I've Canceled

[Esn]

-snip-

 

[fuji99]

Should have let the order through then sold it for a grand or so on eBay

+1, you have valid reasons for canceling but there is obviously a good secondary market for these things. Even if yours didn't arrive until say, Christmas, I'm sure you could have still covered the cost of the iPad.

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, there are no really new things for us here where we could learn from.

Nice. The original poster underwrites your project for years. He loses patience, politely, and tries to make helpful suggestions.

He's completely dismissed. Lovely.

Well, I explained everything I said and WHY I said it. I'm not trying to insult anyone here.
He had valid points for cancelling, as it seems he's interested in things he can do with a Pandora. The Pandora is what the Pandora is - and if an iPad does suite him better (and it sounds like it), I won't force him to keep the Pandora.
That's not dismissing im, that's understanding him and his reasons.

Most of what he mentioned is known. Yep, we do know you want more information. But we don't have them, sadly.
We also know there are products from Apple, Sony, etc. And we know those products might be better suited for some guys than the Pandora - depending on what you want to do.

Still, we planned the Pandora as OpenSource Gaming handheld. And in that area, there is no competition right now.

Sorry, but the information coming from OP is piss poor. The excuse that it takes too long to update is also piss poor.
To make it clear: Make one sticky in this forum. Have it include the following information:

Nice. I think I explained multiple times why we can't post any real numbers yet. And still you think it's piss poor.
And we're trying to excuse.

If I would post like you, I'd probably say you're understanding on how complicated such a project is piss poor. But then probably some guys would tell me I'm angry and insulting other people.
So I'm just gonna post: Believe me, building such a thing with low budget and without ever having done such thing is extremely stressing, complicated and definately anything but easy.

As of <current date>
THIS IS HOW MANY WE'VE BUILT: XXXX

No idea. Something between 500 and 600 I guess.

THIS IS HOW MANY WE'VE SHIPPED TO GBAX CUSTOMERS:YYYY

No idea. Jacquelyne could know that.

THIS IS HOW MANY WE'VE SHIPPED TO ED CUSTOMERS: ZZZ

Probably 100 or so. Haven't counted them.

THIS IS HOW MANY WE'VE SHIPPED TO FATIH's CUSTOMERS: AAA

Don't think any yet - he'll get them from later batches.

THIS IS HOW MANY THAT WON'T BE SHIPPED (defects, warranty replacements, review units, etc): BBB

No idea.

That's it. No predictions, no projections, just the facts. No more purposeful ambiguity. Optionally, letting us know what parts are currently on order, no ETA needed, would also be nice.
Note that people are trying to do the very same thing by divining tea leaves, and spreading misinformation that will likely result in more cancellations as opposed to just putting up the facts.

Okay, as you can see above, there's not much information we could give you with that sticky - and now I explain why once more.

This is how we handle the building of the units:

1. We have 1000 cases and (so far) 800 boards. That's something we know, since we always know the amount of how many boards they ship us.
2. These units will be assembled - and while being assembled, we do the first tests of the boards. One is not working correctly? We put it aside.
3. After they are assembled and properly screwed together, they are tested once more (audio test, control tests, wifi tests) and then flashed. A unit fails? We put it aside.
4. The finished and working units are being put in a box. Each fourth one in a different box (that's the units I get).
5. Craig takes the boxes each day to his office where Jacquelyne ships them. If my box if full enough, she will also ship them.
6. Jacquelyne keeps some units for RMA. If there are some RMAs, she'll ship them out and keep a newly built unit for RMA. The bad unit will be put aside.
7. Whenever there is nothing else to do (i.e. prepare the LCDs for the next batch of boards arriving, etc.), we check the broken units or boards to see if we can fix them or if we need to ship them to Texas to have them fixed. If we can fix them ourselves, we do that (whenever we find some time).
8. When the first 1000 units have been shipped and we need to wait for the next cases, we can try to fix the remaining boards or send the not-by-us-fixable boards to Texas. Before we ship them, we count the boards - and thus know how many we shipped (as Boards we got - broken boards = Units shipped)

Our first priority is building the Pandoras as soon as possible. So as soon as new boards arrive, we stop doing anything we were currently doing and continue to build.
We don't count while building, as with all that testing, sorting out broken stuff, different people working there, etc., this wouldn't work out properly.

