If tablets are today's fad...


Hmmm, whilst places like where I currently work still exist Microsoft will be laughing all the way to teh bank. My place of employment simply refuses to use any bit of software unless it's microsoft. It's irritating. At least I get paid but I must move on...
 
I like where they are going with windows phone and windows 8 looks amazing.
It certainly is a big change. I gave the developer preview of windows 8 a spin and, in my not so humble opinion, it's absolutely horrible to use.


It might work on a phone, but it only detracts from usability on the desktop.
 
It's Really meant to used with touchscreen devices in my opinion, though it does still have the classic desktop built right in so no loss there.
 
Steve Jobs is effectively gone. We'll see if Apple's "special" people approach keeps up without him.


If we're talking the tablet sector we're talking about the evolving pocket computer/PDA concept, which since smart phones showed up has had an emphasis on connectivity. Clamshell designs like NEC, Sony, and others have been developing and reintegration of stylus technology like HTC and Lenovo have been pursuing are likely to become increasingly popular in this area. Windows in particular has put a lot of time in handwriting recognition technology so should drive the market further that way when Windows 8 hits the market. Handwriting input should allow for more natural input that takes advantage of the platforms strengths instead of emphasizing what it's not. Dual screen clamshells have advantages in terms of allowing a more flexible multitasking environment and being more easy designed for pockets.


Most people I've actually seen using 10" class tablets basically are using them kind of like an electronic clipboard. They're relatively lightweight and designed so they can use it without having to sit down/find a table, which is a impractical proposition with a laptop and they're being heavily used for day planner/schedule purposes. Clearly though the larger market response is it's a lightweight portable internet portal with most designs having the cellular modem issues handled by someone else and hence "just works" without them having to understand it anymore then their power, water, or sewage. Combine that with the popularity of things like Facebook and YouTube it's really not that hard to understand why there's a demand.
 
What I can't quite understand is how people cannot see, that for the majority, Windows and Intel are dying and soon to be dead, dead, dead.


ARM and Android (with iOS coming second) are here to stay at least for the next 5-8 years.


Talking about Windows will be like 'lol myspace' in a few years.
You do realize Intel makes Apple's desktop and laptop processors right? I'm not the hugest Winfan so it can stay or go as far as I care but I'm pretty sure Intel is going to be around for quite some time.
 
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Apple, PC doesn't matter to me... I will just format the Hard-drive and throw Linux on it.
 
What I can't quite understand is how people cannot see, that for the majority, Windows and Intel are dying and soon to be dead, dead, dead.


ARM and Android (with iOS coming second) are here to stay at least for the next 5-8 years.


Talking about Windows will be like 'lol myspace' in a few years.
In this instance you are wrong, and I never said anything about Intel anyway I'm talking windows 8 which will run on ARM!!


All info/videos I have read/seen of windows 8 so far really make me think "wow" i can really see Microsoft are starting to get back on the ball.


Its quite clear to anyone who actually takes notice (instead of wearing apple goggles) that Microsoft have realized that not innovating like Apple was getting them no where and cost them alot of "mindshare" etc, but now they have really woke up!


I like where they are going with windows phone and windows 8 looks amazing.
Not to mention if you're a linux fan the last OS you should like is Macs OS. It actually hamstrings your computer hence the reason anyone running bootcamp on their Mac get better performance from it through Windows (shocking I know, but true). Mac OS does what Apple wants it to do not what you want it to do which is why I've always hated Apple PCs...their iproducts are decent though.
 
This is why the PC gaming market has shrunk so heavily. If all you need the PC for is games, then a console starts to look like a good idea.

Despite the chant of people wanting to see the PC gaming market die since 1985 total PC game sale revenue is still larger then total console revenues at 13.1 Billion USD verse 9.91 Billion USD in software related sales. Not to mention the PC software ecosystem is thriving and developing market.


If you remove Nintendo from that equation, as the people usually advocating the death of PC gaming for their proprietary "equivalent" consoles effectively do, that figure drops like a rock and the entire notion of that statement is simply absurd. This garbage has been going on for 26 years now, and the only thing that's kind of changed is you have a lot of people who are delusional enough to think Microsoft/Sony hardware is somehow immune to silicon process and processor design improvements so the highly questionable claim of it having similar power to a top shelf gaming computer at launch is still valid two major process shrinks later, because gaming magic dust is involved.


