iCP2: They're throwing in the towel.

[Jumpman]

Hmm I didn't get this email from Craig, is this email from Kickstarter?   Now that its dead in the water and refunds maybe looking dubious especially from Craig, I wonder if a charge back claim would be appropraite..

I've read in other places that a "charge back" isn't normally an option, as KS is an investment like buying stocks, and just because ICP2 didn't end up as intended, that doesn't mean there was a fraud taking place. Maybe someone else can give more info in this area.

Chris

 

[darkborn]

^ It is odd considering he had already done the ICP1, that he couldn't manage the ICP2 which was essentially an ICP1 with a keyboard.  Strange when you think about it like that

I agree^ I thought this was a no brainer production wise, but I guess I was very wrong


... I'm still not sure the lights didn't doom this project, but who knows what happened really. ...

Chris

^ It is odd considering he had already done the ICP1 that he couldn't manage the ICP2 which was essentially an ICP1 with a keyboard.  Strange when you think about it like that

Unless I'm mistaken, the ICP1 had it's fair share of issues and was also rescued to a greater or lesser degree by others. The ICP2 is the first time Craig has been left to sink or swim on his own. But I can't remember where or exactly what I read, so don't quote me on that. 

Ed said so. Like 6 months of fuck ups. It was all behind the scenes though so we never knew.

ICP was a DECOY for ICP2. Game over. Craig won, you suck. (edit: "LED"s were just a fiction to buy time. When I first time saw that LED BS I knew that it is doomed - and planned robbery)

In any case, yes, I am saying that everyone who backed the iCP2 is a fool. Categorically so. I was part of the original Pandora debacle, yes, but my getting on board was based on careful research and interaction with Craig prior to that. I was a part of the GP2X community, and I was a regular customer of GBAX.com where I had absolutely zero issues with Craig and the service he provided. On the surface, there was no evidence at all that things would go tits up.

They did though, and I was lucky enough to get my Pandora in the first batch. Having seen the fallout as Craig went from bad to worse, there was no way in hell I was going to back any kickstarter campaign of his, despite the successful funding.


My question is: Why, having done your research (and seen for yourself the enormous fuckup he made of the Pandora and to an extent the iCP1) did you back him?


My assessment stands, I believe.


D.

Dear Dunny, you're not so smart as you think.

I suppose that you are from UK, aren't you? I am 100% sure that most of the people that got Pandoras (especially from the first batch) from Craig are from UK. The reason is simple: it is 1000:1 probability that some angry maniac who paid for gadget and got nothing in return, and pour acid in his face, would not come from e.g. China. It could be ONLY local guy (Or working for KGB. h34r: ). Craig is smart enough to mess around with people ONLY if he's sure they will NOT knock on his door personally. Like his old customers, mostly UK.


Also, I suppose that mr Ramboky is from US, and he will get... nothing. Unless he is working for CIA :rolleyes:

You were not "lucky enough to get Pandora in the first batch". YOU were just a DECOY for all others, just a "business loss" for Craig's real plan.

Btw, just a few weeks ago, you wanted to buy a cheaper battery for Pandora from Craig, "old pall"!  As I remember, only reason why you didn't, was that ED said to you that those batteries are probably half power than new ones. So much about "careful research" and "no way in hell" you trade with Craig.


@Craig: As I said here dozens of time, Craig is kind of people that enjoys to scrw people, even if he got hurt in process.


I feel shame for that so many people here covered Craig for YEARS, just because of their selfish interest: "please, hush, or we will not get our Pandora..." And Craig was right: with characters like those, you can drive them for years.

Those that insult other people just because "they got lucky enough" (??) and other didn't... are not better either.


@GBAX.com: Young Craig was just learning. He found out that most of people that he scrw unintentionally, will not make a big deal of that. In time, he learned that he can play with hundreds of people, just loaning money from one project to other, with other investor's money. Pandora was probably his first "big" game. If he won, everybody's happy. If project becomes problematic, he already got other people money. ED can confirm that calculations for Pandora was wrong from beginning, there was no way to make it just for a part of a real cost. But that was just a way to get other people money: when you fish first few thousands "supporters", other will come much easier. But nobody knew (or plan) that beside Craig.


