Keyboard Layout And Durability

[Hotcooler]

Kagato Pretty good layout. I think we can stick with it. There will be some discomfort for some time (because "Й" usually mapped to "Q", "Ф" usually mapped to "A" e.t.c.) but since the keyboard is small, it's pretty much the best way.

 

[kagato]

Yeah, I had to move the symbols slightly due to the reduced number of keys, but the relative positions are nearly the same (minus the missing keys).
The exceptions are Э moving up one row, and Ф moving down.

. and , are going to be a bit of a pain as you'll have to type Ф or Я first and shift it back (or toggle AltGr off briefly).

 

[Hotcooler]

I can Suggest tis one. It's more like standard, but pretty much with the same issues.

Charecters after "/" is accented ones. I moved "Ь" "Ъ" "Э" to the corners, so the may not be printed, but memorised. "Ъ" and "Ь" are in the same respective row and corner. "Э" is moved under accent just because it's not that frequently used and I needed something to sacrifice

And "Е" "Ё" and "Ш" "Щ" is obvious, so there is no need to print two of them too.

 

[God Ginrai]

Sorry for the triple-post.

Why didn't you just edit your previous post?

-God Ginrai

 

[_VWV_]

Foreign symbols & accents are mapped to Fn-Up & Fn-Down, which aren't even labeled. Does it still seem too heavily focused on multilingual support?
No, if additional stuff is not labeled on the keyboard - that's fine. Yet again we're back to stickers + software remapping. I'm all for it. Actually there's nothing to discuss here coz everybody can pick up whatever layout they want.

It seems to me there is already a fairly standard Russian keyboard layout:

Fortunately it maps almost entirely to the alphabet keys. The Pandora is about 4 keys short, but with some symbol overloading and use of accent mode as well, it should fit on pretty well.

Thanks for the link! This layout is accidentally the same I have on my keyboard and it's great. The problem is that as soon as you try to modify it it turns to a-not-so-standard variant. That's what I wanted to say in my previous post. And I also said that many variants will appear based on ones ideas about the right Russian layout (and they did). I like both your variant and the one that Hotcooler has offered. I can't chose between them coz they both seem to me as a compromise between what it should be and the number of buttons available.
But the way, dear Russian layout developers, will I have to switch to English layout to insert a comma or a full stop?

 

[conso]

I think the fn-button should not work as a modifier on/off, but as a register-switcher. Say, you are in standard-keyboard-mode and want to type a "?" you would simply tip fn 1x and then the button, ? is mapped to in the second-register of the standard-keyboard. 2x tipping will bring you to a 3. standard-register. 4x tipping to cyrillic. 4x tipping + hold fn for say 2 sec will toggle cyrillic as your standard-layout. A simple configuration file could activate/deactivate special registers, so people who don't use cyrillic will not see it .

Btw: Ctrl, alt, shift + space should really be dedicated keys. Fn shouldn't effect them in any way, since this will always make problems with key-combos! Caps-lock should be activated by holding shift down for several seconds and released by tipping shift once.

 

[God Ginrai]

I think the fn-button should not work as a modifier on/off, but as a register-switcher. Say, you are in standard-keyboard-mode and want to type a "?" you would simply tip fn 1x and then the button, ? is mapped to in the second-register of the standard-keyboard. 2x tipping will bring you to a 3. standard-register. 4x tipping to cyrillic. 4x tipping + hold fn for say 2 sec will toggle cyrillic as your standard-layout. A simple configuration file could activate/deactivate special registers, so people who don't use cyrillic will not see it .

Btw: Ctrl, alt, shift + space should really be dedicated keys. Fn shouldn't effect them in any way, since this will always make problems with key-combos! Caps-lock should be activated by holding shift down for several seconds and released by tipping shift once.

That leaves 2 different sets of buttons that people have to remember. Cosurgi couldn't even be bothered to remember 8 buttons, you think he (and other people) will be able to remember 86?

-God Ginrai

 

[conso]

http://www.myglowkeys.com/keyboard.php
http://www.latkey.com/

I would always go for customization before filling the keyboard with labels that most users won't need and that should be hard to remove. High-quality stickers could even be packed together with the pandora, together with some example pictures, so everyone can decide to start without them, adopt an example-layout or map all buttons himself. That's no big deal...

 

[God Ginrai]

http://www.myglowkeys.com/keyboard.php

I would always go for customization before filling the keyboard with labels that most users won't need and that should be hard to remove. High-quality stickers could even be packed together with the pandora, together with some example pictures, so everyone can decide to start without them, adopt an example-layout or map all buttons himself. That's no big deal...



Give users hard to remove stickers and users will complain that they accidentally put the sticker on the wrong place and it won't wome off.

Give users easy to remove stickers and users will complain about how the stickers keep falling off.

Either way, stickers cause complaints.

-God Ginrai

 

[conso]

http://www.myglowkeys.com/keyboard.php

I would always go for customization before filling the keyboard with labels that most users won't need and that should be hard to remove. High-quality stickers could even be packed together with the pandora, together with some example pictures, so everyone can decide to start without them, adopt an example-layout or map all buttons himself. That's no big deal...



Give users hard to remove stickers and users will complain that they accidentally put the sticker on the wrong place and it won't wome off.

Give users easy to remove stickers and users will complain about how the stickers keep falling off.

Either way, stickers cause complaints.

-God Ginrai


That's why example-pictures should be available. The idea with registers would still add a lot of comfort to people communicating with people in their own language.
Also, is it really worse if people complain about accidently putting a sticker on the wrong place or if people complain about having to use a knife to rub of the standard key's before they can start customizing their keyboard? Most foreign people will do the later.