For people wanting to make hash out of Activision-Blizzard's activities with home consoles I present to you

https://www.youtube.com/embed/cjflJwGsCgE?feature=oembed and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDiB-bJ8D7c.
 
This is why the PC gaming market has shrunk so heavily. If all you need the PC for is games, then a console starts to look like a good idea.

Despite the chant of people wanting to see the PC gaming market die since 1985 total PC game sale revenue is still larger then total console revenues at 13.1 Billion USD verse 9.91 Billion USD in software related sales. Not to mention the PC software ecosystem is thriving and developing market.


If you remove Nintendo from that equation, as the people usually advocating the death of PC gaming for their proprietary "equivalent" consoles effectively do, that figure drops like a rock and the entire notion of that statement is simply absurd. This garbage has been going on for 26 years now, and the only thing that's kind of changed is you have a lot of people who are delusional enough to think Microsoft/Sony hardware is somehow immune to silicon process and processor design improvements so the highly questionable claim of it having similar power to a top shelf gaming computer at launch is still valid two major process shrinks later, because gaming magic dust is involved.


For people wanting to make hash out of Activision-Blizzard's activities with home consoles I present to you

https://www.youtube.com/embed/cjflJwGsCgE?feature=oembed
Not to mention that graphics evolution over that same time period has been due to computers...NOT CONSOLES...which have the relatively same graphics capabilities on the day they're obsolete as they did the day they were new. Console people seem to forget this fact.
 
I remember the first XBox, built with modular components like a PC (really, it was just a PC) was billed as "the last console you'll ever need" or something like that. The marketing suggested there wouldn't be sequels, just periodic updates to a specific component. New CPU, new RAM, new GPU, new mobo, start the whole cycle over. Obviously that did not work out as intended. :p
 
Most game consoles are just neutered PCs, when you boil it down.

Except for a few examples where computers were basically re-branded as consoles this has almost never been the case. Look at the CPUs in today consoles, they're nothing like what's used in PCs. After 3D accelerators became popular on computers the same vendors eventually supplanted custom 3D solutions on consoles, but only really as of this generation.. and even then AMD has still tried different things on consoles.

Not to mention that graphics evolution over that same time period has been due to computers...NOT CONSOLES...which have the relatively same graphics capabilities on the day they're obsolete as they did the day they were new. Console people seem to forget this fact.

I find it questionable that it's 3D accelerators on PCs that have driven 3D gaming... it was arcade gaming that really pushed it, which then translated to the first home consoles with 3D like 3DO/Jaguar then PS1/Saturn. Sure, accelerator cards started coming out around this time too but they didn't really catch on until after the consoles were popular. GPU hardware quickly surpassing home consoles is a fairly recent phenomenon, and it takes even longer for the two to really be in the same price league.. and even then consoles still have the advantage of not having to work through thickly abstracted 3D APIs.


Digging back further the trend was still present in 2D hardware. In the early 80s there were various computers launched that had good gaming-oriented 2D hardware, probably because they were overtaking the crumbling console market. But as PC and Mac became the dominant platforms instead of C64/Amiga/Atari this stopped really being the case and you were stuck with graphics that were just framebuffers with some paging, scrolling, and write mode capabilities.. maybe some blits. If you compare typical 1991 PC games with SNES games I think you'll generally find that the latter looks better.. sure, much faster CPUs on the PC front let you do some things that you couldn't do on consoles very well but for games suited for 2D consoles they really excelled at it. There's a reason why it takes a lot of CPU grunt to emulate SNES's graphics subsystem.

I remember the first XBox, built with modular components like a PC (really, it was just a PC) was billed as "the last console you'll ever need" or something like that. The marketing suggested there wouldn't be sequels, just periodic updates to a specific component. New CPU, new RAM, new GPU, new mobo, start the whole cycle over. Obviously that did not work out as intended. :p

Even the original XBox didn't use purely off the shelf parts and they certainly weren't replaceable via a socket. You could replace the CPU and RAM with laptop parts, but it involved soldering on an interface board because the pinouts aren't the same (and it's all BGA so not that easy to mess with). And while it was very similar to PC it still had its major differences, like using a CPU that was in between a P3 and a Celeron and a GPU that was in between a GeForce 3 and a GeForce 4 (this was released before GF4 was out), and running everything on a unified memory bus.
 
