News from the embedded world

[Grench]

I may be wrong, but having a 4G radio -should- also mean fallback capabilities to 3G and even 2G and 1X.

'4G' hardware should cover everyone - regardless of if their local isn't up to speed yet.

It would strike me as really odd if the 4G radio can't talk on a 3G network.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

@_wb_: Oh! That would cause a global LED shortage!

 

[WizardStan]

I may be wrong, but having a 4G radio -should- also mean fallback capabilities to 3G and even 2G and 1X.

It does. The PLS8 is a PHS8+LTE. Just as the PHS8 is PXS8+UMTS. They specifically designed the series to be completely forward compatible, just drop in the new model and get new features.

 

[Grench]

I may be wrong, but having a 4G radio -should- also mean fallback capabilities to 3G and even 2G and 1X.

It does. The PLS8 is a PHS8+LTE. Just as the PHS8 is PXS8+UMTS. They specifically designed the series to be completely forward compatible, just drop in the new model and get new features.

Yes - the socket/design is forward compatible.

But are the PLS8 and PHS8 able to back down to legacy 3G standards in areas without LTE or UMTS networks?

 

[Natsu]

I may be wrong, but having a 4G radio -should- also mean fallback capabilities to 3G and even 2G and 1X.


'4G' hardware should cover everyone - regardless of if their local isn't up to speed yet.


It would strike me as really odd if the 4G radio can't talk on a 3G network.

When I said cover everyone with 3G, I meant that it covers all frequencies unlike 4G.


As pointed out, some companies need 4G to have full 3G coverage.

Spoiler

>


PLS8-E:


Quad Band LTE: 800/900/1800/2600 MHz, FDD-Band (20,8,3,7)


Tri Band UMTS (WCDMA): 900/1800/2100 MHz,


FDD-Band (8,3,1)


Dual Band GSM/GPRS/EDGE: 900/1800 MHz


>


PLS8-US


Quad Band LTE: 700/850/AWS(1700/2100)/1900 MHz,


FDD-Band (17,5,4,2)


Tri Band UMTS (WCDMA): 850AWS(1700/2100)/1900 MHz,


FDD-Band (5,4,2)


Quad Band GSM/GRPS/EDGE: 850/900/1800/1900 MHz

PHS8-P / PHS8-J / PHS8-K: Five Bands UMTS/HSPA+


(WCDMA/FDD) (850/800, 900, 1900 and 2100 MHz),


Quad-Band GSM (850/900/1800/1900 MHz)


>


PHS8-US / PHS8-USA:


Dual Band UMTS/HSPA+ (850, 1900 MHz),


Dual-Band GSM (850/1900 MHz)


>


PHS8-E: Dual Band UMTS/HSPA+ (900/2100 MHz),


Dual-Band GSM (900/1800 MHz)

 

[WizardStan]

But are the PLS8 and PHS8 able to back down to legacy 3G standards in areas without LTE or UMTS networks?

Maybe not automatically, I don't know how connections are actually handled (haven't read that much yet), but it does cover the GSM/GPRS/EDGE networks.At worst there'll be some kind of scanner which reports available signals and the software will need to tell the modem which one to connect to, monitoring and switching it up if the requested signal is lost. At best it'll handle it entirely automatically.

 

[SNESFAN]

Different "G's" are often just a represent of the different frequencies. They are for the most part handled independently. You can be on a 700mhz 2G network, then switch to a 800mhz 3G network, then on 900mhz LTE/4G. The radios are programmed to scan for the best speed network in a area with acceptable signal. Each network will use more power based off speed, signal strength etc. "2G" using the least power because of lower speed lower frequency and therefore longer range/better acceptable signal. You can cap your own network selection with access to whatever frequency you want usually. It may have changed with 4g but you should be able to register directly with that band rather than a lower one then connect to the higher band. This stuff I'm certain is closed source radio programming that your carrier will put on your SIM along with a database of which towers your allowed to talk to on partner networks etc.

Bottom line frequencies are independent and the part of the radio programming you as a user can access should allow you to only connect to higher or lower bands depending on preference.

 

[LineOf7s]

If only there was something else - ANYTHING else - about the Pyra we could talk about apart from a wireless modem chip and how it may or may not be used by the world powers to secretly spy on the couple of thousand geeks in the world who pick up a Linux-based handheld no-one will have ever heard about.

Buckle those tinfoil hats down tight, people.

Sheesh.

This is such an amazingly worthy topic maybe it should be split off into its own thread, like every other bit of absurdist bikeshedding going on at the moment?

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

So a modular P2 afterall... Just what I wanted.

 

[_jr_]

I may have misunderstood everything in the pricing thread, but it seems we are not talking about 50€ vs. 100€. There has to be (nearly) a 100% markup, make it 100€ vs. 200€.

