Local forums?

[Caine]

Vous manquez d'un bon sens de l'humour.

Or perhaps I do. And forgive me for the google translate. My French is really rusty.

 

[rygD]

Isn't French better left abandoned to rust quietly?

 

[levi]

French is quite useful if you're travelling in some parts of africa still.

If we discover there was someone, great, if not, the user can always ask in another language later, that's no worse than an English-only forum.

Wouldn't having local language ghettos enable us monolinguists to at least see who's posting in each section, giving us an idea of who can answer any given question. But sure, an Occitan only forum might be a step too far, and as for speakers of that language we'll just have to pick up who can speak that as we go along (if we can even identify it in a posting, as I think I've proved I can't!).

But then do we ever do that? If I see a posting in french it's usually beyond my o-level grade rusty french, so I leave it for ptitseb or sebt3 or the one with the bike to reply, or others to reply to. I never PM anyone or flag it up in any way. Maybe I would if there were a french forum for them, but they'd miscategorised their posting in english general, but as is it seems someone usually comes along to help anyway.

Is this just a technology in search of a problem? Kind of feels like it.

 

[pyrat]

Levi, I doubt my French is beyond yours, but I can repost this in English tomorrow if you want...

French is quite useful if you're travelling in some parts of africa still.

"Français est encore util si vous voyagez par certains parts de l'Afrique."

Bien sûr. Ou si vous voyagez par certains parts de France, ou Quebec, ou... Mais il ne faut pas être util pour valoir le coup. Toutes les langues sont interessantes.
J'aime le sens d'humeur, mais je suis an peu hypersensible au discrimination lingüistique et donc je n'aime pas certains blagues.
Je sais que ce n'etait pas l'intention.

Wouldn't having local language ghettos enable us monolinguists to at least see who's posting in each section, giving us an idea of who can answer any given question.

"Est-ce que avoir local langage ghettos nous rendera nous monolingüistes capable au moins de voir qui écrie dans chaque section, et nous donera une idée de qui peut répondre quelconte question ?"

Et pourquoi avons nous besoin de ce savoir ? L'existence de gent capable de répondre une langue change. Le monde apprend des langues, des personnes peuvent joindre (ou laisser) le forum... Laissez faire (questions), laissez passer (résponses).

But sure, an Occitan only forum might be a step too far, and as for speakers of that language we'll just have to pick up who can speak that as we go along (if we can even identify it in a posting, as I think I've proved I can't!).

"Mais bien sûr, un forum seulement pour occitan pouvait être un pas de trop, et pour les parleurs de ce langue nous dovrons de saisir en tout roulant (si nous pouvous l'identifier dans un message, ce que j'ai pense que j'ai montré je peut pas)"

Bon, il y avait un temps que quelque théorie lingüistique faisait Catalan et Occitan la même langue (Lemosin, je pense qu'ils l'appelaient?), c'est démodé, mais ne vous inquietez pas, vous était tres proche...

Ignorer un message qu'on ne comprend pas c'est simple... Vous n'avez pas aucun obligation de le comprendre, vous laissez outres répondre, c'est tout.

But then do we ever do that? If I see a posting in french it's usually beyond my o-level grade rusty french, so I leave it for ptitseb or sebt3 or the one with the bike to reply, or others to reply to. I never PM anyone or flag it up in any way. Maybe I would if there were a french forum for them, but they'd miscategorised their posting in english general, but as is it seems someone usually comes along to help anyway.

Is this just a technology in search of a problem? Kind of feels like it.

"Mais est-ce que nous faison ça ?, Si je vois un message en français, d'habitude il est plust que je peut comprendre, alors je le laise
à répondre par petitseb ou setb3 ou quelq'un qui a un vélo. Je jamais PM ou le marque de rien. Peut être que je le faisait s'il y avait un forum français pour eux mais ils avaient mal categorisé le message dans l'anglais, mais il parait que toujours il y a quelq'un a répondre.

Est-ce que c'est un technologie en cherche d'un problème? Ça me semble"

Oui, c'est ça ! Il marche niquel dejà. Pas besoin pour langage specifique forums, je pense. On se mélange...

 

[levi]

Ignorer un message qu'on ne comprend pas c'est simple...

Mais oui!

I'll be honest, it was google translate that mistook your occitan for catalan. I could only really detect some french words and some spanish prepositions, but now that I know that it might be valuable!

I think I got the meaning out of your post, but an english equivalent might be instructive.

 

[Caine]

J'aime le sens d'humeur, mais je suis an peu hypersensible au discrimination lingüistique et donc je n'aime pas certains blagues.
Je sais que ce n'etait pas l'intention.

The joke was never intended about French specifically, so in my opinion discrimination is an overstatement. I am sorry for you that you don't appreciate our twisted sense of humor.

 

[rygD]

Sorry if I offended anyone. I love the French, especially their toast and fries.

 

[pyrat]

So here in English

French is quite useful if you're travelling in some parts of africa still.

Sure, or if you're travelling in some parts of France or Quebec, or ... But it doesn't have to be useful to be worth knowing. All languages are interesting.
I love humour, but I'm a bit too hypersensible to linguistic discrimination, so I don't like certain jokes.
I know this wasn't the intention.

Wouldn't having local language ghettos enable us monolinguists to at least see who's posting in each section, giving us an idea of who can answer any given question.

But why do we need to know? The existence of people able to answer a language is somethign that changes. Peopel learn languages, people can join or leave the forum, just let questions and answers flow.

