Negotiations With Chinese Factory


goonaman

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Is the contract with the Chinese mould company able to be re-negotiated or can Open Pandora ask for any refunds on money paid? Were any timescales laid out in the original contract? It's just that we don't know any real details and I appreciate that the team may not know much more. Unfortunately it looks as though they've got the full payment and are now just fitting in the work around other projects so there isn't so much incentive because there's no more money due or milestones set. Are Craigix and Mweston able to ask for any compensation or get a cheaper price for the next run because of targets missed. I know you're putting your own money into the project aswell so you deserve to get some money back if the mould company are not performing properly. None of this is a criticism of anyone or a 'Where's my PANDORA?!!!' thread just wondering if the team are frustrated with the mould company taking a long time when they've already been paid.
 
Hmm..
I don't know if I'm right, but I think one of the reasons the OP team hesitates to give info(see MWeston's disclaimer in his awesome post) is, that large chains of speculation follow those infos. Most of what you ask could be described as "confidential company stuff" so I doubt you will get an answer.
 
Well, in theory, mp cases could be 2 weeks away. In reality, they may end up months away, but at this point changing factories, or moving to another facility doesn't look like a real good idea at this point. I don't know what was said or promised to the team in original meetings, and or contracts. So no one can really say the factory isn't delivering as promised.

To start this process over from the begining could only cost more money, and take several months more to complete, at this point it's best to just ride the wave. Once the 10,000 cases are done, maybe the team can change to another facility, but that will be there decision based on the "Facts" of doing business with the current factory. I think this device will be crazy popular once it's released, and can only lead to many more units down the line, and hopefully in the long run, it will provide the team with know how and finances to make a similar and more powerful product down the road. I know the team isn't looking for DS or PSP sucess, but 100,000 units over time would be great and still be very possible on a small scale.


Chris
 
I do wonder whether we would all be posting these replies from our pandoras right now, if a European factory had been used. The price would have been doubled for sure, but this Chinese company actually appear to be taking the piss now.
 
Nice quote summary by Monk:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/51316-offical-blog-when-in-panic-fear-or-doubt/page__view__findpost__p__796231
 
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You need to understand the cases are near perfect, and a lot of other companies would have just gone with them, but we want them closer to perfect because we don't want to waste money on a redesign 6 months later (Nintendo style).

We could never have used a European company, it would have been hundreds of thousands of dollars - and almost all of them just contract their work to China.
 
I understand. I'm not really having a go at OP, I just needed to vent a bit about the further case delays, just as I do when the bus is late and I suddenly become the foremost expert on public transport without having any of the facts.
 
I didn't mean about changing the mould company and I like the attitude of getting the best possible quality so I don't mind waiting. Just wondered if in future Open Pandora could get a better deal with the same company but maybe the level of quality just takes much longer and there are always issues like this with producing moulds and cases. DroneB knows a lot about plastics manufacturing so it's always useful to hear from him.
Thanks to the team for all the info we've had recently anyway
 
I think that the lesson learnt here is that perfecting case molds takes way longer then expected and next time these molds must be started on much earlier, of course the problem lies in knowing exactly how the cases must be shaped to hold everything perfectly on the inside. With everything learnt on Pandora 1 the development process of Pandora 2 should be shorter overall.
 
Awakening said:
I think that the lesson learnt here is that perfecting case molds takes way longer then expected and next time these molds must be started on much earlier, of course the problem lies in knowing exactly how the cases must be shaped to hold everything perfectly on the inside. With everything learnt on Pandora 1 the development process of Pandora 2 should be shorter overall.
Agreed, apart from the fact that the mould company should have a reasonable idea of how long it should take.
 
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I think a big problem is a lot of mould companies would not expect to have to deliver such a level of perfection as we want.

It's very geeky I suppose, somewhere like Sony might be anal about the shininess of the case, but we are more interested in fractions of mm on the inside.
 
craigix said:
I think a big problem is a lot of mould companies would not expect to have to deliver such a level of perfection as we want.

It's very geeky I suppose, somewhere like Sony might be anal about the shininess of the case, but we are more interested in fractions of mm on the inside.
I do DS and PSP case mods from time to time, and all the after market cases I get, are close to originals but not exactly perfect. Sometimes screw holes aren't right, or the cases may have a little curve here and there. The average consumer would never notice them, but I see every little differance between the two.

