How's it going? (2012-03-05)

[Lockenlord]

Naw, gomocecuaist is just typing on dvorac or something. Maybe it has something to do with computer-numpads being arranged in a different way than phone-numpads or ED being tired but I prefer to think that he's just sending messages from the future and we'll see our Pandoras in like half a year.

 

[Da Dude]

If 300 have been produced. This means 150 to new customers and 150 to first preorderers????

 

[pubzombie]

Depends on what preorder U R and perhaps where U preordered from - I think??

 

[WizardStan]

If 300 have been produced. This means 150 to new customers and 150 to first preorderers????

Somewhere between 200 to new customers/100 to old, and 260 to new/40 to old, depending on how business goes. Based on the limited information I have on the project, a 1:1 ratio could theoretically work, but there'd be no room for error, and we know how much the Pandora project loves room for error.

 

[Carlos FL]

As ED described in painfully full detail here, the worst case scenario is a ratio of 1 old / 2 new orders. This ratio gets better (higher), if more old preorderers go premium.

 

[Arkay Firestar]

Why would OP want to ship any of our old orders at this point? That money was used up a long time ago. From their standpoint it'll be much better to ship only new units, or upgrades, as that's all new revenue. I would imagine my early 2009 pre-order, if it EVER ships, won't ship until 2013. I'm not expecting a unit, and I advise the 2008-2009 pre-orderers not to either.

 

[EvilDragon]

Why would OP want to ship any of our old orders at this point? That money was used up a long time ago. From their standpoint it'll be much better to ship only new units, or upgrades, as that's all new revenue.

Sure it is. But that wouldn't be nice, would it?


It would've been easier to file insolvency and restart the production in Germany with a new company... but that would probably piss off a lot of you guys.


Or we could tell you all to either pay for the full upgrade or get a refund.


But that's also not what I want.


Years ago we made the deal with you for a Pandora at a certain price. You've all been so patient and supportive. So the least I want to do is give it to you for the same price as fast as possible.


Any upgrades or additional payments should be voluntarily, not forced.


Sure, every bit of money helps us a lot, but I wouldn't want to force you to give us more money.

 

[JackTheKnife]

Why would OP want to ship any of our old orders at this point? That money was used up a long time ago. From their standpoint it'll be much better to ship only new units, or upgrades, as that's all new revenue.

Sure it is. But that wouldn't be nice, would it?


It would've been easier to file insolvency and restart the production in Germany with a new company... but that would probably piss off a lot of you guys.


Or we could tell you all to either pay for the full upgrade or get a refund.


But that's also not what I want.


Years ago we made the deal with you for a Pandora at a certain price. You've all been so patient and supportive. So the least I want to do is give it to you for the same price as fast as possible.


Any upgrades or additional payments should be voluntarily, not forced.


Sure, every bit of money helps us a lot, but I wouldn't want to force you to give us more money.

Ed, how much it will costs me to move my order from Craig's hands to yours?

 

[moxie]

You know it's a typo seeing as the three button is right next to the nine button.

It's not on my keyboard. Is that a common european layout? I'd been wondering why in firefox the key combos to switch tabs are ctrl-3 and ctrl-9.

I can't vouch for gomocecuaists keyboard layout, but I'd bet that the actual commands to switch tabs is C-<pageup> and C-<pagedown>. Which, on a keypad, is on the 3 and 9 keys when no numlock on.

 

[levi]

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Great to hear things are rolling. Good that things are worked out solid. Better quality than speed. And frankly It is not slow at all. Even with 50-100 per day that would mean that a new order can have a pandora in 4-8 weeks or se.


Good job, and thanks a lot for finding time for the update even in such a high pressure time!

So that is all there is? Only 400 new preorders? As I'm one of then I am guessing that i'll get my Pandora soon

/sigh


To clarify, as I understand it, new orders will go out before all old preorders have been shipped, so you can take no estimates as to the preorder queue size from the lead time on new orders, and no estimate on lead time from the number of units shipped to ED.

 

[Carlos FL]

Why would OP want to ship any of our old orders at this point? That money was used up a long time ago. From their standpoint it'll be much better to ship only new units, or upgrades, as that's all new revenue.

Sure it is. But that wouldn't be nice, would it?


It would've been easier to file insolvency and restart the production in Germany with a new company... but that would probably piss off a lot of you guys.


Or we could tell you all to either pay for the full upgrade or get a refund.


But that's also not what I want.


Years ago we made the deal with you for a Pandora at a certain price. You've all been so patient and supportive. So the least I want to do is give it to you for the same price as fast as possible.


Any upgrades or additional payments should be voluntarily, not forced.


Sure, every bit of money helps us a lot, but I wouldn't want to force you to give us more money.

Wow.


How I love to be part of this community. What ED just said is exactly how I would feel and what I would do, if I was in his position. Ethics and doing what is right is placed ahead of the profit motive. This is precisely the reason why I am not asking for a refund. I want to keep my side of the deal, because I see them all working their hardest to keep their side of the deal, too (yes, Craig does too, though he is not as skillful with the quill ). And this will not change, because our motivation comes from our set of values, not from a momentary evaluation of the most advantageous course of action.


I am really happy to see that there are enough of us to make such a large project work after all. Years ago (before the Internet) this would not have been possible. See, the majority around us are either ethically weak, or have what I consider a wrong set of values, putting their own benefit or personal advantage ahead of doing what is right. These people consider us suckers and we are constantly having to defend ourselves from them and they still find ways to take advantage from us (think CC).