Prove for those statements and for his sick behaviour was his last video:

10 Kickstarter tips from a $209k project

He HAS TO show himself as a "wiseguy" who rob $209,100 and people even can't get it! He is so PROUD on himself that he has to share his "success", and this video is "portfolio" for future scam projects.

(just look at his last "advice" closely, put it in actual circumstances... he is sociopath. He KNEW what he is doing.)

I suppose that his next project will be regular one, successful, but not with his name shown publicly. First following that will be ... well, now you should find out cliché yourself, I think. Or be robbed (again).

 

[_wb_]

It's a disaster! It's a complete disaster! We failed! Hahaha!

 

[darkborn]

Does ANYBODY here remember avatar of Craig?

He took Withnail for himself (and Marwood, other main character, was obviously reserved for ED), from a poster for "Withnail and I", weird dark but classic British comedy.

Withnail is alcoholic, wanna-be-actor, snob, and "great" con artist. He will f*k his very own and only partner just because he feels good at it. Even if he's hurt.

When Craig took this avatar, it was spitting in face to all of us. Satisfaction for all "nice and friendly guy" actings that he has to perform.

https://twitter.com/Craigix

Watch the movie and you'll find out.

 

[Klumpen]

Well, since we have been called bullies and conspiracy theorists and everything reveals itself to be true, what are we naggers now?

Honesty is extremely important to me and when someone lied or fishy things add up, I never do any kind of business with him (again) and I always end friendships because of lies. It is simple but effective. Liars do not survive in my world and I can recommend that, otherwise they will show their full potential sooner or later.

You could see that Craig does not have the slightest amount of honour for a long time now

and people gave him more and more money - blows my mind.

 

[darkborn]

It's a disaster! It's a complete disaster! We failed! Hahaha!

Great example! You got it now, from different perspective. Most things he did, he did with a "secret agenda" (as a intelligent sociopaths usually do).

He was celebrating then, because "failing" is not an option in his business plan.


Just remember his "Votka @ roof" early Pandora video: that was first time I started to worry about Project. Message was clear: " I am on the top of the world, mammy!" ...just... I did not know why he is doing it (situation was already bad). Just for the end, I'll show you how Craig see name of his last project:

I (con & troll) control (all the) pad (not you!).  It was hypnotic sentence that everybody hooks at easily: "I control pad!" Of course, real control he reserved for himself.

He becomes not just alcoholic, he is adrenaline addict, and addicted to some more horrible thing: like those who jumps at front of train and slip away in last second - those people who seriously risk all they have just because at those moments they feel "alive". "Blade runners".

What a vast of time, he is so unfinished product, like all those things he touch. Maybe, when he steal enough money, he will implant himself very missing part of brain of normal adult person. Until that, I can't see "great combinator" like he sees himself, just an Igor:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/yH97lImrr0Q?feature=oembed

 

[moxie]

*Sigh* Can we please keep the discussion to a level where Craig can't come back and sue ED for spreading defamation?

 

[kasp]

Called it.

Was so obvious the entire project was going down the drain when he said the LED lights were to blame for the delays.  Now it doesn't even look like he produced anything and has just siphoned the money away somewhere else. Also the bullshit reason he gave for the 1 Ghz money vanishing and it is obvious what has occurred.  At some point Craigs mentality change from that of wanting to supply a product and earn money to wanting to bleed the community.

Anyways I believe Craig is now officially a scammer.  Michael's explanation on why he stopped pretty much cements that. 

*Sigh* Can we please keep the discussion to a level where Craig can't come back and sue ED for spreading defamation?

An international defamation case against someone you have ripped off tens of thousands of dollars is an extremely unlikely scenario. Especially considering he would have to prove it to be untrue and I think he might struggle with that.

Not sure in others countries but an easy way to avoid it in mine is just add I believe to your statements   Not defamation if it's an opinion.

Also I feel sorry for Michael, craig has pretty much thrown him under the bus with his reason why the project failed.  However in true Craig fashion it is everyone else fault but his own.

 

[WizardStan]

Especially considering he would have to prove it to be untrue and I think he might struggle with that

He would only have to prove it to be untrue in court, it doesn't take nearly so much evidence to make problems for the people involved. Most lawyers probably wouldn't take it, but I'm sure there's one or two that like free money and have some free time between actual cases.