So I can understand the want and need for perfection, and how good these cases can look to the majority, and how they still need minor things fixed. I'm sure the mould company didn't expect the level of quality that has been pushed for, as I'm sure they are used to getting close, and that is normally good enough for most!


Chris
 
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jumpman said:
craigix said:
I think a big problem is a lot of mould companies would not expect to have to deliver such a level of perfection as we want.

It's very geeky I suppose, somewhere like Sony might be anal about the shininess of the case, but we are more interested in fractions of mm on the inside.
I do DS and PSP case mods from time to time, and all the after market cases I get, are close to originals but not exactly perfect. Sometimes screw holes aren't right, or the cases may have a little curve here and there. The average consumer would never notice them, but I see every little differance between the two.

So I can understand the want and need for perfection, and how good these cases can look to the majority, and how they still need minor things fixed. I'm sure the mould company didn't expect the level of quality that has been pushed for, as I'm sure they are used to getting close, and that is normally good enough for most!


Chris

That's exactly what we think. They thought we would just be ok with slight differences, but the Pandora is so well packed in to that box that it has to be exactly right, this isn't a Chinese PMP with loads of room inside it, every last mm is carefully planned out.

At least once we have it done we can use the same case for, say, a Pandora2 in the future.
 
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craigix said:
At least once we have it done we can use the same case for, say, a Pandora2 in the future.

I really hope not, that means we would be stuck with a lot of things being the same. I would love to see other improvements on top of power for the next generation of Pandoras.
 
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Awakening said:
craigix said:
At least once we have it done we can use the same case for, say, a Pandora2 in the future.

I really hope not, that means we would be stuck with a lot of things being the same. I would love to see other improvements on top of power for the next generation of Pandoras.
Well, since I haven't actually held and used one yet, I can't really say for sure, but the style, qwerty kb, screen, button layout, dual analog nubs, ect. all actually seem perfect for me and my main uses for this device. The only thing I can really see needing to be changed in the future would be the processor of course, and maybe a better quality screen, and even that may not need changing! Just my opinion of course!

Chris
 
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Oh well, I think the Chinese have benefit too in this way. No middleman(europe) selling orders at a higher price.
They can be the middleman themselves from this learning process.


:)
 
jumpman said:
Awakening said:
craigix said:
At least once we have it done we can use the same case for, say, a Pandora2 in the future.

I really hope not, that means we would be stuck with a lot of things being the same. I would love to see other improvements on top of power for the next generation of Pandoras.
Well, since I haven't actually held and used one yet, I can't really say for sure, but the style, qwerty kb, screen, button layout, dual analog nubs, ect. all actually seem perfect for me and my main uses for this device. The only thing I can really see needing to be changed in the future would be the processor of course, and maybe a better quality screen, and even that may not need changing! Just my opinion of course!

Chris
That implies that no components, board layout design will need to be changed. When better components/and or cheaper parts could be available. Especially if it's as tight as Craig says, even less likely possible.
 
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jumpman said:
Well, since I haven't actually held and used one yet, I can't really say for sure, but the style, qwerty kb, screen, button layout, dual analog nubs, ect. all actually seem perfect for me and my main uses for this device. The only thing I can really see needing to be changed in the future would be the processor of course, and maybe a better quality screen, and even that may not need changing! Just my opinion of course!

Chris
4 shoulder buttons.
 
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intense_mc said:
jumpman said:
Well, since I haven't actually held and used one yet, I can't really say for sure, but the style, qwerty kb, screen, button layout, dual analog nubs, ect. all actually seem perfect for me and my main uses for this device. The only thing I can really see needing to be changed in the future would be the processor of course, and maybe a better quality screen, and even that may not need changing! Just my opinion of course!

Chris
4 shoulder buttons.

Pandora SLI :D
 
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Personally I would love a larger screen with a higher resolution so it's easier to use the Pandora for things other then games. And maybe 3g hardware would be inexpensive enough to add, that's one feature we will be seeing in a lot of netbooks this year and the years to come and I believe a lot of people outside this community will be looking for.
 
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