Mail From Ed (with Estimated Shipping Dates)

[ljones]

And to think they originally said it would be out March/April. 2008. Ho hum.

What went wrong earlier on for the pandora not to be released back then? Wasn't around here back then!

ljones

 

[Svartalf]

Yes, as TaG put, there is problems with loved ones understanding. Can't help that one.

You can't? Dang! what a half assed project! I was going to pm her number to you so you could call and smooth it out. Perhaps I should just tell her it is a charitable donation to help the (otherwise) homeless.

ROFLMAO!

QUOTE

On topic: Personally, I think the word February surprised me after all the positive noises that were made. The 'don't worry, everything is on target' type info. I'm not concerned, not panicked, not stressed. A little disappointed but want it to be done properly. My only real point to all is that remember that people have different tolerance levels and different viewpoints. They are customers or potential customers and possible contributors. As a group we don't want to tell them to go away...

No, you don't. But people still do need to place this in perspective. The sort of perspective I put up on the board. Things WERE on target. Then everyone freaked out about the "downturn" in the economy (I call BS on that one... Guess what the banks went and did with the first bits of that $700bln bailout package? Buy up other banks... Seems to me we're seeing a Sheriff Bart (See: Blazing Saddles) where he's accepting the role in front of the Townspeople and they're all pointing their guns at him.) and started a lot of BS about credit that brought about other problems. But even if it's BS, the banks have dried up a lot of the cashflow right at the moment with their stupid fun and games and it probably made it hard to produce the needed LCD's, etc. in the volumes as promised.

What went wrong earlier on for the pandora not to be released back then? Wasn't around here back then!

I believe it was a couple of design changes to take it clean over the top, compared to what it was initially.

The truth be known, picking what they did initially, we'd be irrelevant instead of having everyone eagerly awaiting what we actually try to pull off here. It was "nice", but it was nothing to write home about and nobody save the GP32Xtreme crowd would have probably cared. Now, we have damned near everyone in the Linux space watching, as well as many elsehwere.

 

[gaterooze]

And to think they originally said it would be out March/April. 2008. Ho hum.

What went wrong earlier on for the pandora not to be released back then? Wasn't around here back then!


Nothing went wrong, it was just a completely different device in effect. Dubbed 'the craiginator' by the community, it was going to be a cheap replacement for the GP2X, with an upgraded version of the same chip/board. With that plan, it would have been churned out quickly and probably would have been released months ago. But it wouldn't have been anything special.

As luck would have it, a TI rep stumbled onto the project via this board and offered craigix the incredible opportunity to become a flagship project for their new bleeding edge line of chips. It was something that simply could not be refused. Instead of being what the Wiz basically is now, the Pandora would become a technological powerhouse with wide appeal. The community discussed it thoroughly and it was almost unanimous that everyone would prefer to reset the timeframes in order to do this thang properly.

btw can I just point out to the chap complaining about preorders being so early, that a lot of people here were screaming out for months to have even earlier preorders

 

[TrevorBradley]

Nothing went wrong, it was just a completely different device in effect. Dubbed 'the craiginator' by the community, it was going to be a cheap replacement for the GP2X, with an upgraded version of the same chip/board. With that plan, it would have been churned out quickly and probably would have been released months ago. But it wouldn't have been anything special.

As luck would have it, a TI rep stumbled onto the project via this board and offered craigix the incredible opportunity to become a flagship project for their new bleeding edge line of chips. It was something that simply could not be refused. Instead of being what the Wiz basically is now, the Pandora would become a technological powerhouse with wide appeal. The community discussed it thoroughly and it was almost unanimous that everyone would prefer to reset the timeframes in order to do this thang properly.

It's possible Pandora is suffering from a Second System Effect then... The danger with jumping on an opportunity like this is that increases risk.

Once we see that first Pandora assembled, and then the next fifty, a lot of those fears of risk will be lessened.

