Mail From Ed (with Estimated Shipping Dates)

[Ryuu]

Keep in mind, the community devs will be there. 20 new dev units just went out this week, so it will be great to see what they will cook up over the holidays, and how robust they make the OS. Heck, we just had a video of an AGA demo the other day - too cool

It is my desire to see to it that the OS is a hell of a lot more robust than the showing of Ubuntu 8.10 has made on my laptop and at least one of the desktops I've got. HEH... Wifi's fubared (Killswitch doesn't get detected properly after driver load, the iwl3945 driver causes random kernel panics on my laptop when ON and being used, network-manager can't figure out that the Zydas I plugged in to tapdance around those problems while fixes were being worked on isn't killed like the Intel 3945 was. With NVidia and Compiz on, it screws up some damage re-rendering of things (They're claiming it's because Compiz is acting on it before it happens, which causes problems- but it didn't do it in 8.04...) and a host of other odd issues on random machines.

It's enough to drive a non-hardcore Linux user back to an older version or Windows.


Dude i have been there and i simple told myself to believe and then studied linux further so i can solve some of the issues i faced in the future myself. I too am using ubuntu intrepid but kde4 and im loving it only problem is NO static ip through gui ¬¬ and when i try to configure my text files it goes haywire so atm i am in the believe stage and i am hoping this would be fixed soon. as it always is this is linux not hold-your-hand-and-spy-on-you-dows.

-ryu

 

[mali]

Don't forget the none gamers. There are many people outside the gaming scene interested in P.
Im a regular ITT visitor and I know that people are watching intensively.

 

[zaffercharles]

you preordered when everyone else did...i don't think you'll be waiting 4-5 months considering 4-5 months would be march or april until they START shipping.
they originally said they'd start shipping in november, now they are saying they will likely start December or January. 1-2 months is a lot less than 4-5

Well late october (original release estimate) to mid february is roughly 3.5 months, and sorry but given the fairly lengthy track record I don't expect it to be earlier than they say, actually, later.

The fact that we've been playing catch-up so long is riling me. Many times have the estimates been set back. Even if they can't help that, hearing the concern of some family members and after so many times I'm losing patience with it. The fact that we saw a case before preorder that meant very little in a few fuzzy pics, never to see again, and that made me think it was further along than it really was.

What if, I'm thinking now, a lot of the people that ordered back out? could that cause more problems? Also the 25% faliure rate is a serious worry.. to me. Since the LCD thing is holding it back at the moment, what's to say the board problem won't hold it back even more? And with people dropping out, who's to say that regardless of the teams never say die attitude (they can't quit now) the P won't ever see the light of day not because of lack of effort but simply because of circumstances?

That's why I won't be reordering via bank transfer and will either wait for th CC protection or just watch and hope the best for them, and come in later on if possible. I'm not against them, but I have lost pretty much all faith- and that's just the way it is.
I reask, what's the likely date for second batch? Because originally it was Jan/Feb so. . . is it now Apr/May/June?

 

[gaterooze]

Well late october (original release estimate) to mid february is roughly 3.5 months.

Well, that's stretching it a bit. When preorders were taken, the estimated earliest initial ship date was November 30th (but likely December for the majority or orders). Now it seems January is most likely.

QUOTE
Also the 25% faliure rate is a serious worry.. to me.


That's actually reassuring to me, the fact that MWeston is taking such care and doing things right to ensure that the failure rate will be considerably lower BEFORE our units are created, and that the boards will last for many years.

If they weren't taking such care, we would probably have Pandoras in our hands next month. But I know which I would prefer!

Hopefully they get the new CC ordering info soon, so that people in your situation will feel more comfortable.

 

[mali]

That's actually reassuring to me, the fact that MWeston is taking such care and doing things right to ensure that the failure rate will be considerably lower BEFORE our units are created, and that the boards will last for many years.

If they weren't taking such care, we would probably have Pandoras in our hands next month. But I know which I would prefer!

Hopefully they get the new CC ordering info soon, so that people in your situation will feel more comfortable.

I agree fully(with both statements).

 

[Squidge]

Unlike some companies I think Michael is trying to ensure no one sees a red ring of death

There's very little point sending out all the Pandoras if all that is going to happen is that 25% of them are returned under warranty as faulty. That just costs everyone time, money and stress.

 

[Svartalf]

Dude i have been there and i simple told myself to believe and then studied linux further so i can solve some of the issues i faced in the future myself. I too am using ubuntu intrepid but kde4 and im loving it only problem is NO static ip through gui ¬¬ and when i try to configure my text files it goes haywire so atm i am in the believe stage and i am hoping this would be fixed soon. as it always is this is linux not hold-your-hand-and-spy-on-you-dows.