 

[moxie]

I've written it before, but I'll write it again: In Craigs version of reality, it is ED who has stabbed him in the back (well, ED and the rest of the world, but I digress), who hasn't fulfilled his contractual obligations and so on. That is his story, anyway, and he seems to stick to it. Now, if his motion to strike off Openpandora Ltd meets with some sort of resistance (such as, for instance, a bunch of preorderers claiming that they are creditors in the case, or someone who shows up with proof that he has indeed been trading in the last three months) which means he'll have his dealings under proper legal examination, then the obvious way to counter that, legally, is to follow through on his story and go after ED (the alternative would be that he admit he has been doing wrong. You calculate the probabilities). Particularly if, as some of you like to imply, he actually has some money stashed away that would be at risk - That would mean he'd have both the resources and the motivation to push such a thing.

I have no doubt that EDs business documents stand up to scrutiny, and as far as I can gather he is quite aware of the idea (note the "Can't do that - that'd be illegal" reponse to different suggestions that he mess with iCP2 money and somesuch), but if the accusation would be deemed to have enough substance to be worthy of investigation, it'd mean a shitload of extra work for ED. And although he'd come out clean in the other end, that is not much consolation when the pandora business and eventual followup machine would have had to be shelved long ago due to lack of time and possibly being barred from trading during investigation. At least around here, the accusation that one company would undermine another by spreading untrue information is one such thing that would warrant investigation (although I'm probably using the wrong term here - It is probably not "defamation" when talking business legalities). We'd want to avoid that. Really, we would.

I see that WizardStan has added a short response in the same vein. Exactly that.

It is kind of darkly amusing how many of you will paint Craig to be this psychopathic or sociopathic character who "enjoys screwing other people over" and whatnot, and still hasn't spared a thought to what would be his next step. 

 

[kasp]

Especially considering he would have to prove it to be untrue and I think he might struggle with that

He would only have to prove it to be untrue in court, it doesn't take nearly so much evidence to make problems for the people involved. Most lawyers probably wouldn't take it, but I'm sure there's one or two that like free money and have some free time between actual cases.

No lawyer would touch it, even if they had nothing better to do.  An international case for defamation based off an obscure forum post.  What would the damages be like 5000 dollars tops?

Since Criag has run two companies into the ground both with vanishing money and his different conflicting statements on the progress of things which turns out to be lies the burden of proof he would have to produce is much higher. Since there is a trail you can base your assertions off.  However all this can be avoided by just adding I believe or it appears in front of everything

 

[WizardStan]

No lawyer would touch it, even if they had nothing better to do.  An international case for defamation based off an obscure forum post.  What would the damages be like 5000 dollars tops?

Who cares what the damages are? The lawyer gets paid for his time either way.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

^ At least all of us can meet for free in England or somewhere when summoned to be witnesses

 

[moxie]

Especially considering he would have to prove it to be untrue and I think he might struggle with that

He would only have to prove it to be untrue in court, it doesn't take nearly so much evidence to make problems for the people involved. Most lawyers probably wouldn't take it, but I'm sure there's one or two that like free money and have some free time between actual cases.

No lawyer would touch it, even if they had nothing better to do.  An international case for defamation based off an obscure forum post.  What would the damages be like 5000 dollars tops?

Since Criag has run two companies into the ground both with vanishing money and his different conflicting statements on the progress of things which turns out to be lies the burden of proof he would have to produce is much higher. Since there is a trail you can base your assertions off.  However all this can be avoided by just adding I believe or it appears in front of everything

And this is based on your extensive workings within the british legal system, I understand?

The point is not what Craig has actually done or not done, the point is what he can convince a court of being necessary to investigate. With the help of some lawyer who can help with the necessary legalese wranglings. If he claims that the money is indeed gone, to Germany, to his former trusted partner who betrayed him, took the money and is now spreading lies about him on his own website, then the court would have to investigate this in some sort of way.  Of course he wouldn't convince any of us, but he won't need to do that - He'd only have to convince a magistrate who has never seen or heard about him before. Isn't this his great skill - Convincing new people?

 

[kasp]

They would be two different issues entirely. If Craig is claiming ED still has the money he would have to prove it.


For Craig to prove defamation he would have to prove there is no basis for the statements however he has run two companies in the ground with vanishing money and thousands of people out of pocket. The two issues would"t get mixed.


