iCP2: They're throwing in the towel.

[ramboky]

The latest comment by James Kendle on Kickstarter is saying that  "Craig has also sent out an email saying that the OP LTD (UK) is being struck off". Looks like he's winding things up.

 

[vcoleiro1]

@ramboky

The only saving grace is that it's Link that received and disbursed the money, and I'm hoping it will be Link that receives the remaining money and disburses it.   ie hopefully Craig never touched/touches much of the cash.

As for  OP Ltd being struck off, the thread on that is here:  http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14913-openpandora-ltd-uk-struck-off-email/

 

[ramboky]

@ramboky

The only saving grace is that it's Link that received and disbursed the money, and I'm hoping it will be Link that receives the remaining money and disburses it.   ie hopefully Craig never touched much of the cash.

I certainly hope so. Although a comment by MWeston suggests both he and Link weren't able to get a straight answer from Craig regarding the cases, swivel clamps, keymats etc which implies he was in charge of delivering them and potentially had control of funds for them. The molds for cases were quoted at $45k in the kickstarter which is a significant chunk of the money. And a comment from ED states he'll be returning unused PCB manufacturing money to whichever account Craig chooses - which I assume would be his own.

All that is just speculation though. Hopefully this will unravel over the coming weeks.

 

[kasp]

Still you are assuming that Craig does things in a rational way, or that he is actually personally aware that he is the one that is at fault and at risk of losing such a challenge. And you are working within your own knowledge of what has gone down during the last years. A court would not have that knowledge, and would not necessarily place a very heavy burden of proof on Craig to begin with. 

And read again: The problem isn't that it would have to be proven that ED owes Craig money (we are all fairly convinced that that would never happen) - The problem is the amount of trouble ED would have to go through in the process of investigating that question. And this would be compounded by a defamation challenge or whatever you call it - It isn't defamation, I know, it is what happens when a company is spreading misinformation about another company. It has another proper legal name, but read what I mean instead.

There is rational and then there is suicidal.  Considering Craig owes ED a lot of money for the 1 Ghz preorders it would be nuts for him to try anything legal.  That is on top of the sheer costs of an international court case and the costs will become staggering.  Lawyers aren't cheap and he would be looking at least 5000 grand making it happen and even then he would have a fairly weak case.

ED has nothing to worry about and he keeps himself very restrained considering all that Craig has put him through.  If I was ED I would have taken the money Craig gave him as a payment towards the 1 Ghz devices and he would be well within his rights to do that.  Criag would whinge and moan about how ED has ripped off the ICP people but in all honesty if ED does give that money back does anyone at this stage does anyone really believe the money would go back to the backers?  It will vanish into another one of Craigs black holes and most probably he will blame legal costs, then again he might blame some unknown production costs.        

 

[vcoleiro1]

I hope ED does not send any cash back to Craig. Not simply because of the obvious reasons, but, IMO that would be illegal. The ICP2 KS is owned by Product 3 - Links company, not Craig. That's why Link received the initial KS cash and should be the one to obtain any refund cash for disbursement.

 

[ramboky]

I hope ED does not send any cash back to Craig. Not simply because of the obvious reasons, but, IMO that would be illegal. The ICP2 KS is owned by Product 3 - Links company, not Craig. That's why Link received the initial KS cash and should be the one to obtain any refund cash for disbursement.

If Craig was given the funds by Link to pay for production, then Craig gave them to ED then ED can only give them back to Craig. And that seems to be what he's saying: http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14882-theyre-throwing-in-the-towel/?view=findpost&p=288865/URL]

 

[vcoleiro1]

I hope ED does not send any cash back to Craig. Not simply because of the obvious reasons, but, IMO that would be illegal. The ICP2 KS is owned by Product 3 - Links company, not Craig. That's why Link received the initial KS cash and should be the one to obtain any refund cash for disbursement.

If Craig was given the funds by Link to pay for production, then Craig gave them to ED then ED can only give them back to Craig. And that seems to be what he's saying: http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14882-theyre-throwing-in-the-towel/?view=findpost&p=288865/URL]

He never says he got the money from Craig. Even if he did, since were practically in a liquidation, legally he still may have to give it straight to Link.

Here was links comment below.  As an aside, I remember asking Craig myself why he didn't wait one more month so as to launch the KS from his own UK company.  I remember he gave a pretty weak answer, I wonder about that now.

