More numbers, late again :) (2011 - 04 - 05)

[darfgarf]

when I'm practiced up with a soldering iron

actually that should be 'when i'm extremely practiced with reflow soldering techniques, and can reliably de-flow the ram bgs from the cpu bga, then reflow a new one ontop (this is ignoring pin compatability issues etc), just replacing a bga with the same chip is enough of a pain, and at least takes a few hundred worth of equipment (or a paint gun if you're going ghetto i guess)

 

[Granitehead]

And 400-whatever MHz? My phone clocks faster than that, and it's not an expensive smartphone, it's an £80 Nokia from the local O2 shop.

Actually 600Mhz and it can be overclocked up to 1Ghz if you're lucky.

 

[Niksta]

...


It surely is outdated. One reason I ordered was that the Pandora would have been the first OMAP3-device.


Well, when I get it, it is the last


...

Well, since the first OMAP4 device is yet to be released and will not fit in your pocket, I think you can live with that.

 

[neko]

But 256MB ain't enough.

It is.

It's not enough for Firefox.


And if Craig was selling a Pandora with more RAM, I would buy it.

 

[WizardStan]

It's not enough for Firefox.

I'd argue it is. 256MB is more than enough physical ram to display a couple of tabs, and if you enable swap, unused images, pages, and whole tabs will be removed from ram to free up enough for what you're actually doing, at only a fraction of a second increased time cost.


I'd also argue that the problem you're trying to solve is "browse the web" for which Firefox is the sledgehammer to the nail. Personally I use Midori.

 

[neko]

I'd also argue that the problem you're trying to solve is "browse the web" for which Firefox is the sledgehammer to the nail. Personally I use Midori.

I do use Midori, but it has limited CSS support and renders some sites poorly. So sometimes I need a full-featured browser.

 

[coreyjohnson711]

any idea when we can expect another update? Am thinking about going ahead and ordering a premium if I don't have my pandora when I graduate

 

[Atownaction]

Well I finally got my pandora and I have to tell you guys this is a well thought out device. If everyone got their pandoras they would not talk about hardware specs it is a masterpiece you cant even compare to any other devices out there Im sorry I thought that by the time I got it, It would have been outdated but when you get it you cant even say that type of stuff about its great and I am letting Team Pandora know that when the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc... generation pandora comes out I will be there with my preorder waiting...I love this device handsdown!!! Im so glad I upgraded to premimum!!!

 

[Poem58]

...


It surely is outdated. One reason I ordered was that the Pandora would have been the first OMAP3-device.


Well, when I get it, it is the last


...

Well, since the first OMAP4 device is yet to be released and will not fit in your pocket, I think you can live with that.

a quick google search shows at least one. LG Optimus 3D phone, with dual core 1Ghz Omap4 and 1GB ram, looks like it will fit in your pocket too. Appears to have been released in March as Engadget had a hands on and listings of it's names at different service providers (called Thrill 4G for AT&T)


However, as a game emulator, video player, music player and have the ability to learn to program on it while seeing games and apps created by those who know how to program, I see nothing wrong with the Pandora's specs even if it isn't the "fastest" anymore. Besides, I don't want a cellphone, so none of these faster machines have any use to me. Would I have liked to have it sooner? Oh yeah, but as long as it gets here and preferably sooner than later, it will be as good for what I wanted it for when I bought it as it will be when I get it.


When I played Scribblenaughts for the first time on a DS, I never thought, "Wow the PSP I used to own was so much faster, I can't use this antiquated machine.(although it died, RIP old DS Phat)" Instead I enjoyed it for what it was. I believe everything has a place, that may or may not be for you, but if it exists, someone wanted it. If not it fails and is replaced by something else. Keep in mind, even the worst consumer products, game systems, foods, etc. Has someone that liked them. If you don't like the idea of eating squid, there's no reason to complain about the squid, just cause you decided you'd rather have lobster.

 

[Poem58]

...


It surely is outdated. One reason I ordered was that the Pandora would have been the first OMAP3-device.


Well, when I get it, it is the last


...