Anyways I think no one will hear from Craig again to be honest. Would be stupid for him to start poking fires in the position he is in. I am positive he has done a few illegal things with Pandora and icp2.

 

[moxie]

Still you are assuming that Craig does things in a rational way, or that he is actually personally aware that he is the one that is at fault and at risk of losing such a challenge. And you are working within your own knowledge of what has gone down during the last years. A court would not have that knowledge, and would not necessarily place a very heavy burden of proof on Craig to begin with. 

And read again: The problem isn't that it would have to be proven that ED owes Craig money (we are all fairly convinced that that would never happen) - The problem is the amount of trouble ED would have to go through in the process of investigating that question. And this would be compounded by a defamation challenge or whatever you call it - It isn't defamation, I know, it is what happens when a company is spreading misinformation about another company. It has another proper legal name, but read what I mean instead.

 

[hedwards]

We had every reason to suspect that Craig's delivery date would be missed spectacularly, his promises about video documentation and transparency would be bogus, his promises about letting the community decide about things (in particular, the keyboard layout) would be false, and that he would piss off many of his customers and team members in the process.

We had no reason to suspect that he would eventually just give up and cancel the project altogether.

With hindsight it's always easy to predict the present, but I like to think that there was a chance that the iCP2 would not have become a failure, but rather a successful, yet delayed project.

Anyway, I think we are now entitled to a breakdown of where the money went, what is left, what might be recuperated, and what is lost.

Indeed, I almost backed the iCP2 during that last push, then I had a sort of vague feeling that it was a bad idea. I can't recall why I felt that way, it certainly wasn't based upon anything I can put my finger on.

But, I remember having this feeling like I was going to be buying it only because of the hype and that I wasn't evaluating the ability of Craig to fllow through

I don't particularly like being right about that, but I hope that ED finds a way of making something similar to this. I'd love to have a keyboard for my Android phone.

 

[ZXDunny]

Dear Dunny, you're not so smart as you think.

Yes, I am.

You were not "lucky enough to get Pandora in the first batch". YOU were just a DECOY for all others, just a "business loss" for Craig's real plan.

Not really - at that point, Craig's reputation was spotless. So I don't think you could really attach any blame to me for Ramboky's (and others) loss.

Btw, just a few weeks ago, you wanted to buy a cheaper battery for Pandora from Craig, "old pall"!  As I remember, only reason why you didn't, was that ED said to you that those batteries are probably half power than new ones. So much about "careful research" and "no way in hell" you trade with Craig.

Reading comprehension fail on your part. You're forgiven, English obviously isn't your first language.

That was in response to an email from Craig, where I feigned interest in order to get prices which I then released to the forum. If I buy batteries or case parts, they're going to be from ED - unless I could get them for a decent price from Craig's fire-sale. As it was, I needn't have bothered. The likelihood that Craig would deliver was high; he was desperate for money at that point.

D.

 

[vcoleiro1]

I feel for those that ordered an ICP1+ICP2 from the  KS.   Those that ordered the ICP1 alone were lucky enough to get them, however, those that ordered an ICP1 + ICP2 together had to wait for the ICP2 to be released, as the plan was they would ship together. Now they don't get an ICP1 either - Hard to find an excuse for not at least providing that - surely they were made with the first round of KS ICP1's ?

 

[ramboky]

@ZXDunny, you're as obvious as you are boring. Go prop up your ego elsewhere.

@Moxie: While I get (and respect) your motivation, I can't say I really understand your continual concern about ED being sued because of our comments here. ED seems pretty careful with what he does and doesn't say, I doubt anything he's posted publicly can't be easily proven. And anything we say really has nothing to do with him. Even if he were to be sued the onus would be on Craig to prove not only that ED's statements were untrue but also that they caused fiscal damages. ED doesn't really have to do anything in that scenario as Craig can prove neither.

And all that aside, while there's no smoking gun the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming - Craig has ripped off his backers. Unless he suddenly turns up with the cash he was supposed to use for molds, cases, clamps, nubs etc (or all the missing parts) the only possibly explanation is that it's gone. And the only way it can be gone is if Craig took it. Whether that falls under the definition of fraud we can leave to the lawyers (though it almost certainly does) but it is unquestionably dishonest and Craig has without doubt, lied.