It is only because of our shared values that this project has not died. We don't expect ED and Craig to be Mother Theresa. They still have to make ends meet and this is what the Rebirth project is about. They may disagree about how much LTD should pay GmbH for each new unit, but both want the project to survive and both stated that the pre-orders will be delivered, so I know they will work something out. They also know that we are holding to our word and not pulling out, and we are even paying extra, if we can, for a small speed-up. This relationship of trust is fairly uncommon and I cherish it very much.


This may have started as a bunch of geeks trying to make or acquire a unique pocket PC for gaming or for work (my case), but the trials and tribulations of the project refined the OP community into something much bigger and stronger, which I hope will last well into the 2nd and 3rd generation of this machine.

 

[Carlos FL]

And to top up what I said, here is another reason to honour your word: "life’s too short to work with dicks."

 

[GuSec]

Yes, I completely agree with Carlos FL. This project is just amazing. It's so... open source. The ride has been a bumpy one, but I'm amazed it's still a ride. I haven't really thought about the ethics and morals of OP until now. I've always thought of my money as well secured in a trustworthy project, and now I'm not really sure if it was smart. People always told me that I would never get a Pandora, and that I was being ripped off. Pandora is vaporware they said. But of course, I never listened to such foolishness. I always saw my money as an investment in a project by people for people, not an (pre-)order from a company. Now though, it's starting to look like I trusted persons I've never met in an almost naive fashion. I trusted OP ridiculously much. But I'm happy to have done so. Something with open source is just so... magical. I still trust you guys. And I'm still waiting!


Still waiting for that upgrade email too, I'm more willing to give you my share of funding for an upgrade than ever. I'm just a student, so it's not going to be much at all, but I guess it will add up! A bumpy ride, lacking funds, but...a great community. In the end, it's all worth it. Good luck ED, Craig and the rest, you deserve and you need it!

 

[armedneutrality]

Yes, I completely agree with Carlos FL. This project is just amazing. It's so... open source. The ride has been a bumpy one, but I'm amazed it's still a ride. I haven't really thought about the ethics and morals of OP until now. I've always thought of my money as well secured in a trustworthy project, and now I'm not really sure if it was smart. People always told me that I would never get a Pandora, and that I was being ripped off. Pandora is vaporware they said. But of course, I never listened to such foolishness. I always saw my money as an investment in a project by people for people, not an (pre-)order from a company. Now though, it's starting to look like I trusted persons I've never met in an almost naive fashion. I trusted OP ridiculously much. But I'm happy to have done so. Something with open source is just so... magical. I still trust you guys. And I'm still waiting!


Still waiting for that upgrade email too, I'm more willing to give you my share of funding for an upgrade than ever. I'm just a student, so it's not going to be much at all, but I guess it will add up! A bumpy ride, lacking funds, but...a great community. In the end, it's all worth it. Good luck ED, Craig and the rest, you deserve and you need it!

Well, what do you know, some people being civil and respectful... Appreciative, even.


Nobody expected that! [falls out of chair]


Thanks, guys. Glad to see the side of reason also represented from time to time. Much less depressing!

 

[pubzombie]

I think many people from the classic preorder time feel the same. OP has always first and foremost been a business idea, and posts from the last few days have reenforced that case.


Really everything else is secondary to that fact but goes to making it all a very interesting story.

 

[TrashyMG]

Once I hear the details on how to upgrade my Craig's shop batch 1 pre-order, I will definitely cough up more money.. I already have Pandora I got when the 7-day premium deals started, but kept my original order just to be more supportive.


Never has one device kept my attention for so long.. I use it every day and look forward to trying to get more applications working on it.

 

[PowerGod]

mmm, reading about the corrections of some problems in the production run... after all I think it is not so bad waiting some more

 

[pubzombie]

@PowerGod,


Yes U have a good point. Perhaps its best to let bugs get ironed out before classic orders go out. It would drive me demented if mine eventually turned up and had a fault. Still the waiting gets worse

 

[double7]

Ed, how much it will costs me to move my order from Craig's hands to yours?

It will cost you your actual queue position and the difference to the full price.


There is no movement of orders due to buisness and contract reasons. You have to cancel your order and place a new order at EDs shop, that will push you to the end of the queue. You wouldn't gain more than longer waiting time and waste of time at craigs shop due to the cancelation handling.


Your queue position is set at it's best. Just imagine that i'm waiting since 2008 and actually it's possible that you could get your pandora before i do get mine.

 

[Arkay Firestar]

Ed, how much it will costs me to move my order from Craig's hands to yours?

It will cost you your actual queue position and the difference to the full price.


There is no movement of orders due to buisness and contract reasons. You have to cancel your order and place a new order at EDs shop, that will push you to the end of the queue. You wouldn't gain more than longer waiting time and waste of time at craigs shop due to the cancelation handling.


Your queue position is set at it's best. Just imagine that i'm waiting since 2008 and actually it's possible that you could get your pandora before i do get mine.

So sorry, but enough of this subtle apologist tone on behalf of OP. We already paid the "full" price. Call it the "extra money needed because of bad luck and planning," but lets not try to make it seem as though whatever they're charging now is the "full" price and that we all have to somehow chip in more. Although I am quite convinced that those of us who don't, who ordered early, are likely to never get the darn things. Kudos to you for your patience since 2008.