 

[oblivioner]

Really, I will believe in release dates when I see the first final Pandora working.

 

[joa]

"Boohoo my wife says i must have it now and i can't. She's cross now and i'm sat in my swivel chair all disappointed and sad'ed. What am i going to do for christmas now, It was supposed to be my #1 star prize christmas present."

Dec, Jan, Feb - Who cares, They're going as fast as they can ffs. :blink:

grow up. please. If you've been a good boy, I'm sure your wife will think of something.

 

[Chero]

grow up. please. If you've been a good boy, I'm sure your wife will think of something.

Mine will (in fact she does already) !!! (first Christmas without console/device/new computer/... in 10 years.)
Man, we'll have fun :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Let's rock & roll !

 

[TaG]

"Boohoo my wife says i must have it now and i can't. She's cross now and i'm sat in my swivel chair all disappointed and sad'ed. What am i going to do for christmas now, It was supposed to be my #1 star prize christmas present."

Dec, Jan, Feb - Who cares, They're going as fast as they can ffs. :blink:

grow up. please. If you've been a good boy, I'm sure your wife will think of something.

Poor sod. Do you have to wait til Christmas for her to think of something? Might explain the frustration in this post.

 

[christo930]

Guys, I really don't know where all the gloom is coming from. Originally we were going to start shipping at the end of November, with the rest of the orders shipping in December. Right now, if everything continues as it has been, we're looking at shipping out the first bunch in late December, with the rest following in January. It's literally a one month delay. Having some shipments pushed into February is still a possibility, but it's not a probability.

The pandora was not scheduled for a November 08 release, it was scheduled for an early spring 08 release, then late spring then possibly summer now it's going into next year.
The team repeatedly saying it's just around the corner has sabotaged GP2X sales. What gets on my nerves is that it was blatantly obvious in winter 08 that it was Never going to ship in spring 08. They should have been honest from the beginning and let people know that a late 08 early 09 release was much more likely than a spring 08 release. Based on the available information at the time, I was telling people on this board that there was no way the Pandora was going to ship in the spring of 08 and I was repeatedly told to give them the chance before making any predictions and that I wasn't being fair and at least let them fail before saying it, but as I predicted then, the rosy forecasts were going to cannibalize GP2X sales and development because so many people thought the Pandora was going to be released in spring 08. Now here we are late fall 08 and it's still not here and most likely won't be here until Winter 09. All this on a board that supposed to be for fans of Gamepark devices.

Chris

 

[Chip]

The pandora was not scheduled for a November 08 release, it was scheduled for an early spring 08 release, then late spring then possibly summer now it's going into next year.
And in that time, we've got a brand new SoC, double the RAM and storage, custom analog nubs, and bluetooth. Nothing was ever "scheduled" for any specific launch date. Every time anybody has mentioned a date, it has always been a best-estimate based on current information, and it has always been qualified as such. A lot of things have drawn out the development process - some good and some bad - but we have never intentionally misled anybody.


QUOTE
The team repeatedly saying it's just around the corner has sabotaged GP2X sales.
Actually, the only thing that has "sabotaged" GP2X sales has been GPH discontinuing the product back in June.

 

[CandidStan]

Don't panic guys.

That's NOTHING new.

To think everyone was eager to vote out analog nubs with center click to get delivery this year. What a shame.

 

[gaterooze]

The team repeatedly saying it's just around the corner has sabotaged GP2X sales.

