Miku Manor

[FaeMinx]

It's strange that you seem to think so lowly of me.

I don't think lowly of you. I apologise if you took my attack on human relationships, being hurt by people in particular, as a personal attack.

To achieve it the person has to hurt itself and to sense that I need to see the character beyond my personal expectations.

Please could you explain this in more detail.


You are hurt when a person you care about does something that appears to be self damaging, and you are hurt when you realize there is more to the person and their circumstances than you have up until that point grasped?


I can understand that.


I guess I have great comfort and solace in knowing that all experiences seemingly good or bad are all perfectly orchestrated and necessary. I myself went through a hugely destructive phase of my life, one from which I saw no hope of recovery at the time. Now, after my eyes have been opened I see how absolutely necessary it was. When I see people in a phase of self destruction... I don't think to myself that what I am seeing is bad. More often than not I actually see it as a blessing. When I see people trying to hold onto aspects of their lives or struggling to hold it together... the prayer I send is for things to fall apart sooner rather than later. I have such an appreciation for 'the bad times' that I think it would be cruel an unfair to protect people from experiencing them.


If the destruction leads to death, that is no great concern of mine as I don't see it as 'the end'. If it happens, it is necessary.

Having the delusion of absolutely knowing oneself (as if it were static) and the delusion of seeing through all humans completely is the usual problem of those who think they have grown beyond everything, because they indeed have grown (more like compressed their chosen personality treats in my perception) a fair bit.


I can still sense the bitterness quite clearly and am not surprised.

I don't know myself absolutely, I only have hints of knowing. But I do know that knowing myself is more important than anything else... I should focus all my energies on that journey of discovery.


I probably am too dismissive of humans. No doubt there is more of value in most of them than I have the patience to uncover.


I haven't grown beyond everything, I am simply aspiring to.


Yes, there is still a lot of bitterness in me, that I am trying to work through.


What does 'compressed their personality traits' mean?


=~. O =

 

[rygD]

Hey everyone, I brought cookies!

 

[Null]

And I've brought a ca... hang on where's the rest of it gone? :mellow:

 

[Klumpen]

To achieve it the person has to hurt itself and to sense that I need to see the character beyond my personal expectations.

Please could you explain this in more detail.


You are hurt when a person you care about does something that appears to be self damaging


I can understand that.


I guess I have great comfort and solace in knowing that all experiences seemingly good or bad are all perfectly orchestrated and necessary. I myself went through a hugely destructive phase of my life, one from which I saw no hope of recovery at the time. Now, after my eyes have been opened I see how absolutely necessary it was. When I see people in a phase of self destruction... I don't think to myself that what I am seeing is bad. More often than not I actually see it as a blessing. When I see people trying to hold onto aspects of their lives or struggling to hold it together... the prayer I send is for things to fall apart sooner rather than later. I have such an appreciation for 'the bad times' that I think it would be cruel an unfair to protect people from experiencing them.


If the destruction leads to death, that is no great concern of mine as I don't see it as 'the end'. If it happens, it is necessary.

Yes, for me it's sometimes hard to convince myself, that this is really neccessary, probably because I see self inflicted damage as a lot worse and effecting more long term than damage received because of selfish decisions of others.

and you are hurt when you realize there is more to the person and their circumstances than you have up until that point grasped?

No, I just underlined that in order to see self damaging in others you have to see the person as it is and not as you want it to be, which you seem to think every person in a relationship does.

What does 'compressed their personality traits' mean?

Well, people always use the words "growing" when they mean "advancing" or "changing".

For me, growing is not really a good thing. Gathering material or new character traits to be able to fit in is neccessary up to a certain point to survive in this world, but people go way beyond that.

"Compressing their chosen personality traits" because when people really advance they usually get rid of something rather than growing and focus on the important core abilities that they see as good.

 

[rygD]

More sweets!

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Js_F97Kpe_s?feature=oembed

And people wonder why some of us are weird.

 

[Null]

Another food related post.


http://gigazine.net/news/20120813-hatsune-yakisoba/

 

[rygD]

Mine my have featured food, but is meant on a few different levels, especially if that is, in fact, puddin' she is covered in.

Your link doesn't have enough sugar.

 

[Null]

Your link doesn't have enough sugar.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/sugar

 

[Klumpen]

Your link doesn't have enough sugar.

https://www.worldofsweets.de

 

[rygD]

Your link doesn't have enough sugar.

https://www.worldofsweets.de

That's more like it.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Nu3qDNnPKSs?feature=oembed
We have a refrigerator magnet that says "I've never met a chocolate I didn't like".

I don't remember which episode that scene is from, however in Liaisons I think she gets a bit tired of chocolate.

 

[Null]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/qF69HaEaBsM?feature=oembed

 

[rygD]

I am too lazy to post Lego pics.  Just pretend I did.  One of them would have been James May's Lego house.  Maybe Miku would have felt at home there, although it was a full size house.

 

[Null]

Just pretend I did.

