It could be we're there!

[Askarus]

There would be a very easy solution by replacing it with a Tantalum Capacitor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalum_capacitor), which is probably while almost any smaertp
However, Tantalum is considered a conflict material (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_resource) which is a good reason why we would like to avoid using it.
So we'll still play around with different capacitors. As no layout change would help here, we can do that while the Mainboards for the mass production are being manufactured.
Another solution would be to try a source for clean tantalum, which might be possible as well.
Worst case scenario would be we'd have to use a few tantalum capacitors. It would still be A LOT less than used in any smartphone, but I'd still like to find a conflict free solution.
What's your opinion on this?

We're producing under better circumstances than most companies.
Don't let such a reason slow down the production or cause a rework of the board.
Every rework can cause unexpected errors (see the RAM).
Simply use those Tantalum Capacitors.

Great news BTW

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Maybe the USA should bring De Mockery to those Tantalum producing countries, too?

 

[CrystalGamma]

Maybe the USA should bring De Mockery to those Tantalum producing countries, too?

Do you think it will end up any better than the oil countries? Or the banana republics, for that matter?

 

[Eight Bit]

Half the world is wearing gold which is the biggest conflict material of all and no one can tell where theirs comes from...
Maybe we shouldn't be too hung up on this, it would be a tad hypocrite, especially if you have Apple and Samsung electronics at home too. (I do)
I know even little bits help too but I doubt 1000 Pyra's will fuel the war in Congo.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

@CrystalGamma The hint is in the choice of words.

 

[gpsqueeek]

Thanks for sharing the good news and the TODO list!

Regarding that tantalum capacitor : as several have suggested, Fairphone might be willing to help (maybe the help they will give is "well we tried and failed, don't loose time" or "hey here is our cool provider, give them a call" or "weeeeell eeeeeh we found one but buy everything from them so we'd prefer if you found someone else", I have no idea).
If you cannot find a tantalum alternative or an ethical tantalum source, then I'd prefer to have the silent Pyra, although it hurts me to state this.

By the way, I recently bought an Olimex Teres-A64 (an open source 11" ARM laptop kit) and there is a noise like that (related to the backlight so the noise disappears with full backlight or no backlight (which means you can't see what is displayed, kind of annoying)) but they noticed the issue only when customers told them. The easiest solution for those who got a noisy laptop : add some adhesive to lower the mechanical vibrations of the capacitor (there might also be a software solution to change the PWM frequency, which would be awsome). I have not tried it yet, but may try some time (sorry, I will not reduce my sleeping time for that, I am a squirrel, not a dragon)

I hope this helps !

 

[mclien]

Thanks for this great update and no worries about Pyra not beeing a christmas "gift" for us. I love to see some thing in this world beeing finished!
As for the capacitors: no Tantalium or a conflict free source is my vote.

 

[pmprog]

Tantalum capacitors are not an issue for me, and personally, I think given what's been pumping out of GPD lately, more delays searching for "the ultimate solution" is going to impact your sales.
I will admit that my interest is waning, with the only thing that's keeping me looking at a Pyra at the minute is the 3G modem and GPS on-board.

 

[pyrat]

I appreaciate efforts to avoid conflict minerals. I don't need a pocket computer so much that people have to die or endure slavery for it.
I have no expertise to contribute on how to verify claims companies make on that or how to solve the electronics, so sorry to not be very useful.
I saw this, with links to organizations that might help, besides Fairphone as already said. But it is maybe too general.

Are you sure you can send prototypes to FCC/EC test ? What if the production units are different ?
I thought you finish the product first then send the same device you'll sell to FCC/EC and then you either
mass produce and sell it if it passes or reiterate if it fails. The changes being considered seem like
they could help lower emissions (but I know nothing about the subject). So the version with these
changes is more, not less, likely to pass FCC/EC, isn't it ? So why not send that to test and skip
the current prototype ?

But please take some rest.

Thank you

 

[Hellfleck]

if you can get conflict free caps, sure why not ... if not, the Pyra is a low volume product and a few thousand caps won't make difference at all

 

[SneHebNor]

I'm currently in pre-christmas hell (normal for an online shop, I guess)

Did you get the organic sweets that I used as packaging material? :~)

 

[rohezal]

You can buy tantalum from Australia, there shouldn't be any human rights violations (except for refugees). Or maybe from Brazil. There are other sources than DR.

 

[PokeParadox]

Merry Xmas ED and thank you for your continued dedication.

 

[WizardStan]

Does the capacitor have any effect on audio quality itself? Like, if I plug in headphones, will I hear a background hiss? Do the speakers themselves make this sound or are the appropriately silent?
Or is the only issue that the capacitor makes this high pitched whine? And how close do you need to be to actually hear it? I remember you saying you could only hear it when getting up close to it, that it otherwise had no effect on the system, in which case it might be annoying when using it in a standard phone configuration against your face (if we work out how to do that) but it is hardly a no-go issue, and you should really consider the type and size of impact it'll have on the end user before you seriously consider violating your own morals. Is it better for us to suffer with a little bit of hiss than it is to buy into an industry you oppose? There is a line where such issues could make the Pyra completely unmarketable and in that case you would, unfortunately, need to go with what the rest of the industry does, but which side of the line are we on now?

 

[EvilDragon]

Did you get the organic sweets that I used as packaging material? :~)

Yes My dog actually found them and opened the box
I found him unboxing BEFORE he could grab any though

Thanks
[doublepost=1513599815,1513599768][/doublepost]

Does the capacitor have any effect on audio quality itself? Like, if I plug in headphones, will I hear a background hiss? Do the speakers themselves make this sound or are the appropriately silent?

It's not the audio that makes the sound - the capacitors itself do that. And they have nothing to do with the audio circuit

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Does the capacitor have any effect on audio quality itself? Like, if I plug in headphones, will I hear a background hiss? Do the speakers themselves make this sound or are the appropriately silent?
Or is the only issue that the capacitor makes this high pitched whine? And how close do you need to be to actually hear it? I remember you saying you could only hear it when getting up close to it, that it otherwise had no effect on the system, in which case it might be annoying when using it in a standard phone configuration against your face (if we work out how to do that) but it is hardly a no-go issue, and you should really consider the type and size of impact it'll have on the end user before you seriously consider violating your own morals. Is it better for us to suffer with a little bit of hiss than it is to buy into an industry you oppose? There is a line where such issues could make the Pyra completely unmarketable and in that case you would, unfortunately, need to go with what the rest of the industry does, but which side of the line are we on now?

I'd say noise can be a strain, even if you cannot consciously hear it.

 

[WizardStan]

It's not the audio that makes the sound - the capacitors itself do that. And they have nothing to do with the audio circuit

That's what I thought.
And how close do you need to get before it becomes noticeable?

 

[sebt3]

This issue should be fixed in the lastest main board revision that hns is currently testing.
The capacitor noise may be not noticable in some situations. But in a quiet room and lot's of current drawn from the usb port and you will nitice the noise from 1m away easily

 

[ahahah]

thanks for these very good nows.

i just wonder if the battery life issue is finaly fixed. i remember to have read that it was not as good as the pandora whereas it has a greater capacity.

 

[Bernd]

In wide ranges of the car industry tantalum capacitors got banned because of their tendency to catch fire.

As far I knew, the cheaper a ceramic capacitor is, the more likely it screams.
The higher the rated voltage, the less the tendency to scream.