Heh... The only gripe *I* would have is that this crap's stuff that should have been caught quite a bit back and fixed or they could have downgraded a bit from their aspirations on kernel, etc. I don't have time to go back through and catch their screwups like this all the time.

Me...I'm more hardcore than most. I'm a driver developer amongst other things. I'm a distribution developer by day and now by night in addition to my porting of games over from Linux (Heh...talk about the ultimate taking things into one's own hands in the Linux space... )

 

[Creature XL]

Seriously, we have to convince at least some 'Joe Averages'. The core crowd is not enough.

that was one thing I was talking about. A friend of mines considers getting the Nokia900. If I would have had my P in December and he would had liked it he would have bought a 2nd batch P. But now the probability is high he will get the N900. He is just one guy, but do oyu really think he is the only guy with similar thughts?
And YES, he is a techi and he would have bought the P just because it is the first computer-like device with the cutting edge OMAP3.

To make MY point clear: I am not too angry neither will I back out (my GF had paid for it, so why should I? ). In March I have to make the decission which mobile phone I will get, If I won't have the Panda I will most probably get an uber-cool smart phone and may reconsider the P (read as: selling the P at eBay when it arrives). So as long it is Feb. its cool for me.

The P is a gaming device but most here want to use it for UMPCing. This shouldn't be forgotten!


slightly OT: Chip you are a great dude, at least here in the forums. Always calm and informative post.


EDIT:
i am a negative guy in generel. So I hope for end Feb and will be very happy when it arrives end of Jan.

 

[kloplop321]

Well it is indeed and unfortunate event for all these delays including the world crisis going on and manufacturers slowing down.

 

[adamorjames]

Seems some of the 1st batchers are feeling like 2nd batchers when it comes to dates, but hey.. some of the 2nd batchers who wanted to be 1st batchers (me) are feeling like 3rd batchers, so be happy.

I didn't confuse anybody, did I?

 

[kloplop321]

nah, you didn't.
I think I am a first batcher. I never got an email about refunds so.. I hope it went through.

 

[yosh64]

hey

I think if you want the Pandora then just wait . I think the devs are still doing well, and I'm glad that they share/inform us of whatever things that are going on.

The cool thing is that we now have 256MB RAM and 512MB NAND, and I (and others) have more time to get something ready for the release of the Pandora .

BTW, I also agree it would be cool to get before Christmas, but I'd rather wait than have it rushed to avoid any bugs or whatever. In the whole scheme of things I don't think this delay would cause much harm, I think the Pandora is still very very young (from a consumers point of view), with many still completly unaware of its existance.

cyas

 

[BenTolputt]

I can understand the stress, and no I'm not going to say it is unwarranted.

The Pandora was bought as a slightly belated Father's Day present for me. My wife & kids knew that it wouldn't come until December, but they knew I wanted it (alot)

Now it looks like I won't get it until Christmas and my wife is letting me know she's not happy with that. The only reason she hadn't cancelled when the "end of November" deadline fell by the wayside was because I let her know how much I REALLY wanted it (i.e. I begged). She still doesn't know I won't be getting it by Christmas and I know if I tell her - the order will be cancelled in order to get me "something" (likely an iPhone or similar).

Not everybody that wants and/or ordered a Pandora is an engineer/tech-nerd with the patience of a saint. Alot of them are the loving partners/family members of said nerd. THEY are not happy with the situation and if OpenPandora is to be anything more than an "also ran" - THEY are the people that need to be OK with what comes up.

 

[lobski]

A month delay is still a lot, in my opinion.

 

[gnasher666]

I personally (and knowing myself fairly well as I've spent the last 37 years with me) believe that any delay is going to cheese most if not all of us off as we are gadgeteers and we want this gadget and that gadget and we want it now.

It's my mentality (which doesn't mean everyones, but from reading a lot on here I'm assuming a lot of people feel the same way) to get far too excited about a potential new toy. I wanted the Pandora the moment I read up about it, nothing has changed. I still want it, and yes I get down hearted when I read about a delay but apart from the odd mention of the possible shipping dates we've not had any promises of it turning up by a specific date. Our excitement gets hold of every bit of information we read and we end up making ourselves believe that we have been promised it by 30th November or whenever.

The other issue is the amount of input the team asked for at the begining of the project, not the fact that they asked for our input (because it was great to feel like our opinions are worth while and we could help shape the Pandora)but now the Pandora is being manufactured our (the community) work is done until we receive it.