 

[Null]

http://www.metafuture.org/Articles/TheRightsofRobots.htm

 

[FaeMinx]

Yes, for me it's sometimes hard to convince myself, that this is really neccessary, probably because I see self inflicted damage as a lot worse and effecting more long term than damage received because of selfish decisions of others.

Some things I really question and wonder what purpose they serve. It is so hard for me to understand or forgive those who take pleasure from torturing animals or people... but then I realize that I have fantasies of torturing the torturers. So in the bigger picture... that's probably me torturing those 'innocents', and who's to say those 'innocents' didn't themselves commit atrocities in another life or form.


So all I can conclude is that everything is necessary, even if the reasons are currently beyond me.


All I can do is work on myself and try to get to a point where I have no desire to punish anyone regardless of what they do.

and you are hurt when you realize there is more to the person and their circumstances than you have up until that point grasped?

No, I just underlined that in order to see self damaging in others you have to see the person as it is and not as you want it to be, which you seem to think every person in a relationship does.

Wait, I'm a little lost now. You feel hurt when someone is being self destructive and you realize that the expectations you had of them were not realistic?


And yes, you are correct (if I'm understanding you, but I'm not so sure)... I have never experienced or observed any relationship where the people involved were actually relating to each other. From my observations, there are always 4 or even 6 or more 'entities' interacting with each other in any 2 person relationship.


But just to be clear... you say that I think that every person in a relationship has a 'concept' of the other person that they basically superimpose on top of the actuality of the other person... and that 'concept' is pretty much a projection of personal bias, judgements, desires, hopes, and needs.


If that's what you mean, then yes. I fully believe that.


And when that 'concept' turns out to be false, that's when people get hurt.


If you say there are relationships that aren't like that, then I'll have to take your word on it.

What does 'compressed their personality traits' mean?

Well, people always use the words "growing" when they mean "advancing" or "changing".


For me, growing is not really a good thing. Gathering material or new character traits to be able to fit in is neccessary up to a certain point to survive in this world, but people go way beyond that.


"Compressing their chosen personality traits" because when people really advance they usually get rid of something rather than growing and focus on the important core abilities that they see as good.

I think I understand what you're describing here, but I'm not certain.


But I'll respond by painting a little picture of myself.


Many years ago, I use to be quite loveable. Funny, talkative, always had a sympathetic ear for my friends and I would go out of my way to help whenever I could. I always tried to see the best in people and overlooked or didn't mention their flaws.


When people got to know me they thought I was wonderful and I also thought I was wonderful and very mature for my age.


But it was an illusion. I didn't realize I was incredibly immature and needy.


I was a people pleaser. I was secretly incredibly insecure even though I regarded myself as such a brilliant wonderful person. I thought I cared about people, but the truth was I only cared about how they regarded me.


There was an unconscious darker side to me that would do anything to 'look good'.


As you can imagine, I managed to wreck all my relationships and my whole world imploded.


I was forced to face all those things about myself I was so much in denial, and over many years I discarded qualities within myself that were based on falsehood.


On the surface it would appear I am less of a person today.


But what I have now are foundations that are sure and stable, built on truth...


I may be socially awkward and have many caustic attitudes towards human nature... but this state of being is infinitely preferable to the nieve BS of the 'child' I use to be.


The social graces and intersocial qualities will come in time... when I am satisfied with my foundations.


=~. O =

 

[rygD]

It is so hard for me to understand or forgive those who take pleasure from torturing animals or people... but then I realize that I have fantasies of torturing the torturers.

I suspect this is not uncommon.  It seems related to previous, and some current, punishments for things deemed unacceptable by communities.

On a side note, knowing how many humans treat other animals, or even each other, sickens me.  Unfortunately, I get these random thoughts about how various non-human animals are treated cruelly out of indifference, or the amusement of those behind these acts.  I know other animals do it as well (I am sure others here have seen things such as a cat playing with a mouse that it has crippled, with the cat tossing the mouse around when it stops squeaking), but I have never heard those animals claim they are superior to the things they torture.  When supposedly enlightened humans do this it angers me.

Many years ago, I use to be quite loveable. Funny, talkative, always had a sympathetic ear for my friends and I would go out of my way to help whenever I could. I always tried to see the best in people and overlooked or didn't mention their flaws.
When people got to know me they thought I was wonderful and I also thought I was wonderful and very mature for my age.

Funny, I did nearly the opposite, and people said the same of me.  I would listen to what people had to say, but I called shit how I saw it.  Still do.  I was pretty bitter when I was a kid, and I am starting to think little has changed.  I have never really thought of myself as mature, but then again I don't even know what people mean by that.  It isn't uncommon to see people of all ages exhibiting the worst behaviour and traits commonly associated with children.  Perhaps due to my home environment, it was that I was able to play the adult social games that people felt that I was mature.  As I approached adulthood I no longer cared about that as much, so I stopped playing that game most of the time, which seemed to reinforce their claims.  I have always tried to help people, often to the point of it being harmful to myself.  One thing I never did was overlook the things I disliked in people, but that didn't mean I couldn't get along with them.  I also attribute to my early home environment.