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These Consoles used the Hardware much more efficient than the PC did for obvious reasons,, so I guess the slower components are not that big problem, even today. Still impressive what they can pull out of the Consoles and Handhelds today, even if it seems not that effective anymore than it was in the past (Donkey Kong Country and so on)
 
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These Consoles used the Hardware much more efficient than the PC did for obvious reasons,, so I guess the slower components are not that big problem, even today. Still impressive what they can pull out of the Consoles and Handhelds today, even if it seems not that effective anymore than it was in the past (Donkey Kong Country and so on)

Maybe, but if we're talking Microsoft/Sony's 7th generation consoles the lack of Out of Order bits plus the memory limitations lead to inferior performance verse x86 processors of the relevant vintage using effectively the same GPU. A good example of this is an x86 tri-core with Radeon X1900 running Crysis at 1440x900 with respectable settings, while the XBox 360 and PS3 struggle mightily with managing 1280x720 with a much less computationally intensive feature configuration. Both platforms were also noted for having been cost inefficient verse computer hardware in terms of real costs.


For me the point of consoles to a large extent is embodied with things like the Nintendo Wii. By the nature of not needing to be computers you can design quirky hardware and control systems to handle different types of gaming instead of being forced to design around a keyboard/mouse.


I'm not against consoles, but I do take issue with current tendencies from what looks like may actually have been an intentional propaganda campaign to try to destroy Nintendo so Sony/Microsoft wouldn't get pinched like they're about to.


-I don't appreciate people advocating the movement towards having less control over your computer, or insisting on being pointlessly inflammatory towards "The Man."


-I don't appreciate people for who a gamepad is the proverbial hammer of the proverbial carpenter in possession of a single tool. I have Saitek's take on the Dual Shock gamepad attached to my computer and it's excellent for 3D environment platform games. I used a Gravis Gamepad back in the day which was excellent for platformers. That doesn't make them the end all and be all from gaming control input.


-I don't appreciate the related incessant whining about motion control and why things shouldn't just stagnate around stagnant gamepad designs.


-I grew with access to Commodore, Atari, and Nintendo systems. Maybe I've just biased because that but as far as I've seen Nintendo is the only console company actually trying to drive console development instead of just taking the same old controller setup and just throwing newer hardware at it, and at best responding to what other people are doing like Sony and Microsoft are as far as I can see.


-I really don't appreciate that people going with Sony/Microsoft that seem to have some odd notion they're somehow the one's pulling a fast one based on real verse effective cost, also seem bent of insulting every other platform. Whether it's whining that computers are simply too complicated to operate, particularly with those eviiil drivers you might actually have to update or taking pot shots at Nintendo the tone doesn't change. They're "special" and everyone else "sucks." The Macintosh fans have been spewing much the same for over a decade now while also advocating how they're just on the brink of enslaving everyone else to their way of doing things.

I find it questionable that it's 3D accelerators on PCs that have driven 3D gaming... it was arcade gaming that really pushed it, which then translated to the first home consoles with 3D like 3DO/Jaguar then PS1/Saturn. Sure, accelerator cards started coming out around this time too but they didn't really catch on until after the consoles were popular. GPU hardware quickly surpassing home consoles is a fairly recent phenomenon, and it takes even longer for the two to really be in the same price league.. and even then consoles still have the advantage of not having to work through thickly abstracted 3D APIs.
The [Direct]XBox doesn't have to work through Microsoft's "Thickly abstracted " 3D API? That customized version of OpenGL the PS3 uses isn't a "Thickly abstracted " 3D API? Really?

Wing Commander 3 came out in 1994, requiring a 486 and a "graphics accelerator" while representing one of the stronger movements in early 3D. Note the Pentium showed up in 1993, and that not only was S3 founded in 1989, and had "graphical accelerators" out in 1991 even if they weren't really considered "3D accelerators" until 1998. The Playstation 1 came out the same year and would get the game in 1996. The Sega Saturn never got Wing Commander, but also came out in 1994 as a 32-bit system. The 3DO came out in 1993 and utterly flopped.


From there we move on to Quake 1 and Quake 2, which represent the most influential 3D games and engines before the introduction of programmable shaders. The PS1's port of Quake 2 incidentally was noteworthy for not being up to the level of contemporary computers as "3D accelerators" instead of "graphical accelerators" came online and the OpenGL API took hold. So I'm not see how you're defending it drove things at that step along the way. The standard for programable shaders was basically set by IdTech4, and HDR lighting effects and physics by Half Life 2's Source and the less talked about CryEngine 1 so I'm going to tend to question the level of console involvement in the the development of the current generation of 3D that can fake lifelike reasonably well.