As Chip pointed out, that's complete nonsense. Why all the hate for the Pandora crew when GPH gets a free pass? GPH:

* Released a fundamentally flawed first edition GP2X, with the joystick put in the wrong way, shoddy soldering and parts, firmware that had to be unlocked and fixed by the guys now working on Pandora (DJWillis, Squidge, Notaz), and other problems. All of this solely on preorder money from customers who they had ZERO contact with (it was all through craigix and ED), who got screwed royally. Remember, it was craigix who had to make new joystick caps with his own money and include them for free, just to make the thing bareable! And ED had to fix bricked GP2Xes in his own spare time because of GPH's silly mistakes.
* Released an improved model that was fine for a while. I was a big supporter of them during this time.
* Released a new model that made the previous ones obsolete but had its own share of new problems, e.g. screwing devs by removing the USB support which made their lives easier.
* Suddenly discontinued production with no warning and no contact with the community. People who had just bought an F200 learned they had just bought a technically dead system.
* Announced the Wiz and again take preorder money to fund it, with a November release date.
* Suddenly, customers find out from Play-Asia (not from GPH themselves) that the Wiz is delayed by 3 months to "fix the menu". No apology from GPH, no real explanation (one that is isn't a pile of horseshit), no offer to refund their money or give them something extra for their wait (like, oh, doubling the RAM at no cost), and yet somehow they get a free pass on here while the Pandora crew get lambasted.

And you have the gall to blame the Pandora for lack of GP2X sales? A system that *was discontinued* at the time? And craigix himself was begging GPH to make more GP2Xes so he could sell them to his customers!

Get some perspective. Everything that happened prior to accepting preorders is irrelevant, it was a community design period, not a product available for purchase. Since taking preorders:

* The banks rejected credit card orders, so customers had to reorder. Big deal, it takes two minutes. We might be out $5 in extra fees, boo hoo (the RAM makes up for it).
* The product has been delayed 4-10 weeks. The first were due to ship Nov 30th. Now they are due to ship late December to early February. Annoying, yes. Perfectly valid to accept your refund and walk away. But I would prefer they took their time to receive quality parts than to rush it out the door and have the thing fall apart or have flaws like a certain other product.
* The product has received double the RAM at no real cost to compensate for the delays etc. Thank you kindly.

Apologies for this post. The whining finally got to me.

 

[mali]

To add an "outsider's" view, the gp2x is just a cheap toy IMO. I was interested for a (very short)while but the low screen realestate and missing wifi killed it for me. If P. hadn't changed the hardware specs, I doubt I would have preordered it.
Don't flame me, because I don't care, anyway

 

[christo930]

The pandora was not scheduled for a November 08 release, it was scheduled for an early spring 08 release, then late spring then possibly summer now it's going into next year.
And in that time, we've got a brand new SoC, double the RAM and storage, custom analog nubs, and bluetooth. Nothing was ever "scheduled" for any specific launch date. Every time anybody has mentioned a date, it has always been a best-estimate based on current information, and it has always been qualified as such. A lot of things have drawn out the development process - some good and some bad - but we have never intentionally misled anybody.


QUOTE
The team repeatedly saying it's just around the corner has sabotaged GP2X sales.
Actually, the only thing that has "sabotaged" GP2X sales has been GPH discontinuing the product back in June.


My guess would be that Gamepark stopped making the gp2x because of slow sales, partly caused by a product that was much more powerful that was going to ship any day now.
I don't know that there was any deliberate misinformation being put out and HAVE to give the benefit of the doubt in that area, so please understand I am not accusing Craig and company of deliberately misleading anyone. But I do think that the rosey predictions were never very realistic. I don't think that anyone could deny that these rosey predictions didn't have anything to do with development slowing down for the GP2X. Developers thought they were going to have a new toy much too soon to start any new projects for the gp2x, whereas realistically it had a very low chance of being released in the time frame given.
There may have also been a lot of lost interest in the project when release time came and it hadn't even been finished being designed. Many of those people may have gone off and bought a psp and they might have bought a GP2X had they still been available.
Chris

 

[christo930]

The team repeatedly saying it's just around the corner has sabotaged GP2X sales.