And it's not important anyways (it won't change anything with the building, it will probably only slow down). We know how many units we built and shipped after we shipped the broken ones back to Texas.

 

[Chairman_Now]

Yeah, it would be nice if this graphic was official...

Yeah, it'd be nice if the graphic was official, and accurate. Since it is neither, it is nothing more than a nice guess wrapped in a pretty picture. I think that OP can do better than that.

 

[xweb]

lets call it a gadget portfolio reallocation.(ie. he is canceling his pandora preorder to finance the purchase of an ipad.)

 

[Sphinxter]

I've decided to cancel my order.

You should look into becoming a soap opera writer as it seems you have a talent to turn even the most banal things into huge drama.

If you think that's banal or commonplace you sir are in desperate need of a decent project manager.

 

[EvilDragon]

EDIT: Chairman_Now, The rest of us also would like more information and have been underwriting this as well. However, there's no excuse for being rude. The project is doing as well as it can, and quite frankly it's amazing they've been able to ship any units at all. This is hardly a simple project to work on. They get yelled at when the information they hand out is wrong and they get yelled at when they don't give enough information and...

As ED himself has said in another thread, he meets rudeness with rudeness. Well, he was pretty damned rude in his last posting. More so than calling their efforts at information distribution "piss poor". I doubt that even the OP members would dispute that.

I did? That would be weird - as I always try to be nice - unless I'm way too tired and have to repeat the same things over and over and over again.
But, to be honest, I couldn't find any rudeness in my reply to spikeyxxx.
All I did was telling him I can understand that an iPad would probably the better device for him and explained what we built the Pandora for... and for what we built it, there is no competition. Unless you can name me one, it sure is like that.

And while the information we give you might sound piss poor for you, it is not. It is the best we can give you, we don't know more ourselves.
I know you want to know more, but we can't tell you more than we know ourselves.

there's not really a whole of information that they have that we haven't been given.

See my post again. All of the information that I'm suggesting that they make available is easily known to them, and has not been given. It'd be extremely helpful. It doesn't promise anything. It does not take much effort to do so. So why not post it? Are they afraid of mass cancellations if they do?
[/quote]

Well, that's the big deal: They are not that easily known as it would include more work (count all the finished units, remove the broken ones, remove the RMA ones, etc.)
And believe me - with the amount of work we currently have to do, no one wants to count the unless it would speed things up (and it won't).

Seems like the only reason that I can come up with. Same for ED's post - why argue with the guy? How about just say - thanks, sorry it didn't work out, hope to see you back?

Errm... I didn't argue?
I just made clear what the Pandora as and agreed that an iPad is better for him. Why try to tell him the Pandora is the kickass-device he really needs if the iPad does all he wants to do?
The Pandora only makes sense if you get it for what it is built for. For every other aspect (internet browsing, movie playing, etc.), there are better devices out there.
It's the combination of all of that and the gaming controls that make the Pandora unique. If you don't need all that and find a device that does suit you better - I see no reason why you shouldn't get it instead of the Pandora.

I'm not the kind of guy who tries to force anyone buying anything. I try to help anyone, and I surely won't tell anyone "You need to buy the Pandora, there's nothing better" if there actually are devices out there which I think would be better for that guy...

 

[Chairman_Now]

Still, we planned the Pandora as OpenSource Gaming handheld. And in that area, there is no competition right now.

Please don't revisit this one. The Pandora was intended to be a general purpose hand-held, too. Craig has been quoted extensively on this.

Nice. I think I explained multiple times why we can't post any real numbers yet. And still you think it's piss poor.
And we're trying to excuse.