This isn't helped by the fact the PS1's star game was in many respects Final Fantasy VII, which needless to say wasn't exactly what you'd call super advanced over Wing Commander in its 3D efforts.
 
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Nice post Jebe. I don't really follow all of it but I'm with you on the console fanboys.


I don't care for a lot of PC gaming simply because they don't have what I like. I wish they came out with some sort of lightweight OS that ran mostly nothing but games, though, so the true power of PC hardware could be realized. I think today's desktop OSes hinder more than they help in resource usage vs libraries (for functionality). I also tend to think gaming (on both PCs and consoles) isn't as optimized as it used to be because of higher level languages and more capable hardware. If developers really squeezed as much as they could from PCs the same way they did just two or three generations ago in consoles, how much capability would we be witnessing? I'm positive we could do better than shit like Rage and Bulletstorm, what with texture pop-in and other problems that retail games frankly should not ship with. The general culture in PS3/Xbox/PC game development is "release now, patch later when fans are angry". It's disrespectful to the consumers that keep them afloat and lazy as hell. Would you pay $40-60 for a game like Rage?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/mLuOtGwLnzQ?feature=oembed

Seriously, I'd have went back to the store and demanded my money back.


That said, I prefer handhelds and Nintendo consoles. Mostly because they don't follow that "release now, patch later" mentality, are a little better about squeezing power from the system, and feature franchises I like. I'd get into the others if they offered something I wanted. *shrugs* I'm somewhat interested in the PS3 due to Catherine, Demon's Souls, and having some classic PS1 games, but it's still not enough for me to plunk down $300. Then there's the PSN debacle and Other OS that was gutted from the system. MS is MS. Aside from that, horrible hardware reliability is not something I want to sign up for. And nothing on the system interests me. Nothing!


As far as fads go... I dunno what's next. With Steve Jobs gone, they'll follow the last ideas he had before he died and the steam will eventually run out. People will want to keep their tablets relevant, so I imagine smaller devices that can interact with their tablet. I could see tablets getting TV streaming apps or video input adapters and being turned into really slim TVs for consoles or something. I think it'll eventually reach a point where everything is on one device, but does none of those tasks particularly well, and the convenience will wear off when these people start expecting their gadgets to do _better_ things, not necessarily _more_. Basically, quality will start mattering over quantity again.
 
Not to mention if you're a linux fan the last OS you should like is Macs OS. It actually hamstrings your computer hence the reason anyone running bootcamp on their Mac get better performance from it through Windows (shocking I know, but true). Mac OS does what Apple wants it to do not what you want it to do which is why I've always hated Apple PCs...their iproducts are decent though.

Wow... I guess I just imagined the Terminal in my version of OSX then? Surely Apple wouldn't allow users access to such a dangerous and powerful command line if they only wanted their uses to download music from iTunes and cruise the internet calling out Linux fanbois for being immune to reality. Amazing, also, how I can just download and install any software I like! And how the hell can you reconcile these two contradictory points:


1) Apple only want you to do what they want you to do, blah blah blah herp derp


2) Apple provide first party support and drivers for installing Windows on your Mac


Where else have I heard this sort of absurd ignorance to facts... ahh... yes


1) We were all created a thousand years ago by god derp herp derp


2) Overwhelming and consistent proof to the contrary


The performance boost in Windows only applies to games. This may or may not have something to do with DirectX or Cider wrappers, but as you don't seem to care about facts, I'll spare you an explanation.


Apple are constantly raising the bar. Their entry-level computer ships with an SSD for crying out loud.


Call me a fanboi if you like, but the fact remains I probably administer more linux servers than you do.
 
Amazing, also, how I can just download and install any software I like!
I noticed that, too! My Mac only has the software I want on it - I'm free to remove what I don't want, too. :blink:

Apple are constantly raising the bar. Their entry-level computer ships with an SSD for crying out loud.
Wait, really?


I shouldn't be surprised, really, should I? I mean, people considered it crazy when they dropped floppy disk drives in favour of USB ports, and we all know how that went... It was a logical move.
 
I am in the habit of rescuing floppy drives from old PCs dumped in skips.
 
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