As Chip pointed out, that's complete nonsense. Why all the hate for the Pandora crew when GPH gets a free pass? GPH:

* Released a fundamentally flawed first edition GP2X, with the joystick put in the wrong way, shoddy soldering and parts, firmware that had to be unlocked and fixed by the guys now working on Pandora (DJWillis, Squidge, Notaz), and other problems. All of this solely on preorder money from customers who they had ZERO contact with (it was all through craigix and ED), who got screwed royally. Remember, it was craigix who had to make new joystick caps with his own money and include them for free, just to make the thing bareable! And ED had to fix bricked GP2Xes in his own spare time because of GPH's silly mistakes.
* Released an improved model that was fine for a while. I was a big supporter of them during this time.
* Released a new model that made the previous ones obsolete but had its own share of new problems, e.g. screwing devs by removing the USB support which made their lives easier.
* Suddenly discontinued production with no warning and no contact with the community. People who had just bought an F200 learned they had just bought a technically dead system.
* Announced the Wiz and again take preorder money to fund it, with a November release date.
* Suddenly, customers find out from Play-Asia (not from GPH themselves) that the Wiz is delayed by 3 months to "fix the menu". No apology from GPH, no real explanation (one that is isn't a pile of horseshit), no offer to refund their money or give them something extra for their wait (like, oh, doubling the RAM at no cost), and yet somehow they get a free pass on here while the Pandora crew get lambasted.

And you have the gall to blame the Pandora for lack of GP2X sales? A system that *was discontinued* at the time? And craigix himself was begging GPH to make more GP2Xes so he could sell them to his customers!

Get some perspective. Everything that happened prior to accepting preorders is irrelevant, it was a community design period, not a product available for purchase. Since taking preorders:

* The banks rejected credit card orders, so customers had to reorder. Big deal, it takes two minutes. We might be out $5 in extra fees, boo hoo (the RAM makes up for it).
* The product has been delayed 4-10 weeks. The first were due to ship Nov 30th. Now they are due to ship late December to early February. Annoying, yes. Perfectly valid to accept your refund and walk away. But I would prefer they took their time to receive quality parts than to rush it out the door and have the thing fall apart or have flaws like a certain other product.
* The product has received double the RAM at no real cost to compensate for the delays etc. Thank you kindly.

Apologies for this post. The whining finally got to me.


There is one point you just aren't getting, I'm not complaining about the delay from November to December/January, it's the delay from early spring 08 to Winter 09 and at the time the gp2x was still shipping. My basic complaint /question is how many people would have bought the GP2X earlier in 08 like during the Winter/Spring if they knew then that the Pandora was not going to ship to 09?
There is no doubt that Gamepark has made some mistakes, but not talking directly to the community is not one of them. Granted it would have been nice, but what other game manufacturer goes to public blogs and ask people what they think and provide them with information and such? Another thing, is that people seem to hold Game Park and The Pandora team to different standards, being much easier on The Pandora Team. Lets call them Pandora, inc for ease. Pandora, inc is a business, just like Game Park whose ultimate goal is to earn money. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but people around here act like Pandora, inc is working for free with no hopes of making a lot of money when the product does ship. There seems to be a different way of looking at Game Park and Pandora, inc. Like Game Park is the big bad Walmart and Pandora, inc is like the mom and pop shop who's mistakes should be glossed over. I'm certainly no Game Park fanboy and they have made their share of mistakes, but they are the ones that made this community and allowed us to have many years of open systems for gamers to enjoy emulators and homebrew software. I've also noticed that a GREAT deal of the people bitching about Gamepark are new users in the board and don't own a Gamepark device. Now how can you be beating up on Gamepark when you don't even own one (and I'm not saying the OP doesn't own one, just a large number of the Pandora fanboys). I'd like a better joystick, but it's better than playing with Pandora batteries (no relation to Pandora, inc) and firmwares just to get a damn game to work and that is exactly what we would be stuck with if it wasn't for Game Park. They paved the way for Pandora, inc.

Chris

edit: Pandora batteries are batteries designed to unlock the psp to put custom firmwares on them.
I also failed to mention the very large role developers played in this community and don't want to downplay their role, it's just that I was talking about hardware not software. For software, we owe it all to the devs most of whom are working very hard for free. Having done some assembly programming on 8bits back in the day, I know how much work developing is.