If I would post like you, I'd probably say you're understanding on how complicated such a project is piss poor.

THIS IS HOW MANY WE'VE SHIPPED TO ED CUSTOMERS: ZZZ

Probably 100 or so. Haven't counted them.

Sorry, if you truly don't know how many units you've shipped out to your own customers, especially with such small numbers, well, I think that defines "piss poor".

Everything I've suggested has nothing to do with how complicated your project is, nor how bad my understanding of such complications are. Units are either shipped, built, or put aside. These are solid, knowable numbers, and numbers that your users, clients and backers are asking for. Either do it or not, but please stop with the lame excuses.

 

[EvilDragon]

Sorry, if you truly don't know how many units you've shipped out to your own customers, especially with such small numbers, well, I think that defines "piss poor".

No one holds you from flying to Craigs place to count all of them. We're just too worn out to spend a few hours more just to count the units.
You can stay there for a few weeks (I'm sure Craig will give you a room to sleep) and simply count everything they do and update the page every day.

Everything I've suggested has nothing to do with how complicated your project is, nor how bad my understanding of such complications are. Units are either shipped, built, or put aside. These are solid, knowable numbers, and numbers that your users, clients and backers are asking for. Either do it or not, but please stop with the lame excuses.

Unless you count them, they are not solid numbers.
And instead of trying to force me to do it, don't insult me with doing lame excuses. It just shows that you have NO idea how much energy we put them and sound like a child "I wanna know now! I wanna know now! If you don't tell me, you're just too stupid!".

 

[Chairman_Now]

EDIT: Chairman_Now, The rest of us also would like more information and have been underwriting this as well. However, there's no excuse for being rude. The project is doing as well as it can, and quite frankly it's amazing they've been able to ship any units at all. This is hardly a simple project to work on. They get yelled at when the information they hand out is wrong and they get yelled at when they don't give enough information and...

As ED himself has said in another thread, he meets rudeness with rudeness. Well, he was pretty damned rude in his last posting. More so than calling their efforts at information distribution "piss poor". I doubt that even the OP members would dispute that.

I did? That would be weird - as I always try to be nice - unless I'm way too tired and have to repeat the same things over and over and over again.

Actually, you didn't. Apologies. A user with an almost identical avatar icon did. Again, apologies for the mis-attribution.

 

[Prometheus]

EDIT: Chairman_Now, The rest of us also would like more information and have been underwriting this as well. However, there's no excuse for being rude. The project is doing as well as it can, and quite frankly it's amazing they've been able to ship any units at all. This is hardly a simple project to work on. They get yelled at when the information they hand out is wrong and they get yelled at when they don't give enough information and...

As ED himself has said in another thread, he meets rudeness with rudeness. Well, he was pretty damned rude in his last posting. More so than calling their efforts at information distribution "piss poor". I doubt that even the OP members would dispute that.

I did? That would be weird - as I always try to be nice - unless I'm way too tired and have to repeat the same things over and over and over again.

Don't worry, ED - it wasn't you at all. You've been mistaken for Moxie, who has a similar avatar to you, again.

EDIT: Ninja'd. h34r:

 

[EvilDragon]

Actually, you didn't. Apologies. A user with an almost identical avatar icon did. Again, apologies for the mis-attribution.

Heh - yeah, moxie and me seem to look pretty similar
It happened to me, too: Reading some of his posts thinking... "When the heck did I post that?"

 

[darkblu]

ED, i kindly ask you to stop wasting your precious time in treads like this one. unless you do that on the background while waiting for something tedious to finish, that is (this is how i mostly do my forum dwelling).

but generally, the very idea of an OPT member visiting this thread was a bad one. just saying.

 

[Chairman_Now]

Sorry, if you truly don't know how many units you've shipped out to your own customers, especially with such small numbers, well, I think that defines "piss poor".

