iCP2: They're throwing in the towel.

[Wrath Of Khan]

Has Link made a statement to this yet?

If he starts acting strange too, I go back to my theory, that Craig somehow managed to get the mob involved...

No statement from link yet asfaik, quite telling actually. I feel he got fucked by craig somehow.

I don't begrudge link one bit. Problem is who or how is any money gonna be re-couped from the icp2 remaining parts.

Has Link made a statement to this yet?

If he starts acting strange too, I go back to my theory, that Craig somehow managed to get the mob involved...

Stefan Eriksson, anyone ?

Yeah, the gizmondo guy? Thats craig... but he's got an um.. nissan leaf instead of a ferrari

 

[skeezix]

NSFW waste of time reply:

Links been online (today even).

I imagine every time he reaches for the keyboard to make a statement it turns out

'fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck shit' and he loses interest

jeff

(well, I thought it was funny, but I only slept 2 hours last night)

 

[Timstertoo]

I can imagine him not wanting to say anything on a public forum before he is comfortable about his legal position.

It will be good though if he comes up with his side of the story or at least a "sorry guys, not in a position to talk yet but as soon as I can I will"

Link is not the enemy and I'm pretty confident that the people who will still be around these boards after the Craig/ICP2 clusterfuck dies down agree with me.

On a side note, is it ok to say Craig is an asshole yet?

 

[EvilDragon]

It's too early to make a statement. We need to first find out how much money there's still left here, and as Product 3 LLC doesn't even exist anymore, Link needs to find out what will happen now and how it will happen. Until then, I would strongly suggest he gives any hints to the public if they are not 100% assured.

 

[moxie]

The point is not what Craig has actually done or not done, the point is what he can convince a court of being necessary to investigate. 

Unfortunately for Craig, it is rather easy to prove that he double-crossed people with his version of "upgrade" that do not have nothing with ED. And it alone testifies about his character and business habits.

His business habits are unbelievably irregular for any ordinary subject that should investigate his books. And so on... He can steal some time of ED because if conffronted, ED  will need to argue what has happened, but, still, here are literately thousands of witnesses that will help  and... truth is only one.

Your trust in the fairness and benevolence of the justice system makes me feel all warm and tingly inside (Oh, and that goes for kasp, too) Not to mention your trust in their people skills - Craig may fool 2000 kickstarter backers from all over the worlds, and some of them he's fooled twice or trice, but the magistrates are of a sterner stock and will never be hoodwinked! Ah

I don't know - I'm just more of a "better safe than sorry" kind of guy. And I've seen fairly close up what kind of damage a socially talented sociopath can do when he sets his mind to it (not to me personally, though), and particularly if they set their mind to playing the legal/bureaucratic system. I just think it'd be wiser to not leave any sort of possible opening for that kind of person to grab on to, should Craig turn out to fit that description. Since you all seem to have decided he does, I would think you might think the same. 

But, well. I suppose I over-worry

 

[ramboky]

@Moxie, while I agree you over-worry, it's pretty clear your heart is in the right place. 

Which isn't to say they don't care. As mentioned, the goodwill of people investing in projects is their livelihood.
Just because they aren't legally responsible doesn't mean they have no interest in the continued trust in funding projects.

Their terms are written to ensure they have no legal responsibility. They've been contacted multiple times by multiple people throughout the ICP2 Kickstarter and everyone has received the same response - it's not our responsibility, contact the project creator. Which is a polite was of saying it's your problem, fuck off.

They're raking in enough money and the hype is still so high I really don't think they give a crap at the moment. If it starts affecting their bottom line, then I'm sure they'll start to pay attention.  

It's too early to make a statement. We need to first find out how much money there's still left here, and as Product 3 LLC doesn't even exist anymore, Link needs to find out what will happen now and how it will happen. Until then, I would strongly suggest he gives any hints to the public if they are not 100% assured.

I'm curious how that will work too. With Product 3 LLC wound up, who can legally take responsibility for the money? I guess there a lot of questions which will need to be answered over the next few weeks/months.

 

[vcoleiro1]

I noticed Link was logged in about 12 hours ago.  Give him some time, he'll need to investigate fully before he comes back to us on the financial situation.