 

[TaG]

Lets call them Pandora, inc for ease.
Or you could call them OpenPandora, just a thought.

I'm certainly no Game Park fanboy and they have made their share of mistakes, but they are the ones that made this community and allowed us to have many years of open systems for gamers to enjoy emulators and homebrew software.
Funny, I thought it was the community that made the community and adopted the devices to get them to do cool stuff.

There is one point you just aren't getting, I'm not complaining about the delay from November to December/January, it's the delay from early spring 08 to Winter 09 and at the time the gp2x was still shipping.
This has been talked about over and over. They never gave a definitive date until MWeston suggested Nov 15th, but that was largely in response to the amount of nagging here. craigix quickly modified that to end November, which at pre-order became December. They really didn't want this to drag on, but many circumstances were out of their control.

One bit that does worry me, is that I don't get how all the things that still need doing are entirely down to the bank, eg the keyboard only just going out for tooling. I am not bitching or complaining - I just hope that what they are now declaring is achievable. If it's not, I think they need to declare or risk a lot of wrath here. I want it to be right, and accept (as I did previously) that it's done when it's done. The difference now is that people's money and trust is at stake.

Perhaps we give the team slack because we are really behind what they are trying to do. So good luck team and keep us informed.

edit:typo - typing posts to this site frequently results in missing letters, which sometimes are proper words, which amazingly happened twice in one post. <_<

 

[kloplop321]

Are you sure about the battery thing?
the batteries have more than the highest TOOL battery(3600mAh)

 

[gaterooze]

My basic complaint /question is how many people would have bought the GP2X earlier in 08 like during the Winter/Spring if they knew then that the Pandora was not going to ship to 09?

You mean before GPH leaked the Wiz in July? That they had been working on for months by then? They'd already made the decision to dump the GP2X.

btw, the makers of the GP2X are not Game Park. They are Game Park HOLDINGS, which was a breakaway company from Game Park, the people who truly created the community with the GP32. The real Game Park tried to introduce the XGP to compete but didn't quite make it to market.

 

[pain-giver]

QUOTE
My basic complaint /question is how many people would have bought the GP2X earlier in 08 like during the Winter/Spring if they knew then that the Pandora was not going to ship to 09?


I was one of the people who was trying to decide whether to buy a Pandora or a GP2X, and I slumped for the pandora

Yes I could have got myself a nice gp2x, and I could be using it right now
But Im going to try to explain why I picked the Pandora, so excuse me if this doesn't make sense

I was thinking about getting a GP2x last christmas time, when I heard rumours of a new console coming out, that was to be priced around £200 and be alot more powerful then the GP2x, so I was faced with a choice

Buy a GP2X which looked good
Or
Wait for the new console which could blow my mind

If this new console never came out, I could have just got a GP2x anyway, but I waited, and waited, and infomation for the Pandora started coming out, and the little fanboy inside me started getting excited

PORTABLE PS1 EMULATION
PORTABLE LINUX-BASED SYSTEM
PROPER KEYBOARD
TOUCH SCREEN
PORTABLE QUAKE

And that was that. :lol:

 

[Mjlink]

Hold on a second. Didn't GPH change the Wiz joypads after the initial design revolt by THIS community? So who is to say they aren't inclined to listen or care about the community?

I bought a GP2X in May. I was thinking about waiting & getting a Pandora. I decided on both. Was really bummed about the cease in manufacturing in June. The community hasn't ceased though. Lots of support.

Pandora delays, I'll take em. I'd rather have something reliable than scrap silicon. Progress is being made. Watching FF7, MAME, etc, why are people stressing?

I'm glad I was one of the first to order. Perhaps that's why I'm one of the last to gripe. Relax it's Xmas 08 not 2012!

Peace

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