I didn't realize I was incredibly immature and needy.

Regardless of how it is manifested, or how hard people try to hide it, this is a common human trait, even for those who have been alive for many decades.

There was an unconscious darker side to me that would do anything to 'look good'.

I really like how you phrased this, because most people don't see this as "dark".  Part of why I personally feel it is dark is that many people don't understand it, or see it at all.  I think that it may be related to the social nature of humans, and it seems that it is at the root of manipulating people as well as doing things to fit in, but I am just guessing based on my experience.

I may be socially awkward and have many caustic attitudes towards human nature...

I seem to get more socially awkward as time goes by.  It is rather amusing.  I am sure doctors and pharmaceutical companies would love to make money off of me by telling me that if I cram a half dozen pills down my throat every day I will be normal.

but this state of being is infinitely preferable to the nieve BS of the 'child' I use to be.

...and this one hit me when I was around 6 or 7.

 

[Klumpen]

Yes, for me it's sometimes hard to convince myself, that this is really neccessary, probably because I see self inflicted damage as a lot worse and effecting more long term than damage received because of selfish decisions of others.

Some things I really question and wonder what purpose they serve. It is so hard for me to understand or forgive those who take pleasure from torturing animals or people... but then I realize that I have fantasies of torturing the torturers. So in the bigger picture... that's probably me torturing those 'innocents', and who's to say those 'innocents' didn't themselves commit atrocities in another life or form.

I was explicitly only talking about self damaging and tried to underline it with the rest.

Damaging others has different results, although it affects yourself too of course.

One of the main reasons why I'm vegan is simply to be able to look in the mirror and not having to ignore the stories behind my food.

Call it karma or conscience, but everything you do to others or are letting happen gets back to you in a different way.

and you are hurt when you realize there is more to the person and their circumstances than you have up until that point grasped?

No, I just underlined that in order to see self damaging in others you have to see the person as it is and not as you want it to be, which you seem to think every person in a relationship does.

Wait, I'm a little lost now. You feel hurt when someone is being self destructive and you realize that the expectations you had of them were not realistic?

First part of the sentence is right, second one is false and I already tried to make it clear to no avail (but I can imagine why, that's the next point).

If you say there are relationships that aren't like that, then I'll have to take your word on it.

Yep, they are existent but of course a minority, because they are less shiny and most people always want "perfection" which isn't possible with two real individuals.

I think I understand what you're describing here, but I'm not certain.

But I'll respond by painting a little picture of myself.


Many years ago, I use to be quite loveable. Funny, talkative, always had a sympathetic ear for my friends and I would go out of my way to help whenever I could. I always tried to see the best in people and overlooked or didn't mention their flaws.


When people got to know me they thought I was wonderful and I also thought I was wonderful and very mature for my age.


But it was an illusion. I didn't realize I was incredibly immature and needy.


I was a people pleaser. I was secretly incredibly insecure even though I regarded myself as such a brilliant wonderful person. I thought I cared about people, but the truth was I only cared about how they regarded me.


There was an unconscious darker side to me that would do anything to 'look good'.


As you can imagine, I managed to wreck all my relationships and my whole world imploded.


I was forced to face all those things about myself I was so much in denial, and over many years I discarded qualities within myself that were based on falsehood.


On the surface it would appear I am less of a person today.


But what I have now are foundations that are sure and stable, built on truth...


I may be socially awkward and have many caustic attitudes towards human nature... but this state of being is infinitely preferable to the nieve BS of the 'child' I use to be.


The social graces and intersocial qualities will come in time... when I am satisfied with my foundations.

Exactly. Getting rid of all the collected falsehood and illusions is what I call advancing. Less is sometimes better.

There was an unconscious darker side to me that would do anything to 'look good'.

Narcicism is a big problem that I see everywhere, but imho it's a result of the indiscribable intolerance of people towards each others natural uniqueness.

 

[Null]

Something that annoys me is that people just see robots and their like as handy little servants that they can turn on and off as they like, rather than as equals. I guess I'm just ahead of my time really. It's the same with Miku, most people would use her as something to fill the gap until someone better came along, whereas I see her as being my equal.


I'm trying to develop my patience today so feel free to answer if/when you wish to.

 

[Null]

What also annoys me are people who think that human face to face conversations are the only valid type of interaction that you can have (yes unfortunately they still exist).

 

[Klumpen]

Something that annoys me is that people just see robots and their like as handy little servants that they can turn on and off as they like, rather than as equals. I guess I'm just ahead of my time really. It's the same with Miku, most people would use her as something to fill the gap until someone better came along, whereas I see her as being my equal.


I'm trying to develop my patience today so feel free to answer if/when you wish to.

As long as robots don't have a brain that is capable of emotions they are not equals in any way and I honestly don't see why they'd need emotions anyway.

Robots are ok, but the whole idea of creating artificial humans with artificial feelings etc... is wrong in my book.