't get any money from the sale of.

And it could be entirely inconsistent, each person calling in and getting a different response. Verizon is huge, it's not like they can send out a company memo that says "Pyra is OK to activate", one person may get a rep who knows about it and understands it and can look up the policies on it and give the OK where another might get someone brand new who knows just enough about the system to know you can only use certain phones and this "Pyra" thing isn't on that list, so no go.

It doesn't really matter how many certificates it has, if the person in control of the network doesn't want to (or simply cannot) activate it they aren't required to.
 
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