An interesting past thread: http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/13101-question-4-request-for-communication-for-the-icp2-team/

"Hello Everyone,

This is Mark Linkhorst, not Craig, not Michael Weston. I'm here because my email address has been made public. This project is rolling along, slowly but surely.

In no way is this an update. I apologize for even getting involved with this project at this point, because had Craig waited just one more month, this headache would be all his and he could have just done it all within the UK.

Drammurt, I was open with you in my email answering all of your questions. I don't see that as a reason to go throwing my email address out around the internet. We are communicating, perhaps not to what everyone expects on a weekly or monumental basis in terms of the projects progression.

Product 3 LLC's mission was to disburse funds to all appropriate parties for the design, manufacture, and fulfillment of this project. That happened before the end of 2012, so the business when it began was temporary, there was no need to stay operating for another year."

 

[ramboky]

^ That's true, he didn't say directly say he got the money from Craig, but it was clear Craig would be nominating the bank account to return the money, which means Craig must have been responsible for it and almost certainly transferred it to ED. Under those circumstances it would be illegal for ED to give the money to anyone else, including Link. But again, I'm just speculating.  

OP UK isn't in liquidation because no one here ever went after their money, he's just shutting it down.

 

[vcoleiro1]

^ yes, but Link did say from memory, apart from the above , that he made sure the money went to the right people directly. It was in response from memory to people being concerned Craig was going to handle the money.  

All that aside, what actually happened is any ones guess.  

It would be nice if ED clarified who he got the money from.

In a liquidation , the money trail is followed , so no, its not as straight forward as you suggest.  

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

The fact that link has not posted anything here yet is telling.


I hope he did not get screwed by craig or something.


If possible ed should not give craig back any icp2 money, though legally he may have to. Hopefully link will respond in time unless hes avouding a shitstorm.

 

[TrashyMG]

I've been meaning to call Link, he's pretty much my neighbor as he lives only 20 minutes away from me.. Funny thing is,  I never met him person until a few weeks before PAX East this year. 

One thing I do know he's always busy, He does a bit of traveling all the time with his other business ventures.

Personally I didn't want to bug him until all this calms down a bit and perhaps more official word comes out.

Edit: Honestly I really don't want to pressure him, while we've talked about some behind the scenes things before over a beer or two before.. I'm not the type that spreads information that was meant to be said in confidence. So I'm not putting myself in the position to be a middleman for gossip. If Link wants to address the boards, I believe he will in good time.

 

[WizardStan]

If I were he I'd have spent the weekend drunk throwing darts at a board with Craig's picture on it.

But that's how I spend every weekend.

 

[ZXDunny]

@ZXDunny, you're as obvious as you are boring. Go prop up your ego elsewhere.

I'm enjoying it just here thanks, and shall continue to do so.

And now a valid response to someone's post is considered "obvious" and "boring" in your eyes? Why, sir, I do get the feeling that you're sinking now!

D.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

^^^^Give it up Dunny.

 

[ZXDunny]

^^^^Give it up Dunny.

Not a chance

D.

 

[ramboky]

And now a valid response to someone's post is considered "obvious" and "boring" in your eyes? Why, sir, I do get the feeling that you're sinking now!

No, your childish trolling and smug insults are obvious and boring, just as your latest couple of responses are. 

Honestly, you're the most pathetic type of troll. No creativity, nothing clever, nothing to raise a chuckle. No imagination whatsoever.

Anyway, there's no reasoning with people like you so I'll add you to my ignore list and leave you be.

In a liquidation , the money trail is followed , so no, its not as straight forward as you suggest.  

My point is OP UK Ltd is not being liquidated, it's being struck off at Craig's request. The process is different and unless I'm mistaken he'll have very little to account for if no one objects. Basically, if no one in the UK steps forward Craig will walk away Scott free, just as he did with the Pandora.

 

[hailrazer]

Enough with the back and forth Off-Topic childish Internet bickering. 

 

[DisgruntleElf]

Finally, another project to be rescued by ED?Queue up please.

No way.I don't even want to start thinking about discussing with Craig about licenses, case, design, etc.And I certainly have enough other things to do.

Why would you need to deal with Craig? The business end was held by Link not Craig. Knowing Craig he probably never patented the iCP2. The only member of the team anyone would have to do business with is MWeston to acquire his designs. Heh! The best revenge would be to make the iCP2 a success and not pay Craig a cent. His blood would boil.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

^^^It sure would boil.

 

[kasp]

I think ED has had enough experience on saving one of Craig's projects.  I don't think any human could save two of Craigs projects without losing their sanity and faith in humanity.