Have You Encountered Any Defects On Your Pandora So Far?

[jutleys]

Seems to me that there is still problems with the bezzel bulging i have been reading the forums and i just wanted to know if anyone is looking into this defect or problem its been mentioned from the very first day and now over 700 pandas are out the door and panda has matured i thought this problem would of ironed out by now or is it still bulging out?

 

[Prometheus]

They've said repeatedly that nothing much can be done about the bezel-bowing at this time. The reason it happens is because the painted finish on the case adds some extra thickness (whereas the case was designed before the decision to have a painted finish came up).

 

[jutleys]

i still think this problem needs to be aknowledged cause its clearly being bought up time and time again and the panda is almonst perfected now with the nubs problem perfected aswell confirmed by craigix so it would be a shame for the bulging to remain as a problem i hope it gets sorted by batch 2.

 

[WizardStan]

i still think this problem needs to be aknowledged cause its clearly being bought up time and time again and the panda is almonst perfected now with the nubs problem perfected aswell confirmed by craigix so it would be a shame for the bulging to remain as a problem i hope it gets sorted by batch 2.

how much more "acknowledged" can the problem get than it is now? They've said there isn't anything they can do about it, not in the first 10'000 at any rate.

 

[Exophase]

i just pointed out my opinion, for what i think it would be less biased, more helpful and fair enough to OP and newcomers. Saying 80% of pandora is defective is not close to the truth imo, when the very first preorderers got their pandoras before QC had been enforced. Problems like bad lcd, scratchy nubs and shoulders have been addressed already, and gladly, most of them are supposed to be solved from now on. I have absolutely no interest to hide or underestimate problems, it's a matter of fairness.

The poll is a question of the quality of existing Pandoras, not the quality of Pandoras in the future.

And I don't mean to second guess OP, but there was a statement from ED that the bezel problem was as good as fixed with an assembly procedure change, and now craigix is saying it can't be fixed. There were also statements that the defect rate was 1%, IIRC, which changed to 2% then 5%. This poll suggests something different (I don't doubt the return rate, I just think a lot of people aren't returning theirs for various reasons, so long as they still "work").

However, you could take the view that all the people who are dis-satisfied have voted. It is a self-selected sample, which makes it pretty difficult to re-baseline to represent the total population. All that can be claimed for this is to show how common any one fault was over the others, not the total rate.

I already talked about this, and I think that it's a poor argument with no evidence to support it, sorry. There is nothing to suggest that dissatisfied people would be more likely to vote than satisfied people, especially when human nature is often to prove that waiting for 2 years wasn't a bad idea - people have tendencies to paint their purchases in the best light possible (which is why we have console fanboys). I can't imagine that people who don't have defective Pandoras are less willing to vote in this poll. The only sampling bias is in Pandora owners who are on this board vs those who aren't. Since most have been on this board long before they got their Pandoras I somehow don't think you'll draw a correlation between that and increased incidence in defection rate.

In reality all polls are self-selected, if you give the pollee a choice to participate and they have some meaningful idea on what they're being polled on.

But not really how many faulty units are out there. Unless it comes to the point where it has at least about 300 - 400 votes.

Requiring a 50% sample size is absurd...

 

[EvilDragon]

i just pointed out my opinion, for what i think it would be less biased, more helpful and fair enough to OP and newcomers. Saying 80% of pandora is defective is not close to the truth imo, when the very first preorderers got their pandoras before QC had been enforced. Problems like bad lcd, scratchy nubs and shoulders have been addressed already, and gladly, most of them are supposed to be solved from now on. I have absolutely no interest to hide or underestimate problems, it's a matter of fairness.

The poll is a question of the quality of existing Pandoras, not the quality of Pandoras in the future.

And I don't mean to second guess OP, but there was a statement from ED that the bezel problem was as good as fixed with an assembly procedure change, and now craigix is saying it can't be fixed.

Well, yeah, that was something different. Some bezels didn't have that small hole there, but almost were bent out by 2 - 3mm.
THAT'S what I saw as problem - and that what was fixed with being more careful with the coppertape.

There were also statements that the defect rate was 1%, IIRC, which changed to 2% then 5%. This poll suggests something different (I don't doubt the return rate, I just think a lot of people aren't returning theirs for various reasons, so long as they still "work").