I know he has some of the cash himself, he had transffered some money to his ithic company when Product 3 closed. The money was for US shipment, I remember he said about 50/50 was the ratio between US and rest of world backers. So he should have sent about 1000 x $12 = $12,000 to his account as a rough guess.

 

[skeezix]

He probably has a pile of email from people trying to find out w-t-f.

Hopefully he can just 'please talk to craig' most of it :/

jeff

 

[elwing]

Hopefully he can just 'please talk to craig' most of it :/

Is that the new "Talk to the hand" phrase?

 

[kasp]

The point is not what Craig has actually done or not done, the point is what he can convince a court of being necessary to investigate. 

Unfortunately for Craig, it is rather easy to prove that he double-crossed people with his version of "upgrade" that do not have nothing with ED. And it alone testifies about his character and business habits.

His business habits are unbelievably irregular for any ordinary subject that should investigate his books. And so on... He can steal some time of ED because if conffronted, ED  will need to argue what has happened, but, still, here are literately thousands of witnesses that will help  and... truth is only one.

Your trust in the fairness and benevolence of the justice system makes me feel all warm and tingly inside (Oh, and that goes for kasp, too) Not to mention your trust in their people skills - Craig may fool 2000 kickstarter backers from all over the worlds, and some of them he's fooled twice or trice, but the magistrates are of a sterner stock and will never be hoodwinked! Ah

I don't know - I'm just more of a "better safe than sorry" kind of guy. And I've seen fairly close up what kind of damage a socially talented sociopath can do when he sets his mind to it (not to me personally, though), and particularly if they set their mind to playing the legal/bureaucratic system. I just think it'd be wiser to not leave any sort of possible opening for that kind of person to grab on to, should Craig turn out to fit that description. Since you all seem to have decided he does, I would think you might think the same. 

But, well. I suppose I over-worry

The legal system isn't designed to be fair at all,  it is designed to keep order.  Fairness doesn't come into the equation.

The reason I know a bit about the law and how the laws work is that I am completely surrounded by lawyers. They explain the in's and outs of it and they think it is interesting (It isn't) but I still pay attention.

The fact is if the legal system was fair every backer could get their pound of flesh from Craig or make sure he could pay it in the future.  The fact is since it's such pissy amounts for each backer it isn't really worth anyone's while to chase it up.  Where Craig will get fucked is if the police get involved because they don't give a shit about that distinction. 

The same applies to Craig chasing an international civil suit against someone making an observed fact about Craig's company.  Even if he did win the costs alone would dwarf whatever settlement he got.  All you need to do is say I believe Craig is a scammer and it becomes opinion rather than fact and almost impossible to get a conviction anyway.

I believe and it appears, are very handy words to know in the legal world

 

[Rockthesmurf]

The point is, will it change anything?

 
You can ask the same thing for this whole thread. Messages on boards won't change anything. Yet people feel the need to speak out.

Ha, of course not, it was actually just a little bit of humour. You must be living on another planet if you think that the majority of times people post on a forum are to change anything though... head down the pub, listen to people blowing off steam about the latest political scandal, sure they could get a political education, run for office, campaign, make the world a better place, but that isn't what most people want to do, just have a little moan, get a bit off their chest!

 

[Klumpen]

This calls for immediate discussion!

https://www.youtube.com/embed/5P2jJdrz9bY?feature=oembed

 

[EvilDragon]

No worries, I'm in contact with him and get instant replies via mail, we're working this out as good as possible.

 

[vcoleiro1]

No worries, I'm in contact with him and get instant replies via mail, we're working this out as good as possible.

Are you in contact with Craig or is it Link?

 

[PokeParadox]

No worries, I'm in contact with him and get instant replies via mail, we're working this out as good as possible.

Are you in contact with Craig or is it Link?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Link.

 

[EvilDragon]

Yes, with Link.

Craig never replies any emails when you ask how much money is left (never did that in Pandora times as well).

 

[vcoleiro1]

I hope Link is having better coms luck with Craig

 

[EvilDragon]

I hope Link is having better coms luck with Craig

Nope, at least not yet.

 

[vcoleiro1]

^ Well , I'm glad to see things are at least moving forward between you and Link.

 

[ekianjo]

I hope Link is having better coms luck with Craig

Nope, at least not yet.

How surprising