No one holds you from flying to Craigs place to count all of them. We're just too worn out to spend a few hours more just to count the units.
You can stay there for a few weeks (I'm sure Craig will give you a room to sleep) and simply count everything they do and update the page every day.

Everything I've suggested has nothing to do with how complicated your project is, nor how bad my understanding of such complications are. Units are either shipped, built, or put aside. These are solid, knowable numbers, and numbers that your users, clients and backers are asking for. Either do it or not, but please stop with the lame excuses.

Unless you count them, they are not solid numbers.
And instead of trying to force me to do it, don't insult me with doing lame excuses. It just shows that you have NO idea how much energy we put them and sound like a child "I wanna know now! I wanna know now! If you don't tell me, you're just too stupid!".

I simply cannot accept that the notion of "inventory" is optional for any business or enterprise, and that's essentially what I'm asking for. It is a fundamental part of doing business, any kind, any size. Saying anything to the contrary is just silly and indefensible. Suggesting that a client should be doing it is just beyond any reason whatsoever.

 

[Loonie]

You people really need to chill the hell out. How on earth do you cope with life outside the internet? Do you mainline quadruple espressos every fifteen minutes or something?

 

[EvilDragon]

I simply cannot accept that the notion of "inventory" is optional for any business or enterprise, and that's essentially what I'm asking for. It is a fundamental part of doing business, any kind, any size. Saying anything to the contrary is just silly and indefensible. Suggesting that a client should be doing it is just beyond any reason whatsoever.

Why? What's so fundamental here?
We know how many orders we have, we know how many boards and cases we ordered, we know they will be shipped to the UK sometime (and we phone up the companies to try to speed that up), we know all broken boards have to be shipped back for repairs, we know we have to send everyone who ordered a Pandora.

But what's so fundamental and important for us knowing exactly how many we built and shipped already? What do WE gain with that knowledge (WE, not YOU)?

 

[hedwards]

You people really need to chill the hell out. How on earth do you cope with life outside the internet? Do you mainline quadruple espressos every fifteen minutes or something?

I think this answers it quite nicely.
duty calls

 

[Chairman_Now]

I simply cannot accept that the notion of "inventory" is optional for any business or enterprise, and that's essentially what I'm asking for. It is a fundamental part of doing business, any kind, any size. Saying anything to the contrary is just silly and indefensible. Suggesting that a client should be doing it is just beyond any reason whatsoever.

Why? What's so fundamental here?
We know how many orders we have, we know how many boards and cases we ordered, we know they will be shipped to the UK sometime (and we phone up the companies to try to speed that up), we know all broken boards have to be shipped back for repairs, we know we have to send everyone who ordered a Pandora.

But what's so fundamental and important for us knowing exactly how many we built and shipped already? What do WE gain with that knowledge (WE, not YOU)?

RE: shipped units: You cannot book revenue until a unit is shipped. This is simple GAAP, which I believe, is employed in the UK and Europe, as well as the US. So if nothing else, you gain because you're running a business adequately, and adhering to local laws. You really, really should have this information if you expect to be in business for any amount of time. I doubt I'm telling you anything that you don't already know.

RE: built units: You cannot know how efficiently you're operating unless you know when units have been built, and how many. It may effect the decision to send out review units, or how many to hold back for RMA. There may be customs and taxation reasons for knowing that certain components are now assembled units, and within a given timeframe.

Of course, there are other benefits for disclosing this information. Like, say, goodwill. Confidence in the OP Team ("wow, they're really on top of things").

It'd probably would have been better for OP to disclose nothing at all if this is the attitude. But then again, that's what the JooJoo project did, and they died of massive cancellations, didn't they?

 

[TLJRyan]

There are ~6 billion people on planet earth.

A percentage of those are assholes.

Reasoning from your posts, there is a high probability that you are of these assholes.

 

[sryidc]

Good Lord people. stop bothering Ed and let him get back to work, or sleep or whatever. the more you complain the longer it will take you AND ME to get our Pandora.