Well, since the first OMAP4 device is yet to be released and will not fit in your pocket, I think you can live with that.

a quick google search shows at least one. LG Optimus 3D phone, with dual core 1Ghz Omap4 and 1GB ram, looks like it will fit in your pocket too. Appears to have been released in March as Engadget had a hands on and listings of it's names at different service providers (called Thrill 4G for AT&T)


However, as a game emulator, video player, music player and have the ability to learn to program on it while seeing games and apps created by those who know how to program, I see nothing wrong with the Pandora's specs even if it isn't the "fastest" anymore. Besides, I don't want a cellphone, so none of these faster machines have any use to me. Would I have liked to have it sooner? Oh yeah, but as long as it gets here and preferably sooner than later, it will be as good for what I wanted it for when I bought it as it will be when I get it.


When I played Scribblenaughts for the first time on a DS, I never thought, "Wow the PSP I used to own was so much faster, I can't use this antiquated machine!" Instead I enjoyed it for what it was. I believe everything has a place, that may or may not be for you, but if it exists, someone wanted it. If not it fails and is replaced by something else. Keep in mind, even the worst consumer products, game systems, foods, etc. Has someone that liked them or at least bought them. If the waiter tells you there's an extra wait for squid, there's no reason to complain about the squid, just cause you decided you'd rather not wait and just have the lobster.

 

[Timstertoo]

...


It surely is outdated. One reason I ordered was that the Pandora would have been the first OMAP3-device.


Well, when I get it, it is the last


...

Well, since the first OMAP4 device is yet to be released and will not fit in your pocket, I think you can live with that.

a quick google search shows at least one. LG Optimus 3D phone, with dual core 1Ghz Omap4 and 1GB ram, looks like it will fit in your pocket too. Appears to have been released in March as Engadget had a hands on and listings of it's names at different service providers (called Thrill 4G for AT&T)


However, as a game emulator, video player, music player and have the ability to learn to program on it while seeing games and apps created by those who know how to program, I see nothing wrong with the Pandora's specs even if it isn't the "fastest" anymore. Besides, I don't want a cellphone, so none of these faster machines have any use to me. Would I have liked to have it sooner? Oh yeah, but as long as it gets here and preferably sooner than later, it will be as good for what I wanted it for when I bought it as it will be when I get it.


When I played Scribblenaughts for the first time on a DS, I never thought, "Wow the PSP I used to own was so much faster, I can't use this antiquated machine!" Instead I enjoyed it for what it was. I believe everything has a place, that may or may not be for you, but if it exists, someone wanted it. If not it fails and is replaced by something else. Keep in mind, even the worst consumer products, game systems, foods, etc. Has someone that liked them or at least bought them. If the waiter tells you there's an extra wait for squid, there's no reason to complain about the squid, just cause you decided you'd rather not wait and just have the lobster.

My wife has it. Great phone. Somehow I'm having a hard time dealing with the fact her phone kicks my phones ass even though I ordered it for her. :blink: (I have a Milestone 2 at the moment, waiting for a dual core Android with a physical keyboard)


I think the Optimus probably fits in the Pandora. So if you could just send me the case with the appropriate connections inside I can just slide and click it in and we can skip the whole board manufacturing bit.


I say it in jest but how cool would it be if you would be able to build an exterior that you can put a phone in through a cartridge or so. So the cartridge is the same size so it always fits in the Pandora but you just get a new cartrdidge when you buy a new phone as obviously you'll have to deal with the new form factor of the phone.


Probably derailing this thread, please ignore all of the above! :rolleyes:

 

[vadsamoht]

^ Why not just simplify the whole thing, and just have a replaceable CPU unit?

 

[Timstertoo]

Probably because that's too simple!


No, because you can still take the phone out and use it. And use the phone functions when it's in his shell. Also you could buy different shells depending on how you want to use it at that time.


Mind you, I'm not burdened by any form of technical knowledge so it's probably not as easy to do, or simply impossible, as I suck it out of my thumb here.


Sent from my MotoA953 using Tapatalk

 

[Batou456]

Given how complex the Pandora board is what you're proposing seems questionable, and is in the paradigm of the iControlPad more then the Pandora. Not to say something along those lines isn't feasible, but it ignores the entire point of having a GNU/Linux handheld which the Pandora is as much about as anything.


What might be possible along those lines is SO-DIMM ARM packages, provided that movement actually takes off, but I doubt that'd be particularly easy without increasing the size of the unit.