 

[Eight Bit]

I for one think it's a great idea to have a led that shows when data is coming in or going out. It doesn't have to be big or bright, a very small dot would be sufficient, preferably on the side of the case or something so that it won't be annoying when watching a streaming movie in the dark.

I also really like the daughterboard and storage solutions Ed came up with. I have full confidence in Ed's judgement here!

Now shut up and take my money!

 

[thatgui]

The only thing I can point out is that the modules are German manufacture and it's the US government that was caught spying on everyone via their phones, with the German government getting extremely upset over this. It seems highly unlikely that a German manufacturer would provide any backdoors at the request of the US and risk blowback from their own government.

You can cut the extremely, and they where only upset, because they thought the general population wanted them to - they knew that already for a long time.
As long as I'm able to turn the module of (software wise) I'm fine with that as I am more worried about movement tracking than the system (or some software) going "rogue". And if one is still worried (as me and others have already mentioned) a dip switch would be an easy solution (somewhere under the battery compartment, operateable with the stylus).

A indicator LED would be nice, just to see that the module is working, but I could see that merged with the status LEDs für WLAN and Bluetooth into a "general" wireless indicator, as further details - like which one is on - are already shown through software.

I still think a gyroscope/tilt sensor would be nice.

This was never mentioned again though. Is it still plausible?

I would like that too

 

[EvilDragon]

Yes, we were thinking of a dipswitch to disable the module completely as well - but then you'd need to shutdown the Pyra, remove the battery, flip the switch and reboot before you can use the modem... that would be a bit annoying, don't you think?

That's why we thought of an indicator in case the module is powered up instead of a killswitch.

About 3G/4G:

The issue is not the module (even though the price is nigh double), the issue is the antenna.

It needs to cover quite a bit more frequencies and needs more space... 

 

[thatgui]

Yes, we were thinking of a dipswitch to disable the module completely as well - but then you'd need to shutdown the Pyra, remove the battery, flip the switch and reboot before you can use the modem... that would be a bit annoying, don't you think?

I thought of it more as a compromise for those that want to make sure the module is "dead". Altough I put the infamous hat on sometimes, a software only solution would be sufficient for me.
What about gyro/tilt - room for that ?

 

[jktm140887]

So the 805 is out of the question?


Bummer...

Unless you're fine with a battery life of 1 - 2 hours, probably yes

Snapdragon 805 version of Note 3 might launch later this year  :huh:

 

[WizardStan]

that would be a bit annoying, don't you think?

That's why we thought of an indicator in case the module is powered up instead of a killswitch.

This is a major concern for the people requesting it. They are legitimately worried about their game console being used to track them. If it sits in their pocket or backpack or wherever 90% of the day where they cannot see the indicator light then that's 90% of the day where they can be tracked without their knowledge. These people are used to going to extremes to protect themselves. Someone a couple pages back suggested going as far as physically cutting the traces, actually breaking the thing to prevent it from transmitting, and then resoldering it when they wanted to use it.A switch behind the battery may be a bit annoying, but compared to the extreme measures I've seen some people go through to try and hide themselves it's nothing.

The issue is not the module (even though the price is nigh double), the issue is the antenna.

Something still seems not right about that, but I'm not a radio engineer, I'll have to do a lot more research.

 

[_wb_]

Just make it easy to disable/enable in software, and have indicator icons in the taskbar or whatever for wifi/BT/3G. I don't need extra indicator leds, and certainly not leds that cannot be controlled in software. I don't care how dim they are, they still consume some power and in total darkness they are still annoying.

Do you know that disabling the power led on the Pandora gives you about 1 day extra of standby time?

 

[pmprog]

Yes, we were thinking of a dipswitch to disable the module completely as well

I like this. Doesn't matter about the power down. It doesn't take too long to switch off, remove the battery and reboot on a Pandora, and I don't expect the Pyra to be much different.

 

[mclien]

We need free software to control/monitor the module. That's enough. If say the Linux kernel is compromised we are fucked anyway, I've already said this and I can't repeat it enough.

+1

very paranoid: no module

paranoid: GPIO switch from kernel

 

[Granitehead]

Yes, we were thinking of a dipswitch to disable the module completely as well - but then you'd need to shutdown the Pyra, remove the battery, flip the switch and reboot before you can use the modem... that would be a bit annoying, don't you think?

That's why we thought of an indicator in case the module is powered up instead of a killswitch.

About 3G/4G:

The issue is not the module (even though the price is nigh double), the issue is the antenna.

It needs to cover quite a bit more frequencies and needs more space... 

Of course an indicator makes sense. But it should be (free) software controlled. That way you can preconfigure it to record on/off statistics, make noise when it turns on though it shouldn't be or stuff like that. That should satisfy the paranoid people as long as they still think rationally. But it would also satisfy the non-paranoid people because they would get an extra software controlled LED they could use for anything they want.

(same for WiFi, SD cards, etc LED indicators. All need to be software controlled)