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Release new bare-bones web repo / mirror

Discussion in 'Software Releases' started by sswam, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. sswam

    sswam Advanced Member

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    I added a page, offering a ScummVM Swag for $300.


    http://blah.pandoria.org/shop.html


    [ edit: I better go buy those games myself now, so I can play them and build the PNDs! ]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2012
  2. kaprikawn

    kaprikawn Member

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    My google-fu is faliling me, could anyone give me a rsync command to sync the pnd directory (that will update newer versions in future if I run it again).


    And before I do it, is it cool to sync the entire directory? I would say that I'd do it overnight, but I'm in the UK so my overnight is your daytime presumably.
     
  3. sswam

    sswam Advanced Member

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    It would be cool to sync the pnd directory, but I don't have anon rsync access set up yet.


    I can do that, good idea.


    Meanwhile, you can use some http mirror tool such as wget:


    wget -m http://pandoria.org/pnd/


    http://fosswire.com/...site-with-wget/


    PNDs do sometimes seem to rsync efficiently between different versions, that surprised me. Maybe because squashfs compresses each block separately.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2012
  4. sswam

    sswam Advanced Member

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    Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I will ask Wally to move this conversation to another thread.

    I'm not doing it like that. My customers receive the original new media / license key / download links for each game, directly. This "order placement" part of the service is certainly legal.


    I want to provide pre-baked PND images along with the games.


    The same images that my customers could legally create for themselves using a script.


    On a scale of possible copyright violations, this is a pretty minor one, and I'm willing to risk it.


    - I am generating additional sales for the game. Game dev is happy.


    - The customer paid for a license to play that game.


    - The customer could legally build the identical PND himself.


    - I could legally build the identical PND for my customer at his house.


    - I'm just saving myself and my customer a little time and effort. Everyone happy.


    I really admire Terry, Pickle, and our other game devs.


    I am trying to do something good here that could benefit the community.


    Unfortunately, I did not explain it very well.


    At the moment, I am not going to make any profit from this.


    It would be reasonable to charge for my time and effort, I might do that at some stage.
     
  5. milkshake

    milkshake Advanced Member

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    ok why not provide or sell the script to the user so it can convert the separate data files/pnd into one PND file? that way you are avoiding any misunderstanding.
     
  6. ekianjo

    ekianjo Hardcore Member

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    Yeah I am rather worried about that kind of thing. If one want to destroy any hope of future code conversion to Pandora, that's the right way to do it!


    Not recommended.
     
  7. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm also strongly against this without contacting the authors first!


    Even if you buy the game, the original developer has no idea knowing how many you really sold and will be pissed off.


    Why don't you offer the original dev to pack the PND together with the datafiles and put it on the repo using HIS PayPal data?


    Then he would directly get the money from the sales and that's it.


    If he doesn't agree, don't do it.


    Same for other apps and devs: Don't do this without permission, otherwise this will just lead to bad blood...


    Geca just removed DRM from PolloPollo as the community likes buying games without DRM. I am really happy about that move and will support it as good as I can.


    If you think your idea is good, explain it to the original devs and if they think it's good too, you're free to contonue :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2012
  8. onpon4

    onpon4 Sharing is good.

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    Yes, you are, not by any choice of your own, but because, by the very nature of computers, any sort of data transfer in a computer involves copying. For example, the common "move" command in operating systems copies the file and then deletes the data in the original location; this is actually what I was referring to with my DVD analogy.
     
  9. ShleeDragon

    ShleeDragon Pro-Catflip

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    This whole idea is pretty fucking stupid. Our job should be to consider the original IP owner to allow us to offer it.


    We shouldn't consider middlemaning anything
     
  10. onpon4

    onpon4 Sharing is good.

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    Copyright holder. There's no reason to bring trademarks and patents into the discussion. ;)


    I disagree with you, actually. "Middlemen" can make things potentially easier for authors. As long as the copyright holder agrees with it (or the software in question is free software), I see nothing wrong with it.
     
  11. ShleeDragon

    ShleeDragon Pro-Catflip

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    yay capitalism
     
  12. javaJake

    javaJake Jacob Godserv

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    You are trolling. Some of us here happen to agree with capitalism and disagree with DREDD.
     
  13. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    Just to be pedantic, a move on the same drive typically just redirects the file pointer so it appears in the new location instantly, no copying required. The only time you need to copy/delete is when moving to a different drive or partition.
     
  14. ekianjo

    ekianjo Hardcore Member

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    Dredd, if you proceed with your plan without contacting the authors I think you should be expecting that someone DOES contact the authors at some point and you should be ready to face the trouble. Honestly if you are 100% confident that what you are doing is legal, let the authors sell the games themselves. If they are not doing it they must have a good reason to do so.


    You are not an official reseller or anything, and you have no right or reselling the licenses this way because no-one can verify that you are not reusing the same license everytime, making profit out of it. The only way one can ensure this is fair is by letting the authors sell it themselves.
     
  15. onpon4

    onpon4 Sharing is good.

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    Yeah, thanks for the correction on that.


    In any case, uploading or downloading a file is itself copying.
     
  16. sswam

    sswam Advanced Member

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    Thank-you for a constructive suggestion, milkshake.


