Information from phone module

[pmprog]

I've got in mind a project for the Pyra, and was wondering how much information will be available from the phone module, if anyone knows?

I assuming it'll still connect to masts for the Emergency Call requirements even if I don't plug a SIM in?

Basically, I'm planning a Pyra version of Llama. It's a great piece of kit, and it implies it just changes audio profiles based on your location, but it is so much more. You can trigger on time, GPS location, Phone mast, application running, wifi connection (SSID), etc. and get it to do all sorts of tasks

Also, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, so I assume not, but thought I'd ask. Is there NFC support on the Pyra? I don't actually use NFC at the minute, but it gives even more options for triggering events

 

[Bosbeetle]

That would be cool

 

[thatgui]

Also, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, so I assume not, but thought I'd ask. Is there NFC support on the Pyra? I don't actually use NFC at the minute, but it gives even more options for triggering events

As this hasn't popped up in any of EDs or Gta04s posts I think we can safely assume that the Pyra won't have that feature.

But great thinking, I had the "idea" too (but only in the "that would be cool" not the "I'll make this" direction)

 

[pmprog]

Also, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, so I assume not, but thought I'd ask. Is there NFC support on the Pyra? I don't actually use NFC at the minute, but it gives even more options for triggering events

As this hasn't popped up in any of EDs or Gta04s posts I think we can safely assume that the Pyra won't have that feature.

Thought that would probably be the case...
No big loss really, but would have been cool to have a sticker in your car that activates Bluetooth and streams your music to your car (except that my car doesn't have bluetooth anyway)

 

[WizardStan]

Complete list of AT commands. Read this to find out what information can be pulled from the chip.

 

[thatgui]

No big loss really, but would have been cool to have a sticker in your car that activates Bluetooth and streams your music to your car (except that my car doesn't have bluetooth anyway)

Hmm, you could try to use the accelerometer to check wether the Pyra accelerates fast enough to be on some kind of vehicle, but I guess at that point its already too late.

 

[pmprog]

Complete list of AT commands. Read this to find out what information can be pulled from the chip.

Thanks, that's really handy!

 

[Grench]

I assuming it'll still connect to masts for the Emergency Call requirements even if I don't plug a SIM in?

That may be a false assumption.  I can logically argue that the Pyra is not a phone.  To my understanding, the wireless 4G module is an extra add-on, and is not standard.  It is an open connected device - akin to a tablet or computer.  Just like a connected tablet or computer it can be hacked/made to make voice calls.  BUT, that is not a primary function of the device.

Given the open nature of the device, someone will likely eventually make voice calling work on it.

 

[levi]

He means it will connect to masts - not make calls to the emergency services.  It'll probably do the former without you interacting with it at all (provided you turned it on), because it'll need to know what masts are around in case you do in the future decide to make a call.  Whether it'll tell you about the masts it's seen when you're not authorised to talk to any of them (except for to make an emergency call) is a different matter, and I've not read up on the AT commands well enough to say if it'll work.

 

[rygD]

Basically, I'm planning a Pyra version of Llama. It's a great piece of kit, and it implies it just changes audio profiles based on your location, but it is so much more. You can trigger on time, GPS location, Phone mast, application running, wifi connection (SSID), etc. and get it to do all sorts of tasks

I am using something that does the same kind of stuff.  I think it was made by Motorola, so no clue if it works on non-Motorola devices.  It would be really great if we could get something like this pretty soon after launch.  I am not sure what the plan is for cellular service in North America, however I can think of a few options that would still be useful in the wifi only model, like telling me to go to sleep, then shutting everything off.

 

[pmprog]

He means it will connect to masts - not make calls to the emergency services.  It'll probably do the former without you interacting with it at all (provided you turned it on), because it'll need to know what masts are around in case you do in the future decide to make a call.  Whether it'll tell you about the masts it's seen when you're not authorised to talk to any of them (except for to make an emergency call) is a different matter, and I've not read up on the AT commands well enough to say if it'll work.

