Keyboard Layout And Durability

[AireTamStorm]

... I believe that it would be a lot easier to use keyboard shortcuts if Ctrl and Alt were on the Shoulders.
-God Ginrai

Perhaps, as long as none of the Ctrl + Alt + xxxx combinations were not in the bottom left or right corners of the keyboard. Then it would be a little awkward. It may be best to have L / R function as such since it frees up two keys and more importantly kind of makes sense, as in is intuitive.Ctrl Alt on the bottom left as previous layouts have suggested is a little more easy to figure out, but once you get used to it, it really doesn't matter.

Once thing I'd like confirmation on: Is this really up for debate? Are the project leaders actually considering different layouts, or has it been set in stone already?

 

[cosurgi]

You have convinced me. Now I'm all for this layout, and have nothing to complain about.

I'll only need to remember one hidden keypress Fn+Menu=SysRq I hope that I will not forget it in a moment of stress when Pandora will hang (That's why I'd prefer to see it printed on the keyboard ).

Only one aesthetical correction - since it's going to be printed on Pandora, the labels around Dpad and ABXY keys need to be rotated:

SVG source

I didn't delete red 'X'es here, bout I'd like to And IMHO there's no need to write "Space" on space.

Perhaps, as long as none of the Ctrl + Alt + xxxx combinations were not in the bottom left or right corners of the keyboard. Then it would be a little awkward.

I tried with a scale 1:1 paper mockup of Pandora. It's only awkward to press Alt-Ctrl-[F,G,V,B], but possible. Other keys seem to be ok.

 

[TaG]

I'll only need to remember one hidden keypress Fn+Menu=SysRq....
Only one aesthetical correction - since it's going to be printed on Pandora, the labels around Dpad and ABXY keys need to be rotated:
I thought the muted coloured keys were not going to be printed?

I also liked the Pandora key instead of the word Menu.

 

[AireTamStorm]

SVG source


I REALLY like that layout.

I tried with a scale 1:1 paper mockup of Pandora. It's only awkward to press Alt-Ctrl-[F,G,V,B], but possible. Other keys seem to be ok.

Hmm? Trying it here, F,G,V,B seem perfectly reachable on this end. Depends on the size of the hand, I guess? I was hinting at as long as the keyboard was done in a way that you never ended up lets say, doing Ctl-Alt-Fn on your layout, it would not only be ok, but actually a very nice way to arrange the keys off the keyboard. Initially I was against using the game controls as keys entirely, but I'm pretty much convinced now too. Thanks for throwing the Yen (En) symbol on there. : )

Edit: Desktop scroll? You're assuming we're going to be using "Virtual" in our X config?

 

[fusion_power]

I put the "(Not in a good way)" so you wouldn't understand it as talking about price. I was talking about quality. Cheap can be used to describe bad quality.

-God Ginrai


My english is bad but not THAT bad! In the same way you meant "cheap" as quality, I meant expencive in the meaning of quality. Everything can be done in a good way so simply imagine my Idea in superb-high Quality like *insert your fav quality company here*
But it was just speculation and wishful thinking because the Keyboard layout can never satisfy everyone. Maybe the Devs release a spare Keyboard Button set for various Languages so everyone can puzzle his own unique Button labeling?

OR we replace the Keyboard part with a touch sensitive (and tracile feedback capable) OLED Display and the Keyboard layout is software-driven ? :lol:

OR ther is no Labeling at all? ("Das Keyboard" ) would also prevent the printing from rub-away within 6 moths or so becasue it cant be laser printed onto the black keys. ( I don't trust paint used for button labeling)

Or like the overlays on the Atari 5200 and Jaguar controllers. :lol:

Though I actually like those.


Yay! This is also a interesting Idea.

 

[PSyMastR]

I also liked the Pandora key instead of the word Menu.

This was up for debate for a long while. It will be a menu button.

 

[TaG]

I also liked the Pandora key instead of the word Menu.
This was up for debate for a long while. It will be a menu button.Sorry - I knew it was discussed but did not realise/remember that was the outcome. I'll try and find that and re-read.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I also liked the Pandora key instead of the word Menu.
This was up for debate for a long while. It will be a menu button.Sorry - I knew it was discussed but did not realise/remember that was the outcome. I'll try and find that and re-read.

Just my opinion of course, but MENU makes more sense. You can tell what it is from a glance. What does PANDORA mean? Is it a qualifier? A reset button? Release the Evils of the World button? :lol:

Not to mention, PANDORA wouldn't fit on the button. MENU fits nicely.

 

[AireTamStorm]

Not to mention, PANDORA wouldn't fit on the button. MENU fits nicely.

If I remember correctly, the Pandora button was a logo.