But sure, an Occitan only forum might be a step too far, and as for speakers of that language we'll just have to pick up who can speak that as we go along (if we can even identify it in a posting, as I think I've proved I can't!).

There was once a linguistic theory claiming Catalan and Occitan was the same language (I think they called it Lemosin?). It's outdated, but don't worry, you were very near.

Ignoring a message that one does not understand is easy... You don't have any need to answer, you just let others answers, that's all.

But then do we ever do that? If I see a posting in french it's usually beyond my o-level grade rusty french, so I leave it for ptitseb or sebt3 or the one with the bike to reply, or others to reply to. I never PM anyone or flag it up in any way. Maybe I would if there were a french forum for them, but they'd miscategorised their posting in english general, but as is it seems someone usually comes along to help anyway.

Is this just a technology in search of a problem? Kind of feels like it.

This. It works well already. I think there's no need of language specific forums. We can mix ...

Mais oui!

I'll be honest, it was google translate that mistook your occitan for catalan. I could only really detect some french words and some spanish prepositions, but now that I know that it might be valuable!

Ah!. I don't think Google Translate speaks Occitan. Apertium does (but it doesn't detect languages? and doesn't translate between all). I once looked at how do language deetection algorithms work and I was surprised how simple and effective they were. It seems like every language has
a couple or five words that by just counting their frequencies give away the text is in that language (they're both very used in one language and very little in the rest). This is very easy to extract from corpora in several languages. The field may have evolved in all these years, though.

The joke was never intended about French specifically, so in my opinion discrimination is an overstatement. I am sorry for you that you don't appreciate our twisted sense of humor.

Sorry if I offended anyone. I love the French, especially their toast and fries.

No offense taken. Maybe I overreacted because I'm too sour at some points.

 

[Klumpen]

Just let it die.

 

[rygD]

Everything will, eventually.

 

[sebt3]

Sorry if I offended anyone. I love the French, especially their toast and fries.

French is goood, as long as it's french food we're talking about

 

[rygD]

French is goood, as long as it's french food we're talking about

Like I said.

Seriously, though, the heavy French presence here makes it likely we can help people that only speak it. I wish we had more people that spoke Spanish, Portuguese, and a couple of the bigger Asian languages. Everyone is welcome to post in their native language if you ask me. I already use American here quite often.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Maybe we could have every post automagically appear on Crowdin to get processed. ?

 

[Caine]

I already use American here quite often.

Oh, you mean simplified English?

 

[levi]

Regarding wiki translation, do we want some kind of machine translation, or it is feasible to do it the way wiki does it; with multilinguists basing local language translations on other language pages. This thread seems to show we have plenty of people that can speak at least two languages well enough to write, but I guess they also need to care about the wiki resources, which tends to be the problem in this community I think.

Machine translation could be used to seed the other language pages I guess, and then they can be patched up by anyone that speaks that language, even if they don't speak english. But if they just languish in their original machine forms they're worse than not having at all I suggest.

 

[Caine]

Machine translation could be used to seed the other language pages I guess

Why seed them in that case? Non English speaking users can already pass the pages through google translate. No need to store the results in the wiki.

 

[sebt3]

the wiki resources, which tends to be the problem in this community I think.

No the issues in this community with wiki are : nobody is using it, nobody maintain it

 

[levi]

Why seed them in that case? Non English speaking users can already pass the pages through google translate. No need to store the results in the wiki.

Maybe that's the trick. Just enable other language support on the mediawiki (if it's not already there; I've not checked), and if anyone cares enough to translate a page into an easier language for them, they can use googletranslate if that makes sense to provide a framework for the article and then edit that to reduce the amount of word spaghetti, or just manually translate the whole article into good prose from the off.

Buttons to automatically fire a page though google translate (1) and offer to save the result under a corresponding language version of that page (2) might still be nice. I think (1) should be pretty straightforward, but I have no idea if there's any infrastructure in place for (2). And (1) is probably more worthwhile because it could also be useful for Engligh-only people to pull info from other language pages, if those prove to be more complete.

 

[rygD]

Oh, you mean simplified English?

I would call it Lazy English, but sure.

No the issues in this community with wiki are : nobody is using it, nobody maintain it

This. I am shitty for not helping out more, too. People, please help out.

 

[Failbert]

Why seed them in that case? Non English speaking users can already pass the pages through google translate. No need to store the results in the wiki.

I don't know about the difficulty of implementing this, but if we plan to assist non-English speakers so much then perhaps there could be a list of "Articles most asked to be translated", with sections like "1. Articles to be translated into German 2. Articles to be translated into Chinese" etc., so people proficient in these languages could patrol them to see what is in demand, and the most clueless visitors (let's face it, automated translation might produce confusing results for some) can +1 a given article to signify that they think they need it.

This. I am shitty for not helping out more, too. People, please help out.

I think a good way for non-programmers/non-hackers like me and perhaps some other users to give back to the community could be to (when the pyras are delivered and solutions to problems are posted on forums) find solutions to problems and redact them a little and put into the wiki. Or we could encourage a policy like "Has Your question been answered on the forums? Please find some time and contribute the answer to the official pyra wiki! You can start with this template [link]" and ourselves give a good example to the less active community members. So if someone does at the very least make an article describing the problem, post a screenshot or two, paste the solution and link to the full thread where he got it, it'd be great already. And if he/she wouldn't, someone else from the forums could do it (we could organize a list "Answered threads needing to be turned into articles" to share the effort).