Well, since LCD Cables and Nubs started to fail after a while of usage, it should be pretty straightforward to figure out why the return rate went higher
I got about 6 or 7 back, so that's way better than 5%.

Of course I can't say how many people have defective units and won't return them - but as long as they won't return them, they probably don't consider it as serious enough to render the unit unusable.

However, while you say 50% might be a high quote for a poll - I'd say the current 10% in a thread where you basically ask everyone to tell what's wrong with the unit is definately giving no good results.

 

[Exophase]

Well, yeah, that was something different. Some bezels didn't have that small hole there, but almost were bent out by 2 - 3mm.
THAT'S what I saw as problem - and that what was fixed with being more careful with the coppertape.

I don't fault you for this, but these communication details are useful, beyond the usefulness of subjective claims of improvement.

Well, since LCD Cables and Nubs started to fail after a while of usage, it should be pretty straightforward to figure out why the return rate went higher

Yep, and I hope craigix learned from this not to brag about return rates so soon, maybe they haven't plateaued yet either.

I got about 6 or 7 back, so that's way better than 5%.

You sent them out later too, right? See above comment.

Of course I can't say how many people have defective units and won't return them - but as long as they won't return them, they probably don't consider it as serious enough to render the unit unusable.

I agree entirely, but this poll isn't a question of whether or not the unit is unusable.

However, while you say 50% might be a high quote for a poll - I'd say the current 10% in a thread where you basically ask everyone to tell what's wrong with the unit is definately giving no good results.

I guess we're going to have to settle on a complete disagreement on this one, as far as I'm concerned 10% is a huge sampling, even for the sizes involved.

That's where my criticism resides, the poll is far from how you grade quality, statistically speaking, correctly, unbiased

and once again, not very helpful imo

How you use the poll or indeed even if it has a use has nothing to do with whether or not the poll is biased. What it's polling is very clear. If you don't think that's a good indicator of future quality that's another issue, but it doesn't ever claim to be. The poll being unhelpful is of course your opinion. I think it's very helpful for us, the user base, to know how the real satisfaction/defect rates line up with claims we have been hearing from OP. I'll leave it to you to determine why I might find that helpful.

 

[Azure]

Of course I can't say how many people have defective units and won't return them - but as long as they won't return them, they probably don't consider it as serious enough to render the unit unusable.

I noticed defects in my Pandora on day 1 and would have returned it much sooner due to dodgy controls, gunk on my display, and WiFi issues (as opposed to waiting over a month and being forced to return it once it developed LCD problems), but what kept me from doing so was the return time. I'd have to ship my precious Pandora internationally to a company that with a terrible track record of getting a product out (almost 2 years for an *incomplete* order -- still no TV-Out Cable). With it always seeming like you guys are waiting for parts X, Y, or Z, and production always seeming like it is halted, who knows how long it would take to get a repaired/replaced unit back. I don't know about others, but I took solace in the fact that I finally physically had my Pandora and was no longer tied in any way, shape, or form to all the bad luck you guys have had with getting this handheld out in the wild

What I fear at the moment is Craig's assumption that nearly half of returned units were tampered with and what this means for how these returns will be dealt with; it almost seems like you guys aren't willing to accept the complete lack of quality control some of these units underwent in the beginning (gunk on the LCD, missing/loose screws, wonky hinges, etc.)

 

[b._.o._.b]

Definitely an interesting poll. I think this should encourage the OP team to really make an effort to improve their quality control or/and give the users the expertise to fix small errors.

 

[quartercast]

Having no faults doesn't make you ineligible to vote for when you got the device instead of "No faults dammit!" at the bottom, which really shouldn't be there (but the receive date isn't really that useful without a correlation with the rest of the results).

For the third question I wanted to try and correlate "no. of faulty units" with "delivery date". If we knew how many Pandoras were shipped each month, we could compare the defect rate month by month. Hence I've dated the poll until October.

The poll basically shows us WHAT faults people have IF they have faulty units.
But not really how many faulty units are out there. Unless it comes to the point where it has at least about 300 - 400 votes.

Well why not make this poll a sticky then.

What I fear at the moment is Craig's assumption that nearly half of returned units were tampered with and what this means for how these returns will be dealt with; it almost seems like you guys aren't willing to accept the complete lack of quality control some of these units underwent in the beginning (gunk on the LCD, missing/loose screws, wonky hinges, etc.)

It's not just in the beginning. I received my dodgy unit last month. That's two months since pandas started shipping! And on the whole, I agree with your sentiment. I am not in the UK, it is not a trivial matter for me to be shipping my unit back and forth. I would like to know how quickly I'd receive a replacement and that it definitely won't come back with a defective dpad, gaming buttons, nubs and cracked case. For the moment, I'm not convinced that sending my unit back now is a good idea.

 

[torpor]

My opinion about the hardware faults is this: as long as the team are open and honest about getting these things sorted, it doesn't matter.

I knew I would not be getting the *perfect* Pandora because I've been following this project from its inception. This is why I bought two!

I hope that Pandora has a big future, and it will only be the case if we, the customers, get some enjoyment out of the machines.

If there is a Pandora Revision B Model, I'll probably buy another two: I *am* getting enjoyment out of my machines!

However, for all the negatives and detractions such a thread as this one can provide in regards to *what* and *how* the OPT Team work, I will honestly say they are the best hardware manufacturer I've ever had the pleasure to have *such direct contact with* .. and if there is a future of games/fun/toy product development, it is in this open model.

The honesty about faults has to work both ways, if it is going to be so open. We customers/developers for the platform have to continue to try to encourage the *future* of the platform as much as we expect the OPT team to, in my opinion, before we can claim moral superiority about how 'things were managed'.

 

[Eniko]

Other: Mine has a stuck (but not dead) pixel.

 

[quartercast]

My opinion about the hardware faults is this: as long as the team are open and honest about getting these things sorted, it doesn't matter.

They aren't open, they are in dreamland. The dreamland where no returns = no faults.

I knew I would not be getting the *perfect* Pandora because I've been following this project from its inception. This is why I bought two!

I wish I could afford two.

However, for all the negatives and detractions such a thread as this one can provide in regards to *what* and *how* the OPT Team work, I will honestly say they are the best hardware manufacturer I've ever had the pleasure to have *such direct contact with* .. and if there is a future of games/fun/toy product development, it is in this open model.

The honesty about faults has to work both ways, if it is going to be so open. We customers/developers for the platform have to continue to try to encourage the *future* of the platform as much as we expect the OPT team to, in my opinion, before we can claim moral superiority about how 'things were managed'.

The point of this thread is about being honest and open about quality.

 

[Bosbeetle]

So conclusion there are 52 persons that think their pandora is defective. Probably for some of those 52 it is so defective they send it back. For others they can live with the defect.

I think its completly honest by the team to measure the fail rate by the amount of returned units.

52 is not much and if the team sees a decrease in amount of returned units its even better.

Being someone who had 2 pandoras and is waiting for a third I can say build quality has gone up definitely, the nub thing is something that manifested itself in a month or so and turned out to be third party problem but they fixed that issue before they got even 1000 units out. And they told everything here on the boards.

I think thats as open as it gets in the manufacturing world.

I think they are doing a tremendous job and they still manage to give feedback, help and updates themselves even to a whole forum full of whiny little bastards. I haven't experienced a company that's more open, communicative, supportive and in touch with their community yet. I am gratefull for that so I refrain from whining.

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, yeah, that was something different. Some bezels didn't have that small hole there, but almost were bent out by 2 - 3mm.
THAT'S what I saw as problem - and that what was fixed with being more careful with the coppertape.

I don't fault you for this, but these communication details are useful, beyond the usefulness of subjective claims of improvement.

That's true - as it seems we don't get too many RMAs, it seems to be the only way to find out WHAT's bad.

Well, since LCD Cables and Nubs started to fail after a while of usage, it should be pretty straightforward to figure out why the return rate went higher

Yep, and I hope craigix learned from this not to brag about return rates so soon, maybe they haven't plateaued yet either.

True. However, we found out about that problems from the very beginning and fixed it (hopefully) already.

I got about 6 or 7 back, so that's way better than 5%.

You sent them out later too, right? See above comment.

Well, while I sent them out later, I still got the same units.
From the first 99, I got 33.
I shipped them later because we were always waiting for at least 50 to be finished for me before we shipped them to Germany.
Still, there were the same early units in there.

 

[EvilDragon]

Of course I can't say how many people have defective units and won't return them - but as long as they won't return them, they probably don't consider it as serious enough to render the unit unusable.

I agree entirely, but this poll isn't a question of whether or not the unit is unusable.

Never said that - but it might sound like that for newcomers.
There are so many options, so most newcomers probably just browse the first option thinking "Oh my! 80% of the Pandoras are totally brolen!"

However, while you say 50% might be a high quote for a poll - I'd say the current 10% in a thread where you basically ask everyone to tell what's wrong with the unit is definately giving no good results.

I guess we're going to have to settle on a complete disagreement on this one, as far as I'm concerned 10% is a huge sampling, even for the sizes involved.

Well, it is useful for finding out WHAT'S wrong with broken units - but not IF they are broken.
Because this thread mostly appeals to guys which have broken units to vote. The first question is totally biased.

So it would be way more useful without the first question "Is your Pandora broken".
Just a "If your Pandora has defects, what were they?" would make way more sense.

My opinion about the hardware faults is this: as long as the team are open and honest about getting these things sorted, it doesn't matter.

They aren't open, they are in dreamland. The dreamland where no returns = no faults.

This definately is not true. We started to work on the problems before we even HAD an RMA.
As soon as we found out that some LCD cables already failed during assembly (those units haven't been shipped out, of course), we tried to find the problem and found it.

What use would it be to NOT be open?
RMAs do cost us a lot. Not only reputancy but also money.
It wouldn't make sense to NOT try to fix any problems.

However, as long as people don't contact us and return the units, how should we know that some still fail?
Except for that poll now, yes. However, so far the only problems which go seriously high are the ones we are already working on since months and hopefully have fixed.

However, for all the negatives and detractions such a thread as this one can provide in regards to *what* and *how* the OPT Team work, I will honestly say they are the best hardware manufacturer I've ever had the pleasure to have *such direct contact with* .. and if there is a future of games/fun/toy product development, it is in this open model.
The honesty about faults has to work both ways, if it is going to be so open. We customers/developers for the platform have to continue to try to encourage the *future* of the platform as much as we expect the OPT team to, in my opinion, before we can claim moral superiority about how 'things were managed'.

Yes, definately. We don't have such big testing facilities like Apple, etc.
We can't test 700 units for a few months before shipping them.
After all, this is the very first mass production run - no big company would ever SELL those units, but try to figure out if they need more fixes or not.
We cannot afford this. Therefore we do the only thing that makes sense: Trying to fix all problems that appear during and after assembly, fix and return the units and try to prevent those problems in the future.

This only works if people do TELL us what's wrong.

So the poll here isn't a bad idea - but, as said, the first question is unneccessary.
"If your Pandora had hardware defects, what were they?" would've been way better.

 

[mali]

^ Great posts, ED

 

[Giskard1708]

i wonder if OP team had decided to order all pandora parts in one batch only, it'd be too late to fix those issues. Nice decision! Last preorderers have to wait more but are going to get a better device (hard and softwarewise)

Lucky for me I guess, I've been told I'm one of the last in line.

Where do I sign up for the Craiginator 2?

 

[quartercast]

Well, it is useful for finding out WHAT'S wrong with broken units - but not IF they are broken.
Because this thread mostly appeals to guys which have broken units to vote. The first question is totally biased.

So it would be way more useful without the first question "Is your Pandora broken".
Just a "If your Pandora has defects, what were they?" would make way more sense.

The first question is "Does your Pandora suffer from any hardware defects? Yes or no." It's a completely legitimate question, and it's there because that figure is not immediately apparent from the second question's answers. Its also there so that questions 2 and 3 make sense.

^ Great posts, ED

Me thinks ED is warming to this poll

 

[craigix]

76% of Pandoras! It must be true! Apart from the returns show nothing like this.

Actually I've an idea. Pick a console. Make 'impossible to win' thread similar to this. Get equally skewed results.