News from the embedded world


T4b said:
No it doesn't (read the bold text in one of my previous posts), but just to be sure, what do you think is the purpose?
Click to expand...
EvilDragon said:
2. UMTS and a hardware switch


Well, we thought about that - but adding a switch would increase the costs quite a bit (mold would be more complicated, switch would be needed, etc).


However, we found another, pretty cheap but effective solution:


We plan to include a small power measurement chip into the hardware, that is hardwired to a small LED.


Whenever the UMTS module needs power (which it does when it will be activated), the LED will light up.

This hardwiring cannot be changed in software, so you will KNOW when your UMTS module will be active!
Click to expand...
 
Sems like the Pyra will going to be future save (zukunftssicher) whit this changable SOC..

Only needs to open the Case and change the SOC Module yourself..

So insted of a Pyra 2 3 4 5, Evildragon amd GTA04 only needs to develop a new SOC Module..

But then, the Case have to bee pretty good, so it will survive many Yeahrs..

But as the Case will Designt and Build in Europe, i think this shouldnt be a big deal..

Cant wait to see the first Prototyps from the Case..
 
matzesu said:
Sems like the Pyra will going to be future save (zukunftssicher) whit this changable SOC..

Only needs to open the Case and change the SOC Module yourself..

So insted of a Pyra 2 3 4 5, Evildragon amd GTA04 only needs to develop a new SOC Module..

But then, the Case have to bee pretty good, so it will survive many Yeahrs..

But as the Case will Designt and Build in Europe, i think this shouldnt be a big deal..

Cant wait to see the first Prototyps from the Case..
Click to expand...
Well, I believe that there will still be a new handheld that is a case/PCB revision to the Pyra at some point, if only to add new features that would not be able to exist on the daughter board due to space considerations. However, any basic upgrades to the Pyra will be quite easy to pull off due to this interchangeability.

-God Ginrai
 
I would also prefer a switch below the battery to disable the modem.

Don't think it's annoying to do this.

Here are a few people who can't live with a modem that can not be disabled completely.

For most users a software switch is fine as well I think.
 
Natsu said:
T4b said:
No it doesn't (read the bold text in one of my previous posts), but just to be sure, what do you think is the purpose?
Click to expand...
EvilDragon said:
2. UMTS and a hardware switch

Well, we thought about that - but adding a switch would increase the costs quite a bit (mold would be more complicated, switch would be needed, etc).

However, we found another, pretty cheap but effective solution:

We plan to include a small power measurement chip into the hardware, that is hardwired to a small LED.

Whenever the UMTS module needs power (which it does when it will be activated), the LED will light up.

This hardwiring cannot be changed in software, so you will KNOW when your UMTS module will be active!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
So you obviously didn't read what I told you to read:

T4b said:
But seriously, hard wired LEDs is something for the tinfoil hat guys.

[...]

If you can't trust the OS to reliably turn on/off something or to notify you when it does so, then you are fucked anyway!
Click to expand...
Edit: Or let's analyse it case by case:

Case 1 (most likely): Linux/GNU/<rest of the used free software> is uncompromised. We don't know about the module itself.

*Hardwired LEDs: Works, but is a waste of LEDs for the people who don't care. While you don't see the LEDs you don't know what happens, so people might spy on you without you noticing while your Pyra is in your bag/pocket or something.

*Monitoring lines to GPIO pins monitored in software: Works, can also notify you when you wouldn't see an LED, can make usage statistics, play alarm sounds, anything. If you don't care you can use the LED for something else.

Case 2 (less likely): Every part of the system is compromised. You can't trust Linux, Gnu, or any other software.

*Hard wired LEDs: Works, but the compromised system can do anything it wants with your data. It's no problem at all to for example collect data and send it out in bursts when you are using WLAN/3G anyway, to send all your passwords to someone, etc. Basically, you are fucked.

*Softwired LEDs: Don't work, but it doesn't matter as you are fucked anyway (see above)
 
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T4b said:
So you obviously didn't read what I told you to read:
Click to expand...
I couldn't find what you was talking about. Tho I scanned.
Then what would be the point of the LED? It would be adding a LED for the sake of it.
 
Natsu said:
T4b said:
So you obviously didn't read what I told you to read:
Click to expand...
I couldn't find what you was talking about. Tho I scanned.
Then what would be the point of the LED? It would be adding a LED for the sake of it.
Click to expand...
It could still be used to display that data, but that data would first go through the SoC.I think some programmable LEDs are a nice feature to have, one can put notifications for all kind of stuff on them, use them for the discussed status indicators for different pieces of hardware, make a light show, etc.
 
Wow, just came across this post on the boards. I'm amazed at how much investigation is going into this project, and I'm sure with such diligence we'll get the best product possible.


Personally I'm surprised that it ends up being cheaper to include a daughter board with the included connector costs than it is to make a single board, even if you don't need that whole board to be as complex as specific parts of it. I've never come across a project where making a single monster board hasn't been cheaper, but it's cool if you can do it and include the upgradeabilty at basically no extra cost.
 
Levi said:
I've never come across a project where making a single monster board hasn't been cheaper, but it's cool if you can do it and include the upgradeabilty at basically no extra cost.
Click to expand...
That is because you have never made a board using extremely high density BGA parts with hundreds of pins. When the ball pitch gets below 0.4mm, you can't route a wire between the pads, and on burred layers, you can't rout traces between the vias, so you must use via in pad, blind vias to different depths in the board, and many layers to get all the signals to and from the BGA.

At this point, the larger the board, the more expensive because the alignment of layers gets expensive. So if they can get away with a large board using a cheaper process, and a small board for the SOC, even with the connector, it will be cheaper.

Me, I would not go with fewer than 4 layers on the cheap board. I don't trust boards without a ground plane.

On the paranoia issue, the best solution would be physical switch that disconnects power to the modem, in addition to the hardwired LED (If you don't like the power drain of the LED, it would be easy enough to remove the LED yourself). Have this as well as software control, but the primary requirement is that if you set the switch to off, there must be no way for the software to turn in on.

If you are not paranoid, turn on the switch and leave it on.

A good place to learn about what has been done in the past to spy on people is here:https://www.schneier.com/

bottom line, nothing but a physical switch that only you have access to is trustworthy. (And no, you can't trust Linux, or any other OS, you can't even trust the processor it runs on.)
 
All this paranoia makes me rather sad (and it's a very poor base for design decisions).
 
DAP said:
(And no, you can't trust Linux, or any other OS, you can't even trust the processor it runs on.)
Click to expand...
Well and what do you say against the argument that if you don't trust the OS and everything below (i.e. processor) you have lost anyway?
 
I independently contacted allwinner and presented myself as a potential buyer/manufacturer/OEM, a tactic that has worked very well for me in the past to get really hard to acquire pieces of technology. This is the response that was given, to me it looks like it is falling into the same realm as the intel dev boards. If ED hasn't heard back from them I'd image this is their stance.

Hello, Thanks for your interest in A80 OptimusBoard. Presently the board is just for internal development and we don't have plan to sell it till now.
Click to expand...
 
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That's exactly what I posted as first response from All winner here at the boards two weeks ago as well... that's nothing new ;)

Just confirms what they replied to me.
 
Must have missed that, people were saying the a80 was still under consideration, I suppose that's not the case after all.
 
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