This leads to posts being made just to fill up our time during the waiting period. Not because we don't have anything better to do, but because we still want to be involved in some small way.

Bottom line, I want it and I want it now. BUT, If I had it now and it wasn't 100% right (the d-pads sucked or the keyboard sucked and the screen has visable scan lines (tut tut Sony)) then it would soon end up in the cupboard gathering dust and no one on here wants that, so it's best to sit back and enjoy the ride safe in the knowledge that soon enough it will get so much better than this.

 

[chaoskid42]

Wow February. There's no point in keeping up on the boards and news updates for another three months. It's torture. I'll be back when I get my Pandora.

 

[_VWV_]

I've been following P development since December 2007. The first probable release date was somewhere in January (correct me if I'm wrong). If some first batchers get their Ps in February - that's more than a year of delay! Some first batchers wanted to buy a cristmas present - now it's evident it won't come true. On the other hand, why the hell should a person give money to somebody with no interest, by the exception of the right to be the first batcher? It's a credit crunch out there, people could have invested their money and could have got some profit.
This is bullshit. I'm disappointed! I didn't get a P in the first batch and now it seems like I won't be getting it in the second. By the time they start shipping the second batch the N900 will appear.

 

[yashton]

This is stupid. Everyone is complaining that it's nearly November 30th the BEST POSSIBLE ship date. And everyone is overreacting and saying we aren't getting it till the end of February, the WORST POSSIBLE date. Both are highly improbable. We are simply on schedule, not ahead of schedule.

All we are looking at is really instead of shipping the beginning of December if all things went smoothly, to shipping the end of December as we have seen things reach some unforseen but probably inevitable bumps.

Manufacturing hardware is not like software. Once it ships, you are stuck with it, and I'd love to see any of you try to reflow a .4 mm pitch OMAP chip in your toaster oven. My experience with software development has shown this to be true: you either get it complete when it's done, or you get it incomplete at a set deadline. In open source, we are used to just having incomplete software to tinker with, report bugs, fix problems. You don't get that in hardware of this complexity. Our ambition is laudable. Let's hope our patience is the same.

This financial crisis, like nearly every financial crisis, is based on speculation and panic. This board is turning into nothing but a mirror of that. The economy isn't in complete and total shambles. I have just left college and am looking for my first full time job. The market isn't that bad, and I have found a number of companies who want to hire people. The thing that freaks people out is the possibility of being laid off, the lack of control over things bigger than us. Sure, it's scary, and the hunting and interview process alone takes weeks (I'm on week 5 with the company I really want to get hired for) but it will all work out. Pandora too will work out too.
Stop speculating.
Stop panicking.

I agree wholeheartedly with gnasher666
QUOTE
This leads to posts being made just to fill up our time during the waiting period. Not because we don't have anything better to do, but because we still want to be involved in some small way.


No more hardware developement discussion, nothing to talk about except talking about waiting. The Developer board should be swarming with posts and work instead of more rumor grinding on the General board. The developers themselves have their hand's tied as much as we do. They are working on drivers and waiting for status updates from the manufacturers. How do you think craigx feels? He feels exactly the same as you do, only worse. You wait for updates from Chip? Well guess what, they know exactly as much as you do because they are great enough to share with us, and they don't get updates any faster from the manufacturer. You've got 330 riding on this? He's got 1.3 million dollars of other people's money he has to get spent on this. This is an ambitious project, and once again we are on schedule, not ahead of schedule.
Try supporting this project instead of just worrying about it.
Start porting some software.
Start writing some new software.
Hell, start reading a book!
Stop hitting refresh every 5 minutes.

If you are that worried, bail yourself out and get a refund of your money. I gave these guys my money knowing full well I wouldn't get a return on my investment for several months, because I believe this is an amazing idea, and something I want to support. If you aren't of a same mindset, this may not have been the best thing for you. We like our gadgets and having things right away, but sometimes the best things in life come with a small additional price of patience.

 

[parag0n]

The 'craiginator' that was being designed then, and the pandora we will get in december (i live in hope) are two completely different machines, if it had been released back then, it would have been... well... a Wiz

 

[mali]

The 'craiginator' that was being designed then, and the pandora we will get in december (i live in hope) are two completely different machines, if it had been released back then, it would have been... well... a Wiz

A very good point and exactly what I think
The upgraded spec is much more worth than a few months delay IMO

I understand the unpatient, so don't take this post as an attempt to convince someone to adapt my view.