 

[God Ginrai]

http://www.myglowkeys.com/keyboard.php

I would always go for customization before filling the keyboard with labels that most users won't need and that should be hard to remove. High-quality stickers could even be packed together with the pandora, together with some example pictures, so everyone can decide to start without them, adopt an example-layout or map all buttons himself. That's no big deal...



Give users hard to remove stickers and users will complain that they accidentally put the sticker on the wrong place and it won't wome off.

Give users easy to remove stickers and users will complain about how the stickers keep falling off.

Either way, stickers cause complaints.

-God Ginrai


That's why example-pictures should be available. The idea with registers would still add a lot of comfort to people communicating with people in their own language.
Also, is it really worse if people complain about accidently putting a sticker on the wrong place or if people complain about having to use a knife to rub of the standard key's before they can start customizing their keyboard? Most foreign people will do the later.


There would be a helluva lot more complaints about stickers than the standard setup, trust me.

-God Ginrai

 

[kagato]

I think the fn-button should not work as a modifier on/off, but as a register-switcher. Say, you are in standard-keyboard-mode and want to type a "?" you would simply tip fn 1x and then the button, ? is mapped to in the second-register of the standard-keyboard. 2x tipping will bring you to a 3. standard-register. 4x tipping to cyrillic. 4x tipping + hold fn for say 2 sec will toggle cyrillic as your standard-layout. A simple configuration file could activate/deactivate special registers, so people who don't use cyrillic will not see it .

That would leave you having to keep track of how many times you'd tapped a key to know what character your next keypress would get. I don't think I'd enjoy that.

"Exactly how many toggle flips in toto are involved in this procedure?"

QUOTE
Btw: Ctrl, alt, shift + space should really be dedicated keys.

Ctrl & Alt at present are dedicated keys. Fn-Shift is Caps Lock, which is pretty standard for handheld devices (eg, my jasjam). I briefly suggested a Shift-Space function, which was bad (glad that was changed), but I don't think Fn-Space will hurt. Fn is a one-keypress sticky button, it doesn't correspond to a regular key and it doesn't send a keycode by itself.

 

[Arialia]

Good work guys

i have a little idea too

mine version too :

some comments :
i move all mathematics characters on right side
also i put the symbol \ in Altgr mode because user normal don't use it under a linux system (only in programmation or scripting Dos system )

i add symbol ¨ and move symbol ?

also i put symbols ' for shift mode to symbol , and ` to .

why?
because we can use these touch as modifier key too for accent :

hold , and a give á
hold , and e give é
hold , and i give Í
hold , and o give ó
....
with same system with . we can have àèìòù with only 2 keys and ÀÈÌÒÙ with 3 keys ( .+shift+A)

with Fn we can have the other accents as dead keys ( ^¨~ )

i miss one : the symbol ° maybe in AltGr mode for O ?

with this system all latin characters with accents can be type with less than 3 keys
even ç with hold , and c

well my idea seems to be very fun to me : i always forgot where is these characters on my french keyboard (really not ergonomic :huh: )

i move also the AltGr : seems more ergonomic to press fn and Enter with thumb right when thumb left press another key

need to print a 1:1 Pandora paper to test it :lol:

 

[Hotcooler]

IMO when you hold a letter button you should ger this char releatedly, not it's accent.

P.S. I tried printing and tapping previous's page layouts. Two of them are good. But IMO mine is a bit better, but only because you dont need to relearn too much (for exaple trying to find "Я" on there).

But they both work really well.

And I guess you will be able to print punctuation using Fn or Altgr.

 

[AireTamStorm]

I still cannot help but wonder if this topic is actually up for debate at this point, with preorders apparently on the horizon.
At least, the physical print on the keys, that is. Everything else is in software.

 

[TaG]

I still cannot help but wonder if this topic is actually up for debate at this point, with preorders apparently on the horizon.
At least, the physical print on the keys, that is. Everything else is in software.
I thought that, hence my first post. But as the developers have neither confirmed or denied anything on the topic, who knows? If it is still up for discussion then we might as well join in.

 

[conso]

I still cannot help but wonder if this topic is actually up for debate at this point, with preorders apparently on the horizon.
At least, the physical print on the keys, that is. Everything else is in software.
I thought that, hence my first post. But as the developers have neither confirmed or denied anything on the topic, who knows? If it is still up for discussion then we might as well join in.

Who know's? This discussion is really controversal and what if the devs/distributors come out and say: We will sell localised pandora for the countrys they are sold to"? They would still have kept us away from bashing newbies asking stupid questions and doing something "productive"

 

[AireTamStorm]

Who know's? This discussion is really controversal and what if the devs/distributors come out and say: We will sell localised pandora for the countrys they are sold to"?

As with all the other Pandora "variations" that have been requested, most likely not going to happen.

 

[conso]

Who know's? This discussion is really controversal and what if the devs/distributors come out and say: We will sell localised pandora for the countrys they are sold to"?

As with all the other Pandora "variations" that have been requested, most likely not going to happen.

It's about variation of knob's that could be exchanged anytime anyway, not about crazy stuff like adding gps or a webcam. I don't think this is necessary, as I would hope for a simple solution only with the basic keys needed to operate the device, but I wouldn't be surprised, if the pandora-buttons will be at least a little localized. I would be very surprised if the keyboard had actually cyrillic labels

 

[cosurgi]

That's a yet another variation:

1. All labels that I consider unnecessary are removed.
2. Mark Ctrl & Alt because I'll never remember which one is on the left and which on the right. (but I guess that I'll need to put a sticker there, becuase it requires printing on the case)
3. Move all other labels onto the buttons. They become really small, uh.
4. Who needs "Space" on space?
5. Didn't rearrange any symbols - they are the same is in Kagato's final proposal.

SVG source