    Yes, I will provide the scripts as public domain code, free of charge. I will include needed tools, make them user-friendly, and port them to windows. These scripts might be useful to people who already bought the games, or for some reason don't want to support my evil PND store. I will also offer the PNDs for direct download to people who bought the game through me, unless someone slaps me with a DMCA notice or whatever. They would have to make a purchase first in order to obtain evidence of my misdemeanour.

    I did contact Terry first. He's not interested to do this or anything else with VVVVVV at the moment, he's busy writing Super Hexagon. I mentioned my idea to do a re-sale / packaging service. He neither granted nor denied permission to do that, he doesn't have time to bother with small-fry idiots like me. (my words, not his)


    If you don't like my scheme, I don't doubt you will vote with your wallet and boycott my ridiculous shop! Or, you can give my 1GHz Pandora some dead pixels as a punishment or something. I expect no less evilness from the EvilDragon! :)


    I didn't notify the repo commercial game authors yet. I don't need their permission to re-sell unmodified PNDs. Milkshake has implemented a "gift" function on the repo which should make it easier and less controversial, no "illegal copying" involved.

    I thought you were supposed to be an evil dragon? Ah well, the houses of evil divide against themselves!


    In fact the original developers will know how many I sold, because they can see all the "gifts" I gave in their database. I will also contact them to let them know, in the unlikely event that I do sell a significant number of bundles. I expect they would be happy to have a few more sales.


    Who ever got pissed off that he shipped some more product?


    If you're concerned that I will give away the PNDs for free, well that's silly because anyone can do that, and I'm specifically promising not to do that, and it would ruin my already tarnished reputation.


    When GOG sells a game, do they have to explain in detail to random third parties (not even customers!) how their business works? I'm trying to do this in the best way I can, for all invovled. I have not even sold any games yet, and yet here I am being interrogated, and even insulted by the loose cannons among us. Clearly I should have written a FAQ in advance, but who knows how people will react?

    Yes of course it would be better to do it that way. If the original dev had the time and inclination to fuck about with this trivial market, and this old game, he would do so - or not. It would certainly be preferable, and I would do that where possible. In this case, the original dev is busy working on his new games and doesn't care to talk about VVVVVV or Open Pandora with me at the moment.


    As another example, I intend to package "I have no mouth, and I must scream" by Harlan Ellison. Mr Ellison likely does not give a crap about Open Pandora, but on the off-chance that he is interested, I will offer for him to host the PND on the repo directly as you said. If he's not interested, I'll do it myself according to my re-sale / re-package scheme; but probably not on the repo, it would violate the terms of service as I don't own the content.

    Yes, it's good. I bought the game already before, and made a donation to say thanks.

    It would be pretty damn stupid to sue an honest re-seller, who is only bringing you new business and making your software more accessible on an uncommon platform.

    Thank-you, I will take any such ill-mannered insult as a compliment.

    This level of ignorance is really depressing.

    Did you know, a book-seller does not need the permission of the copyright holder to re-sell a book? And he especially does not need the permission of a gaggle of acquaintances who neither sell, write nor publish the book he will be re-selling!


    And neither do I need permission from the author to re-sell a video game. In the case of digital copies it can be unclear, however courts have ruled in favour of consumer rights rather than ridiculous EULAs.


    I can legally re-sell VVVVVV in a bundle with 2 other games for $10,000 and no person has anything to complain about. It's called trade, it's called a market. Not that I'm doing this, no one would buy it. In the case of VVVVVV, it's particularly easy, and clearly legal to "re-sell" VVVVVV by means of their "gift" option. Our repo now has a "gift" option that I requested for this purpose; thanks very much to milkshake for coding this over the weekend.


    The only thing I am doing which might be questionable, is to put the software into a PND filesystem. I consider this to be fair use, it's the best way to play these games on our platform. If you don't like it, vote with your wallet and don't buy my bundles.

    Yay for open markets and free trade.


    Someone else mailed me, and told me what I am doing is wrong because I am not allowed to resell open source software. That was wrong on two counts:


    1. the software I am re-selling is not open source


    2. anyone is allowed to re-sell DFSG-free open source software at any price, make compilations of it, etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2012
  17. ekianjo

    ekianjo Hardcore Member

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    It's not because you do not get an answer or that someone is not interested to make a PND that it makes it legal and RIGHT to do what you plan to do. You are just ripping other people's work without their authorization. Why you are at it, why don't you package PCSXReArmed with roms and sell it ?


    Seriously, you are asking to be banned.
     
  18. ekianjo

    ekianjo Hardcore Member

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    Please remove Pandoraclock from your server. I own that application and I am only distributing it through the repo. I did not authorize any other means of distribution and there are specific reasons for that (I give additional instructions in the repo how to use it, for example).


    Distributing PNDs in the wild without any consideration of their authors is not the right thing to do, either.


    Hope you will take action based on my request.
     
  19. LineOf7s

    LineOf7s Active Member

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    It begins.


    (an observation, not a criticism)
     
  20. zLouD

    zLouD Still Fresh

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    Hi people,


    may I ask how many of you are interested of a commercial pandora games bundle and how many just don't give a shit about it but have to join this shitstorm anyways?


    It's actually a good idea to have such a thing as a commercial bundle and with this people who maintain this (as much as possible).


    That's what i have to say for now, lets see how far this discussion gets.
     

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