 

[marktuson]

Given how complex the Pandora board is what you're proposing seems questionable, and is in the paradigm of the iControlPad more then the Pandora. Not to say something along those lines isn't feasible, but it ignores the entire point of having a GNU/Linux handheld which the Pandora is as much about as anything.


What might be possible along those lines is SO-DIMM ARM packages, provided that movement actually takes off, but I doubt that'd be particularly easy without increasing the size of the unit.

Make Pandora-2 expandable, then? Make it so that there's a CPU/RAM board that can be disconnected from the unit and replaced when an upgrade is released? Have the terminal, NAND, USB/SD ports, speakers &c in one unit... then if a CPU upgrade is released, or bigger RAM, upgrades can made and sold without having to remake millions of new units.


But still, meh. This has been the longest Two Months of my life.

 

[vadsamoht]

I donth think this was meant as a real suggestion for the P2, just a general comment on phones. My comment, at least, was just meant to say that it would probably be cheaper (and less wasteful) to just update the CPU of a handheld once it becomes incrementally out of date rther than the whole thing (as most people currently do). personally, I'm fine with my phone that just makes calls and sends text messages. After all, I;m getting a Pandora for everything else!

 

[Datalore]

Hi Seamus, try to avoid a heart attack there. wouldn't want you to need those little white pills for under the tongue. the wait is killing, we all know that. i waited for over three years and there were enough moments that i considered asking for a refund. I also had my doubts about the one nubbers wich made people skip the queue and the premium orders.


All members of OPT are doing everything they can to finish this job as good and as fast as possible. I received my unit (no premium, no one nubber) last week. All i can say is that the wait was hell but very well worth it. hang on, you're waiting two years now. there are a few options.


1: opt out and get a refund (i can guarantee you dont really want to do this now the project is so close to finishing. You've managed to wait for two years now, the last few weeks are the hardest but when you finally get to tinker with pandora's box you'll be glad to have waited just this little bit longer.)


2: go for premium and get a pandora within a week.


3: just wait, hang in there and don't risk opting out just before your order is about to ship. The moment you receive a mail that your order is sent will be a huge relief.

 

[may88]

@Datalore - Nice first post. May I ask when you ordered?

 

[craigix]

A Pandora2 would obviously not use the OMAP4 as we will want to use the latest tech again, only bring it to market far far faster (as we did with the iCP orders to shipping time).

 

[wardred]

My comment, at least, was just meant to say that it would probably be cheaper (and less wasteful) to just update the CPU of a handheld once it becomes incrementally out of date.

vadsamoht,


While this works well with desktops, as you get smaller it becomes more problematical to do this...especially given the turn over times of consoles - and not just the OpenPandora. How many years have the DS and PSP been out there? I could see an incremental update to a faster CURRENT GEN CPU if TI stopped making the 500mhz part and had a drop in replacement for it, but it'd still be a "current gen" Pandora, it just wouldn't have to be OCd to play some of the current emulators.


With the system the OpenPandora team is working with, the CPU, GPU, RAM, and maybe some other stuff are all soldered together in a "Package On a Package" format - POP. It makes it very difficult to separate one thing from the other, and even "simple" upgrades on a desktop may not be pin/voltage/or what have you compatible. I think the trade off for this restrictive design are severalfold - size, probably energy consumption, and possibly speed as everything's right on top of each other rather than spread all over the motherboard.


The other problem you run into is by the time a P2 is seriously being considered ALL the main components of the current Pandora's board will be out of date, not just the CPU. The wifi might not be, or some of the other on board components, but certainly the memory, CPU, GPU, and Vector math units all will be, and mixing and matching new CPU / old gen memory, etc. architecture often has bad consequences even on desktop PCs, for instance the CPU having to wait longer than it was really designed for for that old, slow ram to respond.


We'll probably also want changes to the board too. For instance at the time the Pandora was produced, the current solution for video out is what most seemed to want. By the time a P2 is really out we'll all probably want DVI out. My P2 plugged directly into my large, flatscreen TV? Yes please!


Unless I'm terribly mistaken a P2 isn't in the cards for two years at least, and if OpenPandora can continue moving the current generation Pandoras, it might be longer than that - assuming they decide to go forward with that venture at all.


My take on it.