 

[God Ginrai]

I'll only need to remember one hidden keypress Fn+Menu=SysRq....
Only one aesthetical correction - since it's going to be printed on Pandora, the labels around Dpad and ABXY keys need to be rotated:
I thought the muted coloured keys were not going to be printed?

I also liked the Pandora key instead of the word Menu.

This is what I had submitted way back when:

(Ignore the poor quality, I converted it in paint because the board wouldn't let me post a Bitmap)

I put the "(Not in a good way)" so you wouldn't understand it as talking about price. I was talking about quality. Cheap can be used to describe bad quality.

-God Ginrai


My english is bad but not THAT bad! In the same way you meant "cheap" as quality, I meant expencive in the meaning of quality. Everything can be done in a good way so simply imagine my Idea in superb-high Quality like *insert your fav quality company here*


Well see, you mentioned Apple, so I figured there was no way you could be talking about quality. ;P

I also liked the Pandora key instead of the word Menu.

This was up for debate for a long while. It will be a menu button.


I don't remember anyone making a statement of it being one way or the other. Maybe you could link us to such a post? I seem to remember the topic just dieing.

-God Ginrai

 

[cosurgi]

I thought the muted coloured keys were not going to be printed?

Uh, which ones? You mean - those around Dpad and ABXY? But then how would people know what do they mean with Fn, or with mouse switch ?

 

[God Ginrai]

I thought the muted coloured keys were not going to be printed?

Uh, which ones? You mean - those around Dpad and ABXY? But then how would people know what do they mean with Fn, or with mouse switch ?

Memory.

-God Ginrai

 

[cosurgi]

Memory.

No way. I prefer to spent my memory on more important stuff. Every braincell counts.

 

[God Ginrai]

Memory.

No way. I prefer to spent my memory on more important stuff. Every braincell counts.


Sticky Notes, then.

-God Ginrai

 

[AireTamStorm]

Sticky Notes, then.
-God Ginrai

Office life without sticky notes is not office life at all.

 

[cosurgi]

Sticky Notes, then.
-God Ginrai

Office life without sticky notes is not office life at all.

Heheh, so we are back to using stickers?

 

[God Ginrai]

Sticky Notes, then.
-God Ginrai

Office life without sticky notes is not office life at all.

Heheh, so we are back to using stickers?

No, YOU are. We can all use our memory to remember things.

-God Ginrai

 

[kagato]

My to cents here. Please make standard qwerty layout as default. Stickers + software reprogramming can solve any layout issue with any language. Why do we have to have an accent button mapped buy default? Is it that necessary to overload keyboard with 4 sings per key? You want to please non-English speaking people but is it possible?

For languages based on the roman alphabet this is what you should get.

Foreign symbols & accents are mapped to Fn-Up & Fn-Down, which aren't even labeled. Does it still seem too heavily focused on multilingual support?

QUOTE
Let's take Russian layout as an example. We know it's impossible to make a Russian layout that'll be comfortable to type. [...] But do you think it's possible to quickly work out a Russian layout that will be as widely accepted as qwerty?

It seems to me there is already a fairly standard Russian keyboard layout:

Fortunately it maps almost entirely to the alphabet keys. The Pandora is about 4 keys short, but with some symbol overloading and use of accent mode as well, it should fit on pretty well.
(Something like Chinese or Japanese wouldn't work, but they've got good roman-based input methods anyway.)
And again, this is just about allowing for localization; we're trying to make it possible, not forcing it onto every user.

I thought the muted coloured keys were not going to be printed?

Uh, which ones? You mean - those around Dpad and ABXY? But then how would people know what do they mean with Fn, or with mouse switch ?

I think these are all controls that can be explained in the manual and remembered. Most people probably won't even use the mouse controls given the touchscreen, the page controls are fairly intuitive (and not exactly essential anyway), and the minority who need the multilingual support will learn it pretty quick.

In my opinion, we've hit the limit of what we can reasonably label without making a mess. And we haven't added any printing to the case, which again would add some expense.

 

[kagato]

Oops, we might have missed a button. There probably needs to be a control to disable wireless, for airport use etc. I don't think there's a physical switch on the case.
It could be done through the setup menu, but it's probably better that there be a quick way of doing it.

There's only one key left at this point, so I guess Fn-Space can be the wireless toggle. Works for me...

 

[kagato]

Sorry for the triple-post.

Looking at the Cyrillic keyboard above, it actually looked pretty easy to set up. So with the help of Wikipedia I gave it a go.

That's 28 of the 33 characters needed.
Accent-Е for Ё
Accent-Ш for Щ
Accent-И for Й

Ъ and Ь are apparently placed after a consonant to modify pronunciation, so I thought Accent-<any consonant> could add those symbols, software permitting.

Any Russian users care to offer feedback?

(Please keep in mind, this entire thread is speculative, and may not bare any relation to the actual product in the end)