Exactly this

 

[thatgui]

I stumbled upon Cuttlefish about five minutes ago, it seems to do similar things. Unfortunately it looks like its dead, but maybe some ideas (or more) could be borrowed ?

 

[pmprog]

Possibly. Though I've got plenty from Llama, and I guess if and when it's (my location app, not the Pyra) released, Pyra users will suggest some

 

[comradekingu]

I assuming it'll still connect to masts for the Emergency Call requirements even if I don't plug a SIM in?

That may be a false assumption.  I can logically argue that the Pyra is not a phone.  To my understanding, the wireless 4G module is an extra add-on, and is not standard.  It is an open connected device - akin to a tablet or computer.  Just like a connected tablet or computer it can be hacked/made to make voice calls.  BUT, that is not a primary function of the device.

Given the open nature of the device, someone will likely eventually make voice calling work on it.

If you remove the phone-part from a regular smartphone you are left with a tablet/slate.

One is better for sending text-messages, the other looks less awkward when you hold it up to your ear. At any rate its a pretty basic difference, and phone at this point is a very moot argument.

 

[Grench]

This does bring up some interesting things, though.

Since the GPS will likely be embedded in the phone circuitry, I may want the module in my Pyra even if I cannot use it with a local mobile carrier.

Will the GPS be able to activate without inserting a SIM card?

What other sensors on the wireless could/would be able to work without carrier?

 

[pmprog]

I can't imagine why the GPS would require a SIM card - GPS receivers don't connect to network cells.

If anything other than the phone/modem requires a SIM card, I'd be shocked and horrified to be honest

 

[Grench]

I can't imagine why the GPS would require a SIM card - GPS receivers don't connect to network cells.

If anything other than the phone/modem requires a SIM card, I'd be shocked and horrified to be honest

Many (most?) phones use AGPS (Assisted GPS). It uses cell tower signals and locations to get a faster lock than standard GPS can.

My understanding is that it works by bouncing a signal to the nearest towers to ask, 'where are you?'. The tower responses gives the information that allows the phone to gather a rough location, which then can be used to give a more exact location with fewer sat signals locked.

So, I'm wondering if the GPS on the Pyra can be used without the AGPS active (which would likely require a SIM card). Are there any other sensors in the phone module that might be interesting? Can they be used without a SIM card?

 

[pmprog]

Many (most?) phones use AGPS (Assisted GPS). It uses cell tower signals and locations to get a faster lock than standard GPS can

As far as I understand, AGPS is solely for speeding up GPS signal lock, and not actually a source of location. So AGPS doesn't replace your GPS, rather is an addition
Wiki pretty much sums this up if I'm reading it right

Assisted GPS (abbreviated generally as A-GPS and less commonly as aGPS) is a system that is often able to significantly improve the startup performance, or time-to-first-fix (TTFF), of a GPS satellite-based positioning system

 

[levi]

My phone uses cell tower triangulation initially, then resolves the location tighter as it gets up to three satellite locks.


In addition, presumably knowing rough location speeds up some part of satellite aquisition - my old GPS watch would ask me if I was in the same location as I was last time I turned it off before searching for satellites. Perhaps it just means it knows what satellites to look for, dunno.

 

[Binky]

Heres my explanation, for what its worth:

GPS satelites, IIRC, transmit the time to a very high precision.

The reciever compares the time signals it recieves to each other, and uses the difference to find the time-of-flight from the satelite to the reciver.

Since it knows the speed of light, it can work out the distance fom the satelite and place itself somewhere on the surface of an imaginary sphere around the satelite.

If we add a second satelite, we know that we must be on the intersection of two spheres (a circle)

A third puts us on the intersection of three spheres, which turns out to be two points.

A fourth satelite is needed to narrow it down to one point.

However, if we know rough position already,  we can eliminate one of the two points without the need for a fourth satelite, so shortening the satelite aquisition process.

Other assumptions, like that